Becoming Patient Man

[Tryin2figuritout]

PM,

I met with Laurie and it was great. A lot of good advice and I do plan on calling back at some point when/if momentum goes back into "our" favor as a couple. We're really at the space giving steps right now and if that momentum changes as in the Mrs. being more open to personal contact from me (right now most is from her to me) then I'd open to DB coaching again.

You mentioned bible verses and DB guidance. Mine came in the shape of a fortune cookie or actually cookies:

1) Mine - "Don't close a door you want back open."
2) Hers - "Happiness is not about what you want but what you have."

She never saw these as this was a dinner with my brother the week the Mrs. asked for a divorce. The second is obviously easy to see. The first time I read mine I was like "you're darn right she doesn't need to shut the door", but I remembered it was mine. This allowed me to let go because I realized all my pleading, begging, anger, whatever was just shutting that door like crazy. The next day I went to church to pray and instead of praying that my wife would realize what she's giving up like normal, I asked that she be free from her pain and what I didn't realize was how much that relieved me!!!!

Been building ever since that day (March 24th to be exact) and I've enjoyed myself, my time with my kids and heck even my time with the Mrs. so much more since then. Like I said before....given in, but not given up....

[PatientMan]

PA,

I think if I had a time machine, and the lessons I have learned here and in DR...I would have insisted on a mutual recovery with both of us admitting and working on our issues. Our recovery was VERY one sided. I drank, she told me multiple times to stop or she was done = justification for PA.

Now I will be the first one to flog myself for my past. I kick myself in the rear end almost daily (I regret all those I hurt with my drinking, and wish I had .01% of that cash back). I got the help I needed, and more importantly, I did it for ME.

Now flip the coin. The onus was on me fully if I wanted the M to continue. She never accepted the responsibility for the pain she caused me. She never acknowledged how crappy that was to do to someone who was on the other side of the globe already in danger, and then having to worry about that crap on top of it. She made me feel guilty for causing it.

And I sucked it all up because a) I loved her, and b) I was terrified of being D and alone again. But you also have to realize that it damaged how I looked at her from there forward. I had her on a pedestal so high. I bragged to everyone how great a W she was. She was a saint IMHO. But after the PA...it caused all that faith, and trust to wither away.

It didnt help that the OM was a M cop. He got away scott free. I was so tempted to go tell his W, but that was another condition of any future R with W.

Sooooooo...long story short, I would have made her own it, and grew together in the new R as I hope we still can do now.

Thanks. That's pretty much where I am right now. What's up in the air is:

1) Whether or not she's going to own up to it or even realize what she did was wrong
2) If we can/are willing to work on that, truly put the old relationship behind us, and move forward.

[PatientMan]

Journaling:

EXTREMELY strong feelings of resentment on Sunday morning. It did not start with going to church and watching my D's see all the other moms there with their kids, but that certainly didn't help.

The resentment lasted about half the day, or into the early afternoon. The rest of the day, I was able to tolerate my feelings as they tamed down.

I feel like I need to figure out how to get past this resentment stuff. I don't think I'm outwardly being a p-rick, but it's obvious that I don't really want to be around her or in the same room, and I can see how that can come across as p-rickish. I don't want to come across that way, but the feelings are so strong sometimes.

I love her so much, but am left scratching my head and wondering who this person is.

I do have the feeling and the faith that hindsight will indeed be very 20/20 later on. That helps with my patience...knowing I'll look back and see things clearly.

The irony of us essentially switching places has reared its ugly head again. I remember her telling me there were times where she didn't know why she was doing what she was doing, why she bit her tongue, why she put up with me, how she had to buffer the kids from seeing what I was doing, how she didn't want to be around me or how she couldn't even look me in the eye.

I'm THERE.

And I suppose she's somewhere out there lost like I was, searching for an answer. I hope she starts looking in the right place.

She bit her tongue until she broke, and that started this process a year and a half ago. Should I bite my tongue until I completely break too?

Tangentially, she's still temperature checking me. Things like lightly kicking my leg and pushing it while I sit on the couch to initiate contact, and asking me to crack her back. As strong as my feelings are, MAN is it difficult to hold back in that moment, fight off millions of years of evolution, and stick to the plan! (But I did not respond - I took the kids to the park, like I told them I would.)

Mother's Day: I got her a card and simply signed it (I did spend some time picking it out...after all, there are sections called "From Husband" and "For Grandmother", but there isn't a section called "Separated from wife, hopeful for reconciliation, don't want to add any pressure by actually mentioning or alluding to Marriage or Love or the Future, but not even really sure about where things are right now and/or/if they are going anywhere anyway"). In addition, I did the dishes and cleaned out the fridge. I took care of the kids all day, but that is usual for a weekend since I get to see them so little during the week. The dishes and fridge were for Mother's Day (and just needed to be done)...I've stopped doing most of that sort of thing. Her house, her problem. If I make a mess, I clean it up. That's it - just like I would a "friend."

-PM

[Tryin2figuritout]

PM,

On the Mother's Day cards, I found the section that said "Separated from Wife, hopeful......", but they were sold out so I had to skip on a card this year. ;-)

We had couples therapy yesterday and I got "busted" so to speak. Our couples therapist asked me directly about whether I would still want our marriage to work and I felt I had to be honest so I said yes. It took my wife by surprise, but I felt like I had no choice.

The Mrs really used most of the session for her which I'm glad to see happen because she needs help. So much patience in having to let her walk through her part of this process and just walk the line that is so hard to do. I was glad when she reached out to me again last night via text so I'm not worried that I scared her too much being honest during therapy.

So many things said yesterday wanted me to jump on them but I have to bite my tongue and let her go through her process of seeing everything. I know if I push or try to push her in any direction it will only be opposite of where I need her to go as she needs to go through this herself....

[PatientMan]

Yes, it's hard to sit there and watch and know that helping doesn't help. It feels very parental, instead of spousal.

Scatter-shooting:

1) I've been doing fairly well lately, with various periods of tumult, but only on the inside. For example, this morning she texts me to ensure I will be with our D's this evening. Of course, my mind immediately starts racing with the worst possible thought: a date or encounter with OM. Internally:

Why does she need me this evening?
Where is she going?
Is this just to try and give me a taste of my own medicine?
Is she really going to blatantly start dating while we are still M?
...???

As I'm typing up my response of, "yes, I'll be headed to the house after work", she informs me that she wants to teach a class this evening...so it was work.

Calm down, PM, you aren't yet as detached as you think.

Also, last night I came over after class because our house keys got switched up. It was after 10pm. I made a bunch of noise with the keys and the lock (not on purpose - just testing) and went upstairs to kiss the girls and check on them. She didn't come out of her bedroom or say anything. I even waited around an extra minute or so to see if she would say anything or even send a text.

Nothing.

So as I'm driving away I have the urge to text her: "are you ignoring me or should I be worried about the security of my children because you slept through all that? Because it's gotta be one of those two."

Of course I didn't send it. Calm down PM, calm down. You aren't as detached as you think.

2) The kids have been laying on the guilt lately - at least I know *I* have been feeling it. They know things aren't right, but maybe the saddest part is the older 3 don't even ask if I'm spending the night anymore. They know the answer. The little one asked me right in front of her just a week or two ago, and continues to ask. She has been very clingy to me lately, and in front of W, so I know she sees it.

I don't want W to see this because I want to torture her, I just want her to know these decisions DO have an effect on the kids, and things aren't as rosy as she wants them to be or pretends and hopes they will be.

The kids seem to know Mom is very fragile right now, and have been counting on me more for emotional support. So I don't know how much they are actually talking to her about things. And if they're silent about it, she can pretend they're okay with everything.

They are not.

3) I remember this past December. "Photos of the girls" actually meant "family photos of me with the girls - PM not invited." That one stung me that day, I must admit. D7 even noticed and remarked, "Dad, why aren't YOU getting dressed too?" That was a tough day.

4) It's very easy to go into someone else's thread, diagnose things, and spit out a prescription that is probably pretty good advice. It's very difficult to detach myself from my own situation enough to diagnose and then prescribe myself the appropriate treatment. I keep wondering if I am handling things the right way. Or if I should be friendlier, and when I should start.

I know that I can't think of how she is going to react, so my answer is: I need to keep this space as long as I feel this way when I am around her. Even though I feel this way around her, I still want to reconcile, and I certainly don't ENJOY feeling this way towards her. So when these feelings stop, then I can start letting her back in - as a friend.

Can I trust those feelings? Any takers?

4) Did I mention my grandmother passed away two weeks ago? I didn't tell W either. I didn't consciously not tell her, I just didn't think about it while she was around. The kids and I are headed out of town this weekend to see family, and I am going to tell them tonight. She gets to go be with her husband...that's a good thing.

I decided to tell W last night, in case any questions came up, but she wasn't awake...

5) I booked a room at the beach for me and the girls to go on a trip this summer. I promised them we'd go to the beach, so we're going to the beach.

-PM

[PatientMan]

Okay, I just got off the phone with her. She was giving me her daily rundown. I know I came off as "okay...okay...I'm listening...are we done talking yet...yes?...okay bye thanks."

And so I'm sitting here pondering if I'm interacting with her the right way, and I realize I just have to get out of my own head.

THIS is why I need space, I think. I don't want to come across as a jerk, but I DO have trouble being around her right now. And I don't want to.

[PatientMan]

Also:

6) I'm thinking about moving back into the old house. It makes sense because I need more space and we own it. Downside: could stir some serious [stuff] up.

7) I put my books from the bookshelf in boxes this past weekend. They're ready to go whenever I feel like grabbing them. Two big boxes worth and the bookshelf is rather empty.

8) She has - on several occasions - indicated there are still feelings and emotions with me, that she is physically attracted to me, etc. She could be:

• Telling me something she thinks I want to hear to soften me up or make me feel better, or
• Signaling me, as in: "Hey! You idiot! I know I SAY "I'm done", but don't screw this up because I'm not."

I just need to get "okay" first. It's difficult to put myself first. It's been difficult for me to reorder the priorities list in my mind and put kids above W. Does anyone have ideas on the steps to this process?

The context of everything could get very detailed, and it's quite obvious that, though I do not intend to write giant posts, it's usually what I end up doing to feel like I'm providing the proper frame for the story to a (wonderful) bunch of relative strangers. So my apologies for that. I'll leave the detailed context (that I began typing) out for now.

Right now I'm trying to:

• Focus on creating the best life possible for me and my children.
• Become "okay" with her as a person, though I'm not sure how "okay" I can be with my lack of trust. I suppose I only allow her as close as my trust allows.
• Be an honorable man.
• Be a man only a fool would leave.
• Be me.
• Keep the road paved home smooth.

Thanks,

-PM

[adinva]

My opinion? You've got to figure out what is to you the right and best way to be and be that, not some version of how to be that might attract your W back. Therefore, my answer to the question of what if she's bluffing is this.

Do you intend to be in a relationship with someone who cuts you to the quick and says one thing secretly expecting you to know the opposite is the truth and "don't screw this up."? Do you think you are worth that treatment, from anyone let alone your spouse? Do you think someone doing that is a healthy relationship partner whom you should bend over backwards to try to woo reluctantly back? I would answer all of these questions NO, and so I would act on the reasonable assumption that what she says is what she means, not the reverse.

I would take her words at face value. You aren't being mean, and you haven't made it unclear whether you want her back, right? I mean, doesn't everyone here start with begging and pleading? Even accepting her decisions can be done lovingly but regretfully, so it's quite clear there's a road home.

I would expect her to live into her words. If she doesn't want to leave you she should not leave. If she comes back surprised that you didn't see through it all and chase her, my response would be that I have more respect for her and for myself than to play mindgames or to assume that she was.

Opinions may vary, that's mine. I'd rather let someone go who would do that, really.

[PatientMan]

Thanks adinva.

I don't think she's bluffing, just extremely conflicted - which I think is obvious as we are almost 18 months into post BD and still no D.

BUT, you are (of course) correct. If she has maintained both verbally and with the divorce proceedings that she is set on following through with divorce, then I have to accept those very tangible facts and respect them. I suppose it's her own fault for sending such mixed signals, but the constant has been very slow progress to divorce.

I'm going to do my thing. Her move.

-PM

[PatientMan]

We talked last night. I had to tell her about my grandmother passing because I told the kids, so I took that opportunity to bring up all the topics at hand:

• Grandma passing – telling the girls tonight.
• If she is going to be depositing money into her personal account (like she is with another paycheck, but not all - she has 4 different employers), what bills will she be taking over? (I understand her wanting to build up a bit of funds to feel secure, but we’re paying bills out of our joint account that she isn’t contributing to with now two paychecks.)
• The roof on the house we own, but don't live in, is going to cost between $10k-$20k to repair, which I am borrowing to fund. Does she want to share in that cost, or does she want to just give me the house (which has very little equity)?
• I’m having trouble being around her right now. I don’t want to feel this way, which is why I asked for space so I can sort things out. I appreciate and like getting the calls about the kids and what to expect for that day...don’t stop that. I’m sorry if I seem difficult, it is just difficult for me right now.
• At times it’s easy for me to slip into comfort-mode with her and pretend things are normal, but I don’t think that’s doing any good.
• I’m focusing on my life with the girls, and making that the best possible.
• I’m giving her what she originally asked for – space. I hear what she is saying, that she is conflicted and second guessing herself. I miss her too, but she’s given me no indication that she wants to work on things. The constant has been a progression towards divorce, and I have to respect that. If she was truly conflicted, she wouldn’t push the divorce process further.

She listened, she apologized, she said that she knows she is a mess and is sorry for dragging me through all this. She said that she does love me and does care about me. That she still hates the thought of me even being in a bad mood, let alone being angry with or hating her. She said she knows my changes are real and trusts me (otherwise she'd be much more restrictive about my time with the kids), but doesn't know if she can ever open up to me again in a way that would be necessary for R. Ultimately she came back to what she has maintained all along: she has to be okay on her own.

I did a lot of listening too, but I told her I that it wasn't the dragging me through tough times that made me need space...that's what husbands are for! It was the deceit and betrayal.

I told her that my problem is that I don't trust her, and she hasn't given me any indication that I should. She hasn't worked on that. I know her feelings are all over the place, but *feelings* and *holding oneself accountable to certain actions* are two different things. I told her that sitting right there talking with her, "I feel like I'm talking to you...the "you" that I remember. But maybe I am just fooling myself because what you have done isn't something the W I know would do. And I hate that because I WANT to trust you and be okay around you, but if I can't then I have to adjust."

We finished up with what the plan was for the next couple of days, and then I went to go. She wanted a hug, so I gave her one, of course. And dangit if that didn't lead to ML. She said it was a bad idea, I said it was a bad idea, but it still happened. Oh well, make a mistake and move on. Don't dwell on it. (Though I was complimented several times on my appearance. I'll take it! )

Afterwards I went to leave and it's thunderstorming like crazy outside. "Why don't you stay here?" she asks. "I don't want to sleep on a couch," I reply. She said she didn't think I would want to sleep in bed with her (given what we had talked about, I suppose), but she didn't mind if I didn't.

I didn't mind.

I also got to get up with D3 and tuck her back in. Normally, people wouldn't enjoy getting up in the middle of the night to take their kids back to bed, but I felt like Dad in the home with my daughters...it felt good, even though I know it was a one time deal.

-PM