Rise & Shine - Need Support

[melissag]

3, can you talk with a DB coach? I feel like that might be really helpful.

It sounds to me like your H has a lot of work to do - it is great that he is in IC, and hopefully he will decide to actually dig deeper and it will help him. But there is nothing you can do about that. So, I think you need to decide what is right for you. It is a strong stance to say "no more." Will it make you feel strong and help you detach? Do you think that you can keep it up? You know you can't draw a boundary and then not enforce it . . . are you prepared for that?

It sounds to me like you have already made your decision . . . you want H to stop letting H walk all over you. If you continue to let him, he won't respect you, and more importantly, YOU won't respect you.

[melissag]

Oops, I meant you want to stop H from walking all over you. I have no idea what my sentence up there meant . . . LOL.

[AnotherStander]

For the first time I truly truly understand that H is done. He is gone and feels nothing for me.

This is how he feels RIGHT NOW. That could change tomorrow, or next week, or in a year. It happens all the time. Every reconciled M on these forums had a point where the WAS insisted they were 100% done and there was a 0% chance they would change their mind.

H said he wants the best if both worlds. He wants time with the kids and family time with kids and me and wants to be single and continue his A. His says that our family time is the only thing he and I have left. Without it we will have nothing. H thinks that if we get divorced, we will still have family nights and he will just tell his new girlfriend or wife that she has to be OK with that.

Personally I feel you have to make it clear to him that what he is proposing is not an option. It is not acceptable to you. You are no longer a family and the idea of having "family nights" is preposterous.

We hang out as a family on the weekends and have dinner together at least once on the weekend.

OK, well there are two schools of thought here. One is that you should keep doing it because it's an opportunity to show him what he will miss after D. The other is to stop it, because as long as you keep doing it he'll never learn to miss you. Personally I would stop it.

H will take showers at the house, lay in our bed, and still act like it is his house. He will ask me to pick up things for him at the store if I am going.

I'd put a stop to that too. When my W moved out, I asked her to respect my privacy- to let me know when she was coming over, to knock on the door, etc. Let me ask you this, do you go over to your H's place and let yourself in, shower there and lay around on his bed? No? Then why in the world is it OK for him to do that?

I am a people pleaser so I have a hard time saying no. Especially because it makes me feel needed by him.

Well that's a very honest statement, and I appreciate that you're able to recognize that it's what is going on. Now, do you think this is healthy for you? If you quit doing things to please him, how do you see it changing your sitch? How do you see it affecting you?

[3boymom]

Mel - I actually just called and signed up for some more sessions. My coach has been much more helpful than my IC. I made an appointment for Friday and will get her input. We spoke last week, but that was before H's delusional statements.

[3boymom]

AS - Thank you so much for the honest advice. I busted out laughing at my desk at the thought of walking into his parents house, taking a shower and laying in his bed. What the heck have I been thinking? Actually I know what I have been thinking - if he keeps coming over, it will be as if he did not even leave. I need to wake up and get with reality.

I am an enabler. My parents are horrible with boundaries. They were each deprived as children. Their parents never told them that they loved them. They never received gifts, affection, or attention. So my parents raised us completely differently. They love unconditionally, to the point that they are unable to say no. I grew up with the idea that if you love someone, you performed acts of services to show your love. You go out of your way, no matter the personal sacrifices. I am doing the same things with H. And when I do these things, I except love back despite my daily reminders to myself to have no expectations.

I don't think it is healthy for me. Helping each other out is a benefit of marriage. Our marriage is over. H is going to the OW for all of the other benefits of marriage. H either needs to be in or out. I need to focus on helping with things involving the kids and business stuff. I know that I need to stop the personal help.

H and I started dating the first day of college. He went from his parents home, to living in the same dorm as me. I vividly remember standing in the laundry room of our dorm and helping explain how to do laundry. We have been together ever since and I have been filing this role the entire time. I have to let him go and figure this out on his own.

[3boymom]

H called me at work, which he never does. He appears to be freaking out that I may change things up and that I do not agree with his vision of possible post-divorce life. H wants to be my teammate ... blah blah. He was freaking out about when he can see the kids again, if we can be in the same room with the kids, if we can go to school conferences together.

I told him that I needed some time to think. I cannot give him a answer one way or another at this moment. I need to stay strong. I need to get a good nights sleep, reread the advice everyone has given to me and talk with my DB coach to make an informed decision.

[Pudmuddle]

Hi 3, my H is currently doing the same thing, although he still lives at home. As far as I know he is still seeing AW and continues to enjoy the pleasures of home. Although I have noticed on the phone bill that he does not have many texts or calls going out to her. We never have R talks and he will not see a counselor right now. So we are much in limbo right now and probably for awhile is my guess.
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The positive things I see about what has happened in your sitch lately is that he is willing to see your IC and that he is participating in R talks. He is also showing signs of understanding what it would mean if he were to lose these comforts that you are giving him.

imho, I would say in your sitch that you should lay out some boundaries. But I know that is hard, very hard. I think talking to your coach first is an excellent idea, to get an objective opinion and straighten out your thinking.

My H too, wants to be 'friends' during all this and if we were to D. Since I told him: I don't think I could be friends with him if he were to file because friends don't treat each other like this. And if you were to D me, you would be leaving me not only as my H but as my best friend, he has been very kind to me now. And he has not moved out as I suggested. Since then we have talked about nothing R related and he has shown more interest and sensitivity towards his son.

So all in all, I hope you get to lay down this boundary and feel good about it afterwards. That is key that you feel like you have to do because you want to, not just because others want you to. And that it will give you some peace at night to know that you have stood up for what you need.

I'll be watching 3! I know you are having rough moments, but you still sound so good and positive to me. Keep that spirit up.

[3boymom]

Thanks Pud. If I lay down this boundary, it will be a huge 180 for me. I know that it may lead to the end of our marriage, but honestly it has been over for years. I just did not know it until recently.

You are right, I don't want to be friends with H while he continues to hurt me with OW. He said last night that he was sorry for the A, took full ownership of the A and said that he kicked me to the curb and continued to run over me, which I did not deserve and he has stopped. But then he admits that the A is ongoing, that he continues to do things without thinking/caring about whether it would hurt me and then claimed that it was not an A and that OW is just a best friend (saying that he hates the word affair - maybe because it is against your values/morals before H got wrapped up into the A).

I told H that I understand that people change. And that if he needs to make this change, then I understand. If that is his choice and if he continues to put his happiness and his A over myself and our family, then he needs to deal with the consequences. Pretending that the kids are not in a broken family does not make it any less broken.

[Pudmuddle]

Yes, do what is right for you and your situation. It sounds like you know the outcome could be the end of the M and that is a good thing. If you set a boundary you have to know what the outcomes could be and be ready for it.

At this point in my sitch, this is H's second A and there will have to be a LOT more work for him and us before I would think of taking him back. And of course, your H doesn't like the word affair, because it is WRONG and he now has to redefine the dictionary on what A means! LOL Sometimes I really despise the nuttiness of all this MLC crud.

Sometimes the consequences can shine a light down their narrow tunnel. Sometimes not. Hang in there 3!

[AnotherStander]

I grew up with the idea that if you love someone, you performed acts of services to show your love. You go out of your way, no matter the personal sacrifices. I am doing the same things with H. And when I do these things, I except love back despite my daily reminders to myself to have no expectations.

It's tough to change that behavior, because in a healthy M when a rift develops then the way to solve that is to pursue our spouse, to show them love, to do things for them. But after BD everything changes, the things that worked before are the opposite of what works after BD. Those behaviors are damaging instead of helpful. We have to rewire our brains to see things differently.

I don't think it is healthy for me. Helping each other out is a benefit of marriage. Our marriage is over. H is going to the OW for all of the other benefits of marriage.

Exactly. That's not to say that there's not a chance for M in the future, but it'll be a NEW M. The old one is dead and gone, never to return. You have to quit doing things to try and hang onto that old M.

H called me at work, which he never does. He appears to be freaking out that I may change things up and that I do not agree with his vision of possible post-divorce life.

I'm curious what triggered this in him, did you say something to him or did he get worried on his own? Regardless, this is EXACTLY the kind of reaction you want him to have. He needs to know that HIS way is NOT your way, and that you're not going to be railroaded into his silly cake-eating scenario.

I told him that I needed some time to think.

Good. Don't let him pressure you into responding on HIS timeline, you take as much time as you want. If he says anything in the meantime, just reiterate that you need time and space.

I know that it may lead to the end of our marriage, but honestly it has been over for years. I just did not know it until recently.

Yes, almost all of our M's ended at BD. It takes us all different lengths of time to understand that though. Again I'll say that this doesn't mean there's not a chance for a new M with H in the future, but a big part of healing, detaching and possibly reconciling is accepting that the old M is indeed dead.

and then claimed that it was not an A and that OW is just a best friend

The script is so predictable sometimes. They all say that. Cover a big lie with little lies. Makes sense to the WAS's murky mind.