Whether a MLCer or a WAW, dbing is pretty much the same.
Take care of you. Give plenty of space. Make the changes you think you need to - for you. Make sure you GAL. Eat,rest, exercise and pray if you are so inclined.
Here's the thing. You get to decide when you've had enough.
Just something to think about. Your children are watching you. It doesnt matter that they are so young.
You get the opportunity to show them how to navigate through life's challenges with dignity, courage and strength.
Become the man you were meant to be.
It is not good to ever say never, ya know?
I know of two marriages with people to whom I am close, who have stronger, deeper marriages after infidelity. They would all tell you that while the pain was great, the result was worth it. Trust can be earned back, T. It is possible.
You are reading into a playlist. Not serving you well right now.
No need to make a decision today.
Put your marriage safely in a box right now and store it away.
Continue on your journey, T. Look within and figure out who you want to be.
Not saying you might not want to quit one day. Today is not that day.
My W was real big on breakup songs for a while and would sometimes walk in the room and hit "play" to one right next to me! Listens to modern pop sometimes... Prior to crises she seldom listened to any music at all. Hasn't made any moves out or towards D yet, and no signs of an A.
She was really getting into singing along to "I kissed a girl" a couple weeks ago. Maybe she has a girl friend now!!!
Seems silly to worry about just because of a song.
Just cause W listens to cheatin' songs doesn't mean she's cheatin'. You're just assuming the worst here... you really don't know.
If any kind of an A is truly an absolute deal breaker for you, and you have real reason to believe there's something goin' on, then get to snoopin'. Don't get caught though, whatever you do. That'll mess up everything.
M: A really long time. Crisis: 5 years. She's still worth it.
Life is never made unbearable by circumstances, but only by lack of meaning and purpose. -Viktor Frankl
but once that trust is broken I really don't see how you get it back.
If you look deeply within, and W tries, you might be rather surprised... for me the main thing was for ME to WANT to trust again, to forgive...
People make bad choices, especially in a crisis mode. It's not our job to judge, imo, just help them get through it and back into living.
Her song list may just be a way to process her internal feelings and mental state in a SAFE way. Music can act as a catharsis for things we don't want to express outwardly, or don't feel comfortable with...expressing without acting...heck, I listened to a lot of dark, dark music back in the day...and I am still here... I am a musician, so W's song choices would tweak my curiosity, knowing what I know about how it can effect the psyche, but I kept the above in mind. It doesn't have to mean any ACTION is being taken. Know what I mean?
T^2
In the depths of winter, I finally learned that within me there lay an invincible summer. - Albert Camus
Uncertainty is the very condition which impels people to unfold their powers.-Eric Fromm
Your all right, tyvm for the encouragement. Its funny, I posted took a walk came back home, and took a nap. Woke up late, and the anxiety was already gone. I didn't care again, either way. Just wish I didn't have those 2 hours sessions with my mind once a week.
I've never thought my wife was in an A, but do any of us till the proof comes along? (I couldn't find what I don't have access to). But just about EVERYONE says she is, you start believing. When it comes down to it, it doesn't matter either way according to Chuck. I guess i'll need to get to that point where having to make that decision is the key one way or the other.
As a late night update: My wife drove over tonight to talk, got out of the car and ran over and gave me a big hug,said she thinks shes coming out of the fog, she's starting to think about what she's been doing to herself, me/kids/family. Says she scheduled herself an appt. today with her dr. finally to get a check up - she's sure she's got something going on. Said I looked great all tan (I work outside mainly) and muscled up. She wants me to take her to the appt.
This was my old wife for 60 minutes, guess my daughter took her to dinner and they really talked for the first time in 5 months. Now for the hard part, to forget all about that, cause tomorrow the switch can be thrown again. Im getting myself prepared for either persona to show up again.
btw, if I have to listen to that damn Bruno Mars song one more time............
When W's last EA dumped her in Feb, all I heard was that (formerly good) song "Someone I used to know"...I think I can make it through life if I never hear it again...
But it CAN work the other way....
When W and I were painting the kitchen together a few weeks ago, that Pink song "Not broken, just bent" played EVERY hour on HER radio station while we were working together...and when we took breaks, our neighbor's teenage daughter and her friends were outside playing it over, and over, and over....like teenagers do. W is into "signs"...so maybe it was a sign... Maybe, just maybe, THAT had some subconscious work/effect on W, having that song drilled into her brain while working with ME... ? lol
Nothing to take too seriously...
Hang in there!!
In the depths of winter, I finally learned that within me there lay an invincible summer. - Albert Camus
Uncertainty is the very condition which impels people to unfold their powers.-Eric Fromm
IMO the labels are not important. I think A WHOLE LOT of time is wasted trying to label a spouse as MLC b/c somehow someone thinks that it makes more sense to them,
OR b/c they mistakenly believe an MLCer is more likely to come home than a WAS.
I have no evidence to support that. But there are two things to remember.
1) spending time asking WHY/HOW COULD THEY??? is a waste of time b/c you are NOT working on yourself then
and that tends to be a big plus for some LBSers. They don't want to work on themselves or take a brave look within, they WANT their spouse to be MLC and then they can shake their heads and act as if their spouse is "just so crazy". They can avoid the self growth or the journey inward that is the only upside to this ordeal (ie the personal growth of the LBSer).
2) spending time asking WHY/HOW is a waste of time b/c it does NOT CHANGE YOUR COURSE OF ACTION...it usually delays it. Your course of action is the same regardless of WAS/MLC.
GAL and do 180s and move forward. Doing those things helps you DETACH which is the other action.
So if there are any "secrets" to getting thru this ordeal, it's above^^^ in bold
and the sooner you get on it, the better.
I wasted a YEAR diagnosing my h instead of planning for my new life and my kids.
But once I woke up and assumed h was not coming home but that I was going to be happy anyhow,
paradoxically I did all that for ME but it seemed to lead to h waking up.
You cannot do it as a tactic - but it is the most likely way or the only way to get a few of these spouses home.
Not most. Not half. But some. And GAL and working on yourself, digging deep and bravely, always (100% of the time) makes YOU a better person. And that's not a small thing.
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
I understand why you feel an A is a deal breaker. I always thought it was for me, too...until I had one. I was the person who judged others who had A's and just KNEW I wouldn't tolerate it myself.
I just read both of your threads...hang in there, learn to detach and have some patience. I know this is really tough, worse than anything you can imagine. Now imagine that, perhaps, your wife felt like that for 20 years of your M while her needs went unmet because you were always working. Hindsight is 20/20. You did what you thought was right. I am not saying this is all your fault, it takes two. I am saying that she most likely endured all she could those years of loneliness to get to this point, and now, a few months in you are ready to call it quits. Give it the 20 years it took her to call it quits, you'll be happy again by then, one way or the other! Work on yourself, try to understand how she got to this point, and be patient. She probably doesn't know what she wants right now.
Hang tough
M 46 H 44 D 12 S 8 M 9 T 11 BD 2/15/13 "Makes sense to stay together" 5/12/13 Agree we are 'healing' 7/13 Definitely Piecing 9/13
Been DB'n my butt off compared to the previous month, detaching has been a real priority for me. She's almost home, gone out of town 10 of last 14 days. So I've been staying at her house and taking care of the house and kids (a 180 for me). Cut way back on work, so that I could be there for everyone (also a 180).
The lovingly detached has been good for me. We still hardly talk, only when she calls or texts for the most part (except for kid issues). The conversations have been good, no fighting or arguing, but listening and validating (another 180). My daughter and I have grown very close over the last few weeks, and she's now constantly calling/checking on me, which I appreciate, but I've been taking that time with her to go shopping, go for breakfast/lunch or an ice cream run.
With all the 80-100 hour work weeks well behind me, im grateful for the time to reconnect with my kids. My daughter keeps telling me to "hold on" and give it "some time", and that she see's that im a totally different person that even 3 months ago. Taking the kids camping this weekend, wife asked if she could join us. I said yes, but will not hold her to it.
I think I've been doing GREAT at putting no pressure on her, and really upped my PMA around her even when im not truly feeling it. Its such a slow process to get me straightened out, much less the interactions with the W. Heading back to my IC today, my IC thinks I only need to come in every other week now, and maybe soon once a month.
Went out to dinner with what I regard as my big sister, my sister passed away 2 years ago, and she was her best friend. We all took the kids out for the evening and I had only my second drink in almost 20 years, helped take the edge off for sure.
Tips for the day, for anyone following:
Baby steps, baby steps, baby steps..........listen and validate, don't miss opportunities to 180 every chance you get, lovingly detach, but be supportive but not a doormat.
Your r with your d is improving and what a gift that is to both of you.
If making your family and time with the kids is a 180 for you, then I think the issue of MLC vs WAW is even less important. Your changes need to be your focus. And they are being noticed.
But consistent change + sufficient time = change your w can believe in.
And even then, it may not be enough...why?
Well, b/c it took a lot of time and pain for your w to want to leave a marriage and break up a family. She may think 6 months of change on your end (much less the few you've put in) barely gets her to consider that the changes are real.
She'll also have to believe the changes will remain IF she returns to the m. Her biggest fear is that you will revert to your old ways and she worries she will have missed out on making a new life for herself A life wherein she feels valued. If you show her with your actions (and no requests of your d to "tell mom you noticed my changes" b/c then the changes are tactics, NOT true change) for long enough that she can believe that you have become the man she always hoped you'd become, then you may well turn this around.
No mother is unmoved by loving interactions with her children and their father. It's a turn on, frankly. And if she believes you really will treat her right, that you "get it" for real,
you could give a legacy of commitment to your children...a legacy of forgiveness, love and redemption.
That's A LOT...
What were you like when she met you and fell in love?
Can you be him again?
I think you can. But be patient with yourself AND with her. These changes in you are not enough in themselves, yet.
ALSO please get some tools if you do reconcile. NEW ways of interacting. Even if your changes are real AND permanent, and even if she wants to work on things, you will be back here again if you do NOT learn NEW ways of interacting...and how to let go of the past.
"From this day forward" are words in our vows, probably for brilliant reasons. The more I contemplate those words the more I think they are divinely inspired. Both of you will need to learn how to let go of the scorecard, for good.
I highly recommend Retrovaille or a personal growth workshop that many DBers have attended called Essential Experience (aka "EE", and please, check out their website.)
EE will house you so you just have to get there and pay their fee, which is the same now as it was 20 years ago. I've been to a few of these things and by far, by FAR, EE was the most profound at helping me make changes in my life.
Retrovaille is specifically for marriages in crisis. They also have a good website and are available nationwide. They charge a sliding scale fee.
You do NOT have to be Christian to attend but belief in God helps b/c they say that term and want some sort of spiritual connection between the couple, but if that is an issue, see if there is one for atheists...I honestly don't know.
Retrovaille has an impressive success rate but you DO have to get both people there. And the work is solely focussed on the couple, not each person's issues. We had been piecing for a year before I realized we were backsliding and I had NO reserves in me for that, so I proclaimed myself truly done if we did not get on track. We looked up Retrovaille and it was in OUR city two weeks later, on our wedding anniversary...so, yeah, we took that as a sign. And it was a great thing to do for us. Got us back on track with some new tools and reminders and some old tools that we had stopped using.
In an ideal world, you'd both do both.
Good luck
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
I am a musician, so W's song choices would tweak my curiosity, knowing what I know about how it can effect the psyche, but I kept the above in mind. It doesn't have to mean any ACTION is being taken. Know what I mean?