Thanks

[sandi2]

Thank you for this, sandi2.

Do you think it's prudent to give the reason why a change in behavior has happened if the WAW asks? For example, if she asks me:

"What has been going on with you lately? You seem more distant and withdrawn."

She doesn't know that *I* know some things that have transpired with OM. I am thinking some sort of response such as:

"You have engaged in behavior that I said was unacceptable to me, and so I don't care what you do any longer. I have decided that I am going to live my life....and I'm going to do what makes me happy."

Obviously I stole that last part.

Thanks,

-PM

First of all let me say this, what I told Alan is what I personally believe all LBH's need to do when they have a W who is in an A. But everyone's individual stitch is a little bit different from another person's stitch. In Alan's case, he is a young student who has been M a very short time, and he and his W have no children. She is up all night partying and many times, doesn't come home at all. Add this with how she doubted going through with the wedding, I believe his only shot will be to take the tough love approach and go completely dark.

I believe in tough love in most every case. But every case can't go dark, b/c of children in the home. But the H can still detach himself from his wayward wife. If he doesn't detach, he stands an excellent chance of repeating the terrible experience.....if they stay together.

I tried to read most of your thread to see where you are. It seems pretty clear to me that your W has been getting the best of both worlds. Oh I know she cries at times, and I know you still love her, but if I could open her up and allow you to see inside her mind/heart, I think you would be shocked to see how much she's changed from the girl you M. When a woman gets involved (emotionally or physically) with any man who is not her H, it does something to change her. First off, she knows it is wrong, and therefore, she begins to hide it. That is just the beginning of the terrible deceit.

I am not sure how it all came about, but just looking at most of the page on this thread, it seems pretty certain where you are currently in your MR. She wants to be taken care of financially, and you being an honorable man, will support your children, but she isn't quite upfront with you.....is she? It's b/c one act of deceitfulness can easily lead to another.

You have been confused over being friends b/c she doesn't treat friends as bad as she treats her H. True, and let that be a lesson well learned. She wants you for the times she "needs" you. When she wants to cry or vent, or need you for the kids. You keep saying you will "be there for her no matter what", but I think that's where you need to reconsider.

At the rate things are going, she will get whatever she wants in the D, and maybe keep the A ongoing. If so, then she thinks things will continue with the two of you as they have been these past few months. You being there for her.......even though you say she can't treat you just any old way......she has, hasn't she? IDK the whole story, so I could be missing something, but from what I've learned, the WAW who is in an A usually doesn't reach the point of wanting to R as long as the LBH is always there for her. (This is not the same as continuing a R with his children. However, she can use the kids as a tool....as well as he can.) In the successful R that I know about, the W has to recognize or experience loss. That loss has to be tied in with the life she had with her H. If he always makes himself available (being there for her no matter what), then what will she lose that she wasn't willing to give up? And if she began to wonder if she really had lost something from him, she'd just test him to see if it was true. Intimacy? Sure, why not! Just b/c a couple is D doesn't mean they can't still have sex once in a while.

I don't mean to sound cocky or cruel. I just want you to get your eyes open. What you've been doing hasn't worked. You need to do a complete 180. What do you have to lose? Her friendship? It's not a friendship. It's a usedship.

Oh, I almost forgot about the question you had asked me from Alan's thread.

I believe the less you explain to the WAW, the better. Remember in DR when Michele talks about the importance of having that mysterious element? Well, if you don't how, just start by not telling her everything. In the past when you both were working on the M, it was important to explain your reasons, etc., but everything.....and I mean EVERYTHING has changed now. You must stop thinking of her in terms of being your W. Besides, it defeats whatever you may wish to accomplish.

Learn to give very vague answers to anything regarding your feelings, actions, details of events (especially if it is asking "who with"), or future plans. Keeps life more interesting.

Bare in mind that you are not required to give her answers about anything other than questions regarding her children (and anything else the court so orders). Don't try to see how big a jerk you can be, by giving snide remarks, or with a bitter attitude, etc. At the same time, you can't slide too far the other way and think that by telling her everything is going to help bust the D. It is to your advantage not to reveal everything you know right now.

Drop the rope, end the personal contacts (expect regarding kids only stuff....and keep that to a minimum), and stay away from her. Start a life of your own and be determined that your happiness will not be codependent on her. You have to reach that point before she will ever be serious at R.

[PatientMan]

Thank you for the post. I need to read that a couple of more times to make sure all of it sinks in.

I very much appreciate your candor.

-PM

[cbtdad]

Sandi2,
I am really enjoying reading your posts on others sitches because I am at a point on figuring out how I need to move forward if W continues with OM.
I'm takin l bits and pieces from each. Thanks

[sandi2]

You're both very welcome. I hope it helped.

[mrtwopointfour]

You're both very welcome. I hope it helped.

I am also finding these posts of yours great. Thanks sandi2!

[PatientMan]

I am pulling this from another thread for myself, but I just want to say that it seems like everything you are saying is *clicking*, sandi2. Thank you.

I know you are in terrific pain and probably don't realize what your responses are showing her. You are showing her you are too focused on what she's doing. Thus, you asking about what she was watching, etc. You are showing that her reaction (or lack of reaction)to what you ask her, affects your emotions. Then you continued by asking her again, thus showing your neediness for her attention. Then instead of ignoring her jab about you taking whatever you wanted, you had to come back with what could be interpreted as almost whining when you said, "but what if I want to stay here?" Of course, your tone of voice may not have sounded that way, IDK. But judging by the fact you wanted to press on with a R talk, I kind of think it was.

It seems like she expects me to just roll over for her and do whatever she wants.

I understand, but I'm trying to get you to see that you are not helping the matter by that type of interaction with her. The less you do at this point, the better for you. You may not see it right now, but you cannot "reason" with a WAW who is an A.

Here's the main problem with a WAW: disrespect for her H. The lower the feeling of respect goes, the lower the attraction. The higher the respect goes, the higher the attraction. Remember, women are not wired the same as men, and for a woman, she has to respect her H before she can have those "in love" feelings for him. So, it does nothing but antagonize the situation when you say these things.

She continues to stretch her expression of disrespect b/c she has the power to affect you. The one thing you can take power over, is how you will react to her. Every time you get upset, you've given her the power over you.

Yes, it will help when you are out from being in the same house. You will miss her terribly, so you have to prepare to keep your schedule full. Keep people activities as much as you can. Understanding and accepting that it will take lack of contact and TIME.....lots of time before she will want to seek you out again. And when she does, it doesn't mean she's ready, it just means she's curious.

It's a long road to reconciling. And, btw, don' t ever tell her you will wait for her to decide what she wants.....or that you'll be there for her.....or that she can depend upon you, and things like that. It sounds great in wedding vows, but not something you tell a woman who is cheating on you. You want her to wonder if she's lost all of those wonderful things in you.