Been keeping "dark" for certain. Got a text message this morning -
Her: you ok? S is having so much fun!
Me: Hey there! I'm doing good. I figured S would be in heaven by now - how are you? I see you're getting your fav thunder storms!
Might have been to much, but she always reads my "short" responses as being angry or on edge. I basically responded like I would have before things took a turn. Haven't heard back, but I know she is really engaged with S and family.
Accuray – I think that I am making a sincere effort to drop the rope while she is out of town. I really have no intentions of reaching out It’s a start, but it the past it has been the right thing for me to do.
I agree with this strategy, there is a distance/pursuer dynamic here. I experience this too with my W: If I pull back, then she pursues. As we get close, she becomes distant. I'm not sure how to break the dynamic.
Originally Posted By: Crimson
Truthfully, 25 – the sex was different…better…more passionate (not to get all SM34 on you guys). I felt that was a good sign…was I wrong? What does this mean for feelings??
I think this is a good sign, but sometimes like you I'm not sure. My W and I continue to ML. Sometimes I wonder if it isa matter of 22 years of habit on her part? I suggest to continue and don't read too much into it.
Originally Posted By: Crimson
To your point, I too have a hard time reconciling all of the positives she said about me against her claim of “feelings not being where they needed to be”. I don’t see how that works. It’s almost as if she SEES it all, but is terrified to open her heart back up for fear of landing where we once were. She said on Sunday that her heart still feels closed from all we went through and she doesn’t want to force it open or force her feelings.
Go slow. She is not fully committed yet, it will take time.
Originally Posted By: Crimson
I guess I was so stoked when she wanted to move back on a trial basis that I dropped my shields. She really actually pushed for us trying it.
I think this is a normal type of mistake. I am guilty of this too. I started to be less distant to my W, so she pulled back a little more. Moreover, while she is no longer talking D or separation, and says she wants to stay in the marriage, if you read my thread, she still does not "love me" or as she puts it, "she is working her way back to me"
If you view the situation objectively, then you might see behavior that is positive that she loves you and wants the M to work, and then also behavior that seems the opposite.
Originally Posted By: Crimson
You say let her fear losing me….but really, would she? Would someone who so quickly ejects from someone fear LOSING that person, too?? You said I need to make sure that she realizes this is a choice…leaving is a choice….love is a choice….opening your heart is a choice. But how? How does one do that? I have said it before to her, but I don’t think it resonates.
The most unusual thing my W told me his that she was worried that I wouldn't want her. I think this is normal because by detaching our W no longer sees us pursueing them and worries that we no longer want them. This creates anxiety for them.
Been doing some thinking this morning. I guess it's more of a synthesis of ideas, observations, advice from you guys, and things that she has said/done.
Net net? (and this will me a major "well nooooo sh*t!" from 25 and many others) - I think that deciding to move back in full time was pre-mature. Two things happened: 1.) I got carried away in the sense of happiness of having my family back full time, and 2.) She really wanted to be back and try to get things back on track.
What I think I ("we", really) didn't account for was the fact that the reestablishment of trust, love and commitment is a gradual process. To assume that we could just go full speed ahead after what we had been through was probably foolish.
Not enough time as a "couple" had passed to really get to find a good footing upon which to build. I think the BASIC elements may be there....maybe....but I think we were basically putting frosting on cake batter before it had been in the oven long enough to become a cake. In other words, we need or needed to keep baking a bit.
Having had a few days to wrap my brain around this, I guess it stands to logic that as she was set to move 100% out of her place and back to ours in 20 days cold feet would set in because not enough time had really gone by to get comfortable and establish a day-to-day trust that there had been change....that BOTH of us were willing to work at making the change last (yes, she has a ways to go), and that she was...well...basically "safe" together in our home again. And if she DID commit to moving in and things went to hell again, then where would she go? Through her eyes I can see and understand the fear of being trapped in a relationship like our old one again after all that we had been through.
Perhaps that is why she said was always so complementary of me, embraced and acknowledged my changes, became intimate again, and started to make future plans. She was maybe GETTING comfortable and establishing trust, but not at a point where she felt comfortable giving up 100% of her independence to dive back into living together full time again. Hence she said "my feelings aren't exactly where I expected or wanted them to be by now".
Maybe what I simply don't know (or possibly understand fully) is that trust, an open heart and affection for a woman that has been hurt by someone (namely me) is a long road back.
I try not to look past the progress that we have made so far (the often forgot "look down the mountain") and there has been a lot...a helluva lot....but still more to go. And, candidly, I think that since she is turning 40 next month and we still have our frozen embryo she is afraid that her window is closing. I think that, too, might have pushed us to move too fast.
As she spends her time with her fam back in Iowa and I kind of gather myself here, I hope that maybe we are coming to the same conclusions. I guess I can only pray for that.
Maybe it's too late and our rash decision has imploded our chance of reconciling, but I would be happy just calling her my girlfriend and and keep separate places right now. Maybe spending a few days together during the week and weekends. Honestly, that is what we should have been doing all along.
No idea what is going to happen. She is communicating a little while away - guess that ain't all bad.
Does anything I said above make sense? Am I making excuses? Am I just stroking my own feelings in an attempt to foster hope?
Does anything I said above make sense? Am I making excuses? Am I just stroking my own feelings in an attempt to foster hope?
I think all of it makes sense...
And I think you are understanding her pretty well, now that you are thinking rationally again.
One thing buddy...
A LOT has happened since the original bomb date.
Things that you may or may not realize with her, and with yourself.
What you see, is all of that ^^^ up there, and her reluctance to commit with everything that she has.
What does she see ?
What she is seeing, is that you have taken massive amounts of self-reflection time, and you have chosen to take a long look in the mirror at yourself, and taken the time to really develop your relationship skills.
She is not too far down the road from the person that left you all those months ago when it comes to relationship skills.
That must look pretty intimidating to her, and pretty overwhelming...
And I would say that it is probably pretty scary for her that she is looking toward you, to lead her in this.
You need to step back, and let her catch up to you slowly, and at her pace. She isn't there yet, although I think that she can be, with time.
Don't "overthink" this -like Crimson has been known to do- Understand what she "may" be thinking, just don't assume her feelings , and misinterpret them.....
You are in a place where you can ask her...in time
Just keep being you buddy, that is what has gotten you to this point....
I've been following your sitch for a while, I just never have any insight.
I really struggle with explaining, in writing, about my sitch and all the details and nuances that go with it. So I usually just pick pieces from others threads that may apply to my own.
Yours has been exceptionally helpful for me. You write what I can not, which gets you the replies that are not only helpful to you, but helpful to guys like me watching from the sidelines.
So for that, I wanted to sincerely thank you
M-38 W-32 D7, S4 M-10 BD-May '12 S for 1 month-June '12 Reconcile, Piecing
You are very welcome, BC - if anything I can post and share about my experience can help anyone I am glad.
Mach - thank you for your reply and additional insight. I'm doing my best to keep being be in this process, but I also feel myself working hard to keep sadness and fear at bay.
She texted me later this afternoon and asked if I had excepted a job offer that I received earlier this week (I have been looking for the right new job since early March). I told her "yes" and she replied congrats - and then asked if this means that she will have S full time during the week.
Now, I don't know exactly why but that just sunk my heart. I guess because at the moment it was a stark reminder that we'll be going back to back-and-forth custody again for the foreseeable future. Sometimes when faced with the realties of things in their raw forms I just get overwhelmed I guess. Maybe somewhere in the corner of my heart I was hoping that she would reach out to me and say "I miss you" or "let's talk about things when I get home". I didn't expect that to happen....just dreamed that it would. When I got smacked with what boils down to a custody question I guess my balloon deflated. I know I need to advance to the point (again) where her actions do not impact me, but I am not there yet. When she asks things like that for some reason I read it as "well, her mind is for sure made up on this and it's over". Over-thinking on my part? Probably. Maybe.
We both hurt so much when we are away from our S, and we both so much want a family of our own. I am often so confused why those two things alone aren't enough to help propel us closer to R....or maybe they have and I am too sad right now to see it.
I do believe what I said in the post above ^^^^, but sometimes I get shaken and lose hope and focus. I guess the am still get over the shock and sadness of what happened.....it hasn't even been a week yet.
I don't have much advice, but I am willing to throw in a pep talk, Crimson!
We all take any negative action and tend to dramatize it. I think that is just the nature of the LBS mindset. Personally, if I have an interaction with wife that doesn't go well, I always default to "great, that's IT". I doubt that is the case, Crimson. Just like in your marriage, it took years and years of issues to turn it upside down. Now that you're wife is somewhat seeing the light, I would suspect her to be weighing the goods and the bads, just like she did during the marriage. Your "goods" outweigh the bads. I think that is clear to everyone. She is going to see that as well. She just has her fears, but she sees it.....just stay your course and be that guy that only a fool would leave. Your long game is excellent. You are in your element right now, and you don't even realize it. This very place is where you had excelled so much before. Stay calm and slowly reel her back in. You can do it!
Thank you, SP. I will take a pep-talk any day. There are days when your legs get very, very, very tired on this road and right now is one of those days.
Is she seeing the light, though? Is she weighing the good and bad? And if so, it would appear in this moment that the bad is tipping the scale as evidenced by her sudden exit. But again, perhaps we were doing too much too fast. I try to avoid mind-reading, but there have been moments this week when I feel as if she is surrounded with family and friends and saying "I'm just done with him right now".
I am resolved to stay consistent and stick with what has gotten me this far. I am very pulled back and have only reached out to her once via text since she has been gone - I want to give her time and space in the hopes that perhaps that will provide at least a modicum of clarity. Sadly, time and space also means "silence" and I often interpret silence as a sign of lack of interest or a need to flee.
Today I made an appointment with a counselor that was recommended to us by a psychiatrist. She is solution based and said the only reason she probes into the past is to get and understanding of the present at future - but that is it. She also said that she is a "homework giver" and believes that a lot of the work in relationship resolution is done outside of her office. I hope that works for xw. Historically, I fear that when the mirror is turned on her she will drop it. In past counseling attempts she has said that she has found them "exhausting" and "draining" and eventually stops going. And as 25 mentioned, part of me fears that she is going just to say "I've tried and tried again" and then throw in the towel.
Sad thing is, I absolutely see and understand her fears and concerns. Through the DB process (and a hearty portion of 2x4's) I have really taken to looking at things through her perspective and as she sees them....not as I see them. Even at that, part of me believes that there is a way through what she is feelings and fearing right now - but it requires perseverance, patience, and a desire to make things work. Regrettably, in the absence of the "feelings" she seems to me missing for me I don't know if any of those things are possible. It may just be that first comes the perseverance, patience and desire to make it work and THEN come the feelings. It's just hard to try to put things back together with someone that thinks it may be the other way around.
No real updates I guess. They (xw and S) get back in town late this afternoon. It's been since Monday that I have heard my son's voice. After being with him for almost three straight months, that feels like and eternity.
I am embarrassed to say that my level of anxiety is up a little bit this morning. It's probably from all of the speculation I am doing, which I know is not good - but I am trying to control by staying busy.
I guess the root of it is that it happened so quickly.....meaning she packed up everything on Monday and flew out on Tuesday and we haven't said anything about it since then. I have no idea if she wants to be "done" (I asked, you never answered) or if we are working on things still - just from our own homes. No clue. And I know it shouldn't bother me either way - I know I should just carry on and move forward. And I will. Regardless. I just feel as though I am in a limbo state.
What's worse, I fear that this whole trip has been one meeting after another with her friends and parents - all of which I fear are telling her to just be done with our R. As I said, I am ashamed of myself for having these feelings and not being much stronger than I am right now. I guess I am just having a bit of a low moment right now.
Hell, tomorrow is Father's Day and if you would have told me a week ago that I would not be spending it as a family I would have thought you were crazy. Mother's Day was such a pleasant time for all of us.
I know I cannot control her or her feelings and actions - and I'm not going to try. I can just have hope that this is just a bump along the road to reconciliation that we will be able to survive. I really love my family and have enjoyed the last few months, despite the challenges and occasional awkwardness.
- how are you? I see you're getting your fav thunder storms!