Figuring this all out

[mustardseed]

First of all, I am sorry if I am forgetting to respond to some of the questions--or if I am repeating myself. I can't see my posts yet since I am on moderation, so I am trying to remember what I have and have not said so far.

DH is coming home from his trip later today so I need to make sure I am in the right frame of mind. I have been thinking about what I have done to contribute to this. Why I am the problem for him and this is what I think so far.

Why he probably thinks of me as lazy.
1) I don't take initiative. Always seeking approval for decisions I make.
2) When he offers to do something I was going to do, I let him. And I usually leave the room so that I don't get annoyed by how he does it.
3) I spend a lot of time on the computer, reading, knitting, or in the garden when he is home. I'm not very available.

Why he thinks I am needy.
1) I don't get out with my friends very much.
2) I am always seeking validation--for everything.

Why he feels so burdened.
1) Most of our lives (finances, friends, kids schooling, housing) is completely dependent on his job--which he hates.
2) My need to discuss every decision makes him feel like it is all on him.
3) When I come up with a plan for our family that I can carry out without him, maybe he feels like I think he is irrelevant? My parents help us out a lot--financially, and I think that is a big problem for him. But right now I don't see an alternative to this.

[mustardseed]

I have been acting "as if" for the most part. I had two moments of weakness. One was right after BD. The day after, I told him I agreed and we should separate. A week later I took it back and said, I want to be with him, but he is right that things aren't working and if he doesn't want to work on the marriage then I won't fight him if he really wants to separate. Then I carried on much better, less bitchy, after doing that. Until a few weeks later when I tried to get close to him. He wasn't mean about rejecting me but he made it clear that he didn't want to confuse things. Before he went away I asked if we could talk about us when he got back. Now I know that is a mistake and I will not bring it up. God help me.

180s I am doing to address the issues in my last post:
LAZINESS:
I am just doing. I am not worrying about if I am annoying him by the way I choose to do what I am doing. If he offers I am now declining his offer with assertiveness. I am no longer running upstairs when he comes home. I am keeping busy by doing other things that don't shut me off from everyone else. I decided to make cooking and cleaning hobbies rather than chores which means I am doing it happily without seeking approval or appreciation.

Neediness:
I am accepting invitations to do things without checking with him first. I am telling him what I am doing rather than asking permission. I am going to join some groups (I joined a church and a choir last year before any of this happened and he seemed supportive of it, although the religious aspect makes him uncomfortable). I am not asking his opinion for anything anymore. I am just going to do what I think I should.

Burden:

This is a tough one. I have struggled finding a better job for years. I am back in school now and optimistic that things will change. Once the semester ends I am going to go gang busters on the job search. I am not going to ask him if he thinks my ideas to take care of things are right. I am going to straight up tell him, this is what I am going to do about this. If he objects with an alternative idea I will say, "Ok, but I want it taken care of by (insert date). If not then I will do what I said I was going to do."

THIS LAST ONE IS STILL A BIG ISSUE FOR THE TIME BEING:
3) When I come up with a plan for our family that I can carry out without him, maybe he feels like I think he is irrelevant? My parents help us out a lot--financially, and I think that is a big problem for him. But right now I don't see an alternative to this.

Until he gets control of his spending or I get a better job I feel my hands are tied. I really feel like if he would just let me fully take over the finances I can get us out of this hole. I know we make more than enough for the lifestyle we have, and with some focus and discipline we can figure out exactly how much more we need for the lifestyle we want. The way things have been for most of our marriage has been based on ignoring. Last spring I decided to take over the bills and separated my income from his so I could do a partial budget. All of my money and a small portion of his is budgeted to make sure needs are met. Everything else gets pissed away. I know he is buying some family focused items, but a lot of it is going to his vices and whims. I think if he would just see how much paying attention to where money is going changes things we could really make some progress. At first separating our money was the best thing I ever did, but now I think it was just another nail in our marital coffin. Now I am asking him for money every pay period to make sure the bills are paid, and he is resenting it. He hates paying bills and before I did this we were always months behind. I think for the time being I have to just leave this one alone. The bills still need to be paid, and if this separation happens we will need a second car and two homes. Until I get a better job I am stuck with keeping things as is for now.

[mustardseed]

He is home. The washing machine was addressed right away. I think I handled it well. I was direct, made no apologies for how I handled it, and said "I know it isn't the way you wanted it handled but it needed to get done." He agreed and the issue was dropped. Then I did his laundry when he ran out to the store. 180s all the way for me since my normal response would have been to ask him if he wanted me to first (my personality flaw). I think when I would ask, he would think I was hinting for him to do it and so my questions felt like nagging. It was a win/win for me, because it got him unpacked quickly so I didn't have to deal with his stuff sitting around for days while I waited for him to do it, and I got to play with my new washing machine some more.

I'm glad he is home. There is still distance. I wanted to hug and kiss him when I saw him but didn't initiate. Neither did he, so I guess things haven't changed. My heart still feels broken, but the anger and frustration is gone--probably because the washing machine issue is finally over. I feel more proactive. I have a certification exam tomorrow so I am studying today, but I made it a point to not hide out all day. I am making soup, watched some movies with the kids, and did some cleaning. He has been in and out, catching up on work. I feel optimistic about my ability to DB right now. Things feel better now that he is back.

[TryingToDo180]

Sounds like you're going on the right direction MS Don't be too hard on yourself though, he's as much to blame as you are and he needs to work on the marriage as well.
Good luck with your exam tomorrow I've got an online exam on health and safety as part of my course. It is going to be purely luck though as I've not done any revision!
I know how you feel about being rejected from hugging and kissing. My H did this to me before he finally left. It's not nice at all. Stay strong and don't take on more than you can chew Rome wasn't built in a day you know, so just take things easy and don't try to change too much too quickly as you won't be able to keep it up. Gradual changes are great and he will notice the little things

[mustardseed]

Thanks TTD180. I messed up again, though. Checks for our joint account came in and he told me he was going to start using his separate account. This sounds like the real issue was when I moved my money to another bank. That must have really hurt him. IDK. Instead of acting "as if" I pushed for talk of the future. Nothing has changed. He doesn't want to talk about it now, but in a few days he says we will. Not holding my breath. I told him I just want to know WHY. I want to know what I did. He said I didn't do anything. The conversation was brief and calm. But I am trying to hold it together with a smile on my face while the kids laugh and play, my stomach is in knots. And he disappeared. Probably went for a walk.

This is too hard. How do you let go? How do you act "as if" when you are falling apart inside. In addition we found out that one of DD's friend's dad's past away this morning of a heart attack. He was around our age, fit, a doctor. That probably made it all worse for him. I know DH thinks he is going to die soon. He keeps talking about it, and this just enhanced it I'm sure. Really, really, really bad timing on my part to bring up talk of the future.

[mustardseed]

I just wanted to repost this here from earlier this week. I thought I posted it in this thread, but I guess I did it in the other thread I started.

My pastor confirmed a lot of what DR seems to teach. It was amazing talking to her and being able to confide in someone about this. She gave me a lot of insight into what he might be dealing with. I don't feel like going into that here, but it seems it is more than just depression that he is dealing with and that I need to lovingly detach and stop making excuses for him. Unfortunately she didn't seem to be as hopeful for my marriage as I had hoped, but no expectations is the name of the game, right?

She told me that for my sanity and for the sake of keeping this household going, I have to make it clear to him that if he offers to take care of something and it isn't done within a specific time frame that I will handle it my own way. This is something I was on the fence about regarding the WM--which is now finally taken care of. I didn't give him a chance to tell me he will handle it again and I know he will hate the way I handled it, but so what. He had 3 months to do it his way and he didn't.

My 180s right now are focusing on pulling myself together so I am not dependent on him. Because right now he is not dependable. It feels counter productive to saving my marriage because my instincts tell me he needs his ego stroked, but that will just be another cheeseless tunnel at this moment. Right now my marriage is not ready to be repaired because I have a lot of work to do before I can be a better wife, and he has a lot of things he needs to deal with--to which he has admitted--but he isn't ready to do so--which he has also made very clear. Me waiting around for him, walking on eggshells, stroking his ego, making things safe for him will not change anything for the better and may make it worse. It's just tough when you love someone so much and you see them hurting. But one mistake I make is I try to push for R talk, and now I realize he is not in any frame of mind to do that. He is suffering. Me trying to get him to focus on "us" is so selfish right now--it is just adding more to his burden. I get that, finally. I think he still loves me but does not have the mental capacity to care for me, which is what I have been begging him to do the past few years. So now I need to care for me, and detach from him, but I also want to be available for when he needs to talk. Detach but be available: Is it possible to do both? I think I have to reread the chapter on depression.

[mustardseed]

I think I just had an aha moment. Not sure exactly, but I think I started all of this. I am to blame.

First by separating our finances. My intention was to try and manage our bills better and starting to budget without having to effect him too much, because I didn't know how it would work out and because I was pretty certain he wouldn't be on board which would leave us in a pickle--again. Once I realized how well the budget worked I wanted to try and get him on board but without pushing the issue too much. He was almost there, and then August/September money surprises hit and even though we rode it out better than we ever had before, but it set me way back and because he hasn't seen the way I have things handled he feels things are as bad as always.

Another thing was in early summer I was feeling down about him not wanting to do anything together I asked if he thought we should be one of those couples who raise the kids together and live together, but are no longer married. I had taken back the suggestion within a couple of hours. He didn't respond at all at the time, and we had a nice night together after the conversation was over.

But I think one of two things happened as a result of these conversations.
#1 I planted a seed. Gave him a get out of jail free card (which I have been thinking might be the case since BD).
or
#2 It really hurt him that I was distancing myself. (Just dawned on me this might be a possibility),

Obviously our marriage was challenged before those things, but the way I handle things are so immature. I think I am compromising, but I am really just avoiding tough discussions. I think I am communicating my concerns, but I am really just putting up walls. Man I suck!

Again, I have to remember to stop making every conversation about me or us. I have to listen to him. Really listen. Not explain, judge, or make excuses. Just validate. I hope I get a chance to soon. And when it happens I hope I remember. Because that is something that happens. I know what I am supposed to do until it is time to do it. Then I do what comes natural--stupid cheeseless tunnels.

One thing I have on my side is time. He doesn't want to do anything until after the school year is over. Those 7 months of status quo sometimes feel like a gift. Other times a burden.

[TryingToDo180]

There's been a few couples that still live together on here and yet are separated emotionally. If this is the case here, you could tell him that if he wants to live separately then he has to start doing his own washing, cooking, etc.
Your pastor sounds good, but seeing as it is the Christian way to stand for your marriage, I think he needs to be reminded of this. There's a website called rejoice marriage ministries that you can sign up for a daily email. It's full of good advice and Christian daily devotionals. It really sets me up for the day
Remember me saying to you to take one step at a time when trying to change yourself? Well today I had my first IC and she said in order to reach the top of the ladder you need to climb one rung at a time. This was a good way of putting it
Give him distance and let him work out what he really wants. Go out more, when he's in, for a walk around the park. Go out for your dinner if you can afford it so he's got to make his own dinner.
This is just my 2 cents. I don't mind if you don't want to follow this advice. At the end of the day it's your sitch and you know what your gut feeling is

[mustardseed]

Thank you for your suggestions. My Pastor wasn't discouraging the marriage, I think she was just avoiding giving me false hope at this moment and focusing on giving me coping strategies and perspective.

I like that one rung at a time metaphor. Making decisions without involving him is my first rung.

I have been cooking at home more, in the past I was inconsistent. I think that is a lot of where the money gets blown. He doesn't always eat what I make. Part of why I stopped cooking so many years ago was because I would make something, the kids would complain about it, he would order a pizza. Then they would complain that they had to eat my meal while he got pizza. So I just gave up. But I recently made cooking a hobby and included the kids. My meals are much better tasting. I don't cook for him, but he can eat it if he wants. And if he doesn't he waits for the kids to go to bed before ordering what he wants. But I think you are right that I do need to get out of the house more. I am thinking about going out to the movies by myself one day. I guess when something really catches my fancy.
I really wish I had some single friends. Or friends that want to get out without their SOs.

Part of me is thinking maybe I should just move out. Get a one bedroom apartment, let the kids stay here with him. Then we can switch it up he can stay in the one bedroom and I can stay here. This way we could coparent without having to move the kids around. It would save him child support. It will save me rent (3 bedroom apartments are ridiculous around here, we really have a good deal on our place). IDK. I guess if we have a talk I can suggest this. It is a way for us to be apart (if that is really what his problem is) without it costing an arm and a leg, or freeing him of all responsibilities. If we are divorced, I can't stay here. Our housing is linked to his job. He has no plan for how this is all going to work yet. I would like to think this is a sign that he is not really serious, however, I know this is how he works. He never has a plan until things just happen. When we met we were both pretty "off the cuff" sort of people--me by choice, but I guess him by nature. Part of what I used to love about our lives together--so exciting, but later that is what caused this feeling of instability which led to the stress that has him ready to leave and me clinging to fix it. I started feeling the need for more stability. I think deep down inside I am more type A then I ever wanted to admit to. Maybe that side of me coming out has made him realize he doesn't really like me anymore.

*Sigh* I really have to try to stop figuring him out and just do what I need to do.

BTW I took my test this morning. Taking it on the computer at a testing center is a unique experience. I missed the paper. I like to mark up my tests when I take them and I found it difficult to focus. Not sure if it is because of the format or because of the BS I am dealing with. Anyway, crossing my fingers that I did well.

[mustardseed]

Woo hoo!! Not on moderation anymore!