Becoming Patient Man

[Tryin2figuritout]

PM.... really can appreciate and relate to your post... We're in the process of filing and will have the 365 waiting period to be able to make it final before the D becomes official.

I like to think of that I've given in, but not given up. You've got to essentially move out of the way to allow the process to happen. When my wife first told me ILYBINILWY in the Fall, I was shocked and it took a few months before I started to find different resources to gain strength, perspective, understanding to process all this.

We were scheduled to go to Retrouvaille in March, but she pulled the plug and said we're getting divorced at that time. That weekend was probably the best weekend in my life because after much hurt, agony, all the negative feelings of where I messed up, blah blah blah.... I realized that I can either live like that or chose to grow and learn from all this. It started slow, but continues to be a self-improvement project like I've never know and I am loving it.

The Mrs. moved out officially last week and we're sharing our kids 50/50. First week of that was good because we had been living separate (kids at home with she and I taking turns with them 50/50). Without this move, I know she can't fully go through what she needs to IF there is a chance of R. With me focusing on myself, I'm excited to see who I can become for me and my beautiful kids and if she's not interested as I use DB techniques and other things that I'm trying to implement so be it. I'm just sure as heck going to be sure I can sleep every night knowing that I've done my part to my commitment to our marriage.

The way I look at it is I know good and well the Big Man upstairs brought us together once and if He wants us back together it will happen.....

Good luck!!!

[PatientMan]

Sounds like you have your head on straight, Tryin2figuritout. Thanks for your visit to my thread. Regarding:

"I like to think of that I've given in, but not given up." Someone told me it was acceptance without agreeance. (The same person told me it was the advice given for the state of mind cancer patients should have. Accept the condition of your reality, but don't agree that it controls you or your will to fight for what you want and think is right.)

Update:

On Sunday afternoon she asked me about how to fill out a W-4 form to turn into her employers and how to set up online bill-pay in her new bank account. I just went over the basics with her and agreed to help her set up whatever she needed (trying to be courteous). Most of the day I spent entirely with my girls. Church, park, a date with the oldest, then we came home and had dinner, started taking showers, winding down, and getting ready for bed. I helped the little one with brushing her teeth and finally tucked them all in.

In the afternoon she came to me and told me that she missed me. I just stood there...again, stoically. (I'm not supposed to talk about my feelings as I understand it.) So, I ended up just staring at her...actually it would be more accurate to say I was staring through her. Her eyes began twinkling and I eventually gave her a wink, which made her smile.

Later on she cornered me again...this time I relented. I told her that I did miss her too, but there were certain things I needed to figure out if I was "okay" with and that it wasn't prudent to pretend those things didn't exist. I did not say this in a jerky way, just as a matter of fact.

I recorded and watched the Pacers/Knicks game downstairs that evening, finishing it off after I had tucked the kids in (being with the kids all day delayed the game so I had to ignore my phone updates as well!). W was upstairs because we had a pipe burst over the weekend and the cleanup crew had 27 commercial grade fans and a few dehumidifiers in the downstairs, but the upstairs was comfortable enough so the family decided to stay there instead of piling into a hotel. With all the noise, I really did just "watch" the game as I couldn't hear anything over the fans.

At one point a few minutes before the game was over and I am going to leave, W comes down and stands behind the me sitting on the couch. I had my hands behind my head so my arms were up. She softly touched my forearms and as good as it felt, I knew it was temperature check time.

After a minute she came around the couch, sat on my lap, and began hugging me. She would occasionally kiss my head, but it was a long hug. Definitely a "move" by her, but I didn't counter the move in any way. Whew...that was tough. It was only a few minutes, but it seemed like forever because in my mind I was asking myself "am I going to be able to say no if she pushes further? how do I say "no" in the least rude way possible? Am I really going to say 'no'?!?!?" She eventually said she was going to get some sleep and headed upstairs.

I finished the game within a few minutes and - admittedly - played with fire by walking upstairs to let her know I was leaving. I gave her a hug, which she clung to, and then I broke away to leave. She extended her arm out to grab my hand. I held it for a moment and then let it slip as I said "get some rest."

Now I didn't have to come right out and say "no," but that was the first time I didn't jump at the first unmistakable sign of an offer to ML, so I suppose that was a step forward for me. As much as I enjoy it and miss it, not going through with it was the right thing to do.

I guess I'll have to wait and see how she reacts, but it really doesn't matter. I'm going to be me and do what I think is right and honorable. I had class last night and again tonight, so I won't see her again until tomorrow. Phone calls have been very typical...exclusively about kids and schedules. But that has been typical for her/us. She'll seem distant/put off, but then seemingly out of nowhere temperature check me and/or seek closeness.

I feel good about what I did. I think she is "getting" that things aren't the same for me. She's sad. She's lonely. I want to help, but I don't think it's best that I do. I'm there for her in other ways right now, and I'm respecting her request for space, even if she isn't able/willing to.

I do feel like she is reaching out to me for emotional support, and that I am not fully there for her. I am there in that I let her cry on my shoulder, and I reenforce my belief in her as a person and mother, but I have pulled back from being TOTALLY there for her. That is difficult for me to do, but maybe it's what needs to happen. At least, that's a piece of my 180.

Regards,

-PM

[Tryin2figuritout]

I think we all have to piece together what 180 is like for our different situations. There are times when I'm pulled to be emotional support and I will provide....main reason is this is one of the reasons I'm in this sitch for not providing it. I can't turn dark or not be there when I thought I had been there, but according to the Mrs. was far from it.

Even though we've calculated child and spousal support she's come to me concerned over how she's going to make it paycheck to paycheck (even asked me and my ability to make it too). For this one, I'm completely dark no response because this is what she asked for and she needs to deal.

Sounds like you're slowly but surely making progress which is awesome, but it's also so hard to hold the line and not get excited. This past weekend there were a few things she did that she hasn't done in months, but I just have to smile, enjoy them and move on. So hard to hold the line, but don't want to dip my toe in that desperate pool again!!!!

[PatientMan]

"The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy." -MLK Jr. (1963)


How do YOU measure up? Be sure that when you make decisions - and act out your life - that you measure up well.

-PM

[PatientMan]

To clarify, my previous post wasn't directed specifically at Tryin2figuritout. It was just a thought for anyone reading.

I think we all have to piece together what 180 is like for our different situations. There are times when I'm pulled to be emotional support and I will provide....main reason is this is one of the reasons I'm in this sitch for not providing it. I can't turn dark or not be there when I thought I had been there, but according to the Mrs. was far from it.

That's the difficult part and similar to my sitch. I wasn't there...for a long time, so she mentally and emotionally left me. So after BD I showed her I was back and sorry for what I had done and still there for her...no matter what. But that didn't "work", I was virtually a doormat, and now that I am "finding myself" again I realize there are some things that SHE did that I am not "okay" with. This is leading me to actually make the choice to NOT be there for her no matter what, and as difficult as that is to do realizing that's how I got into this whole thing in the first place, I know that:

1) I have shown her who I am and what I have to offer
2) My line was crossed

So it's a difficult decision for me (daily), but I believe it to be the right one. I still listen when she talks and am not rude in any way, but I am not actively supporting her as a husband normally would. I have created/am creating "space" even though she seems to be resisting it.

Even though we've calculated child and spousal support she's come to me concerned over how she's going to make it paycheck to paycheck (even asked me and my ability to make it too). For this one, I'm completely dark no response because this is what she asked for and she needs to deal.

Same here. She is very worried about "making it" financially, but seems to understand it's HER decision to leave and not my job to pay her for it. Apparently that isn't the case in a lot of examples, so that is a positive for me (if there is one).

Sounds like you're slowly but surely making progress which is awesome, but it's also so hard to hold the line and not get excited. This past weekend there were a few things she did that she hasn't done in months, but I just have to smile, enjoy them and move on. So hard to hold the line, but don't want to dip my toe in that desperate pool again!!!!

For me, I have a few things I immediately think of to snap me back to where I need to be if my emotions start wandering off track. Along with those few "trigger" thoughts, I keep a two folded up lists in my wallet (one is of Bible verses and the other is DB'ing advice). If I'm really having trouble, I can consult my lists wherever I am.

[PatientMan]

W went out with friends last night - old friends who had moved out of state and are back in town for a few nights. W hardly ever goes out, and I spend non-school evenings with the girls anyway, so I agreed to hang around the house until she got back.

Throughout the night she kept sending me texts.

(1939) "I'm getting more hours at work!"
(1940) "And they may need me for even more. Whew!"
(2006) "Thanks for letting me go."
(2018) "Haven't even ordered yet."
(2029) "Just ordered."
(2056) "Just got food."
(2140) "About the head out."

After the first two I replied "Great!" and after the third I replied "Of course" (she deserves time to get out of the house and have fun, and gets very few opportunities). I stopped replying after that.

I don't know if she felt guilty that I was essentially baby-sitting for her, or she was trying to be friendly (resisting the space I said I needed), or perhaps even she was slipping into wife-mode (which she does sometimes). There are people in her life that, even though she hasn't worn her rings in 9 months, she hasn't told our sitch to and still refers to me as her husband.

Really, I don't care what the reason is.

It was tough for me because as she texted me I realized that even though she was checking in with me for whatever reason, I don't trust her. For all I knew, she could be out boinking some guy and lying to me the whole time. (FTR, I don't think she was and I do think she was where she says she was.) The unfortunate fact remains:

I don't trust her.

And as long as she doesn't seem to be interested in recognizing the harm she did by breaking that trust and then actively trying to rebuild it, then I won't. And I don't mean "I won't" as in "I refuse to", I mean it as "I just don't." *shrug*

I realize that to an outsider what she did last night might be seen as her trying to rebuild that trust. As if she was saying, "You can trust me. Here's what I'm doing now. And now. And now..." But until she actually recognizes what she did, repents, and then tells me I can trust her, I don't think I will (again, not by choice, but by default mental state right now).

I have read here that it's virtually impossible for the WAW to say she is sorry for what she did, so maybe I'm asking for the moon.

But you know what? Maybe I NEED the moon.

Don't get me wrong. I want her to want me...enough to work for it (and I'm not making her work out of spite). But I think I really need to hear her actually say, "You can trust me. Let me show you."

Meh, who am I kidding anyway? My D is almost final and I'm thinking about what it would take for ME to take HER back. Hahaha.

-PM

[PatientMan]

Tryin2figuritout:

You mentioned in another thread that you started DB coaching last month. How did that go?

[SFC_Swede]

PM...Earning trust is hard in your sitch.

How do I know? I was there in 2004. My W had a PA for months while I was deployed to Iraq. She claims she told me WE were over, and she did about half way through my tour via the phone. So in her head, we were broken up and the M was over. She justified the PA that way, even though she agreed to put off D proceedings until I got home.

In MC...she justified it. In private conversations...she justified it. So I know in her head she justifies it. And thats where I think you are as well. In the name of saving our M, I backcame more or less a door mat and swallowed it whole and did my best to drive on. I made many changes to address her reasons for the PA. and it took literally YEARS before I was comfortable with her going out alone. Not saying I didnt let her, I did...I just was manic about it.

And then one day I just let it all go....at least until recently when I got BD on 1 May.

Hang in there...there are no easy answers, and harder lessons to learn. Stay true to yourself.

[PatientMan]

PM...Earning trust is hard in your sitch.

How do I know? I was there in 2004. My W had a PA for months while I was deployed to Iraq. She claims she told me WE were over, and she did about half way through my tour via the phone. So in her head, we were broken up and the M was over. She justified the PA that way, even though she agreed to put off D proceedings until I got home.

In MC...she justified it. In private conversations...she justified it. So I know in her head she justifies it. And thats where I think you are as well. In the name of saving our M, I backcame more or less a door mat and swallowed it whole and did my best to drive on. I made many changes to address her reasons for the PA. and it took literally YEARS before I was comfortable with her going out alone. Not saying I didnt let her, I did...I just was manic about it.

And then one day I just let it all go....at least until recently when I got BD on 1 May.

Hang in there...there are no easy answers, and harder lessons to learn. Stay true to yourself.

Thanks for your post. I am sorry to hear about your recent BD.

So what would you do over, and what would you do different?

-PM

[SFC_Swede]

PA,

I think if I had a time machine, and the lessons I have learned here and in DR...I would have insisted on a mutual recovery with both of us admitting and working on our issues. Our recovery was VERY one sided. I drank, she told me multiple times to stop or she was done = justification for PA.

Now I will be the first one to flog myself for my past. I kick myself in the rear end almost daily (I regret all those I hurt with my drinking, and wish I had .01% of that cash back). I got the help I needed, and more importantly, I did it for ME.

Now flip the coin. The onus was on me fully if I wanted the M to continue. She never accepted the responsibility for the pain she caused me. She never acknowledged how crappy that was to do to someone who was on the other side of the globe already in danger, and then having to worry about that crap on top of it. She made me feel guilty for causing it.

And I sucked it all up because a) I loved her, and b) I was terrified of being D and alone again. But you also have to realize that it damaged how I looked at her from there forward. I had her on a pedestal so high. I bragged to everyone how great a W she was. She was a saint IMHO. But after the PA...it caused all that faith, and trust to wither away.

It didnt help that the OM was a M cop. He got away scott free. I was so tempted to go tell his W, but that was another condition of any future R with W.

Sooooooo...long story short, I would have made her own it, and grew together in the new R as I hope we still can do now.