Thanks

[jp787]

What about if spouse says "I miss you" or "I love you"? Reciprocating those feelings would be truthful, but I'm really in a mode where I have my feelings towards her shut down externally.

If my W said that I would faint, so nothing would be said.
How about "Thank you" or "That is nice (to hear)"

[PatientMan]

What about if spouse says "I miss you" or "I love you"? Reciprocating those feelings would be truthful, but I'm really in a mode where I have my feelings towards her shut down externally.

If my W said that I would faint, so nothing would be said.
How about "Thank you" or "That is nice (to hear)"

Doesn't that seem like rejection to her? She hasn't said something like that, especially first, in I don't know how long. And she finally musters up the courage to say it...and my response is that?

I'm not disagreeing with you, just trying to think about it from all angles.

It would take me by surprise too, but at the same time I have been taken by surprise by so much that it wouldn't surprise me to be surprised.

[jp787]

"but I'm really in a mode where I have my feelings towards her shut down externally."
Guess I was thinking from this statement.
Right or wrong if my wife said that to me, I would look her in the eyes and softly tell her that I miss/love her too.

[AnotherStander]

I responded with: "I am sorry you feel that way, but [W], you are a beautiful, intelligent, strong...a VERY desirable woman, and I can't be around much anymore to remind you of that as often as you deserve to hear it, so you need to stop beating yourself up with thoughts like that."

I almost wrote "silly thoughts" or "ridiculous thoughts", but didn't want to call her feelings either of those words (learned from this forum about validating feelings, though I don't know if the above is a very good job of that).

That is most definitely not a validating response, it's really kind of the opposite of validating as I described above. It's a tricky question she's asking though, in text it's hard to tell where the question is coming from. If it was a superficial "do these pants make my butt look big" question then your response was fine.

What I wrote was honest and direct, but I don't think it's very good "validating."

Exactly.

What about if spouse says "I miss you" or "I love you"? Reciprocating those feelings would be truthful, but I'm really in a mode where I have my feelings towards her shut down externally.

In the 10 months since BD I have heard neither of those phrases from W, so I don't really know what to tell you, LOL! I would have loved to hear those months ago and would have immediately responded in kind. Now? I don't know how I'd respond. I would be shocked to hear them, I know that much.

[PatientMan]

Well, she called earlier and said, "I know you're going to yell at me, but I'm just telling you how I feel..." and then she went on about why she feels the way she feels about the way she feels she looks. So I said, "I can certainly understand why that is frustrating...to put so much effort into something and feel like you're not getting the results you want."

I think it's good that she still calls to vent. If she needs to vent, I'm here. If she needs me for anything, I'm here. I am not pursuing, and that's changed the dynamic of things quite a bit (it's been about 3 months since I read the book and found the forum), but that doesn't mean I am not here and in support of her.

This is definitely not the reason I am doing it, but not pursuing does cause her to temperature check me from time to time. The distance and pursuit dynamic certainly seems to be in effect.

It's interesting to feel like I am a step removed from all of this...almost like I'm watching it from a distance. She's on the roller coaster and I'm watching from behind the protected area. I'm there, just not on it with her.

In the 10 months since BD I have heard neither of those phrases from W, so I don't really know what to tell you, LOL! I would have loved to hear those months ago and would have immediately responded in kind. Now? I don't know how I'd respond. I would be shocked to hear them, I know that much.

I was just looking to see if there was a general rule on this, and it appears not. I'll look through the piecing forum.

Thanks!

[PatientMan]

Kind of a bad day today for me today. W's L pressed for details for the divorce decree and so I discussed that over email. Based on another thread I found out I can look online and see if a divorce petition has been filed, which I find out it was back in February. Our state has a 60 day waiting period from the time of petition. I didn't know that the 60 days was from the filing of petition and I also didn't know that she had actually filed.

She hasn't discussed the divorce petition filing with me, when the 60 days is in effect, when that period is over, or what to expect. She hasn't kept me in the loop at all. And since I don't ask about the R, I haven't brought it up.

Also today I found out that one of her employer's paychecks has not been hitting our joint bank account, meaning she's funneling money into a personal account knowing that finances for her will be tough post-D. I understand that this provides her with some security, but it's just the deceit that keeps hurting me.

I'm trying to let me feelings subside, but I am hurt and confused as to why the deceit keeps coming.

1) Talking to the OM while we are still M.
2) Moving forward with the divorce without keeping me in the loop as to her plans.
3) Setting aside personal money while our joint account pays our bills (and we are scraping by given we are paying for two living spaces).

I'm past fooling myself into thinking there is much hope, but I have repeatedly stressed honesty as the most important thing to me, and I'm having trouble with the continuous deceit.

I need to recover emotionally so I can think about this rationally, but are there any suggestions? I'm in a bad spot right now. When I feel betrayed like this I have trouble being around her and want to cut off communication.

[PatientMan]

So I'm stuck.

Option 1: continue with my plan/strategy. Be someone only a fool would leave. Do not fuel her fire. 1st Corinthians tells me that love keeps no record of wrongs, that it always hopes, and always perseveres.

Patient endurance. Never give up. So stay the course?

Option 2: further change the dynamics of the relationship, essentially drawing my line in the sand and saying "enough is enough". I want to be friends with her (I want to be MORE than friends with her), but friends don't betray and sneak and plan. Tallula reminded me that I am not her "option." I am better and have more value than to simply be an option on someone else's hook.

Who does Patient Man want to be? Where are my principles? What are my goals? Am I rationalizing bad behavior because of my emotional state?

I am having trouble answering these questions right now.

Tonight, W wants to hang out and watch TV and I agreed to earlier in the week. I have another option to go out with friends tonight, and right now - though I'm not the going out type - I don't really want to be around her. But those are my feelings, and I know feelings change. The truth does not.

Her wanting to hang out may be a good thing. Or she may just be lonely. Or she may just feel guilty about how she thinks I feel given the divorce talk is ramping up and the 60 day term is nearing. That is all speculation that I don't care to expend energy on because I'll never truly know, but those are all possibilities. If I could actually "know", then I would hang out with her if she really wanted to hang out. If it is pity then I don't want any part of it.

I guess my biggest problem with drawing my line in the sand is that I am afraid I will undo the hard work I have put in. Perhaps she does want to spend time with me, and if I react poorly to that it sends a bad signal that could be detrimental to my goal of reconciliation.

Who is PatientMan?

Is he someone willing to step away further when she may be ready to draw nearer, a potentially colossal error in strategic timing? Is he someone who realizes his value and sticks to his principles, sets his boundaries, and enforces them? Is he just a doormat too afraid to make a bold move?

I may be all of these things, I just don't know what to do.

I certainly am not outsourcing my decision making process to you, I am merely looking for the advice of people in similar situations who have an outsider's viewpoint.

Thank you.

-PM

[PatientMan]

She emailed me the divorce decree last night about 9pm. It's dated May 1. That hit me a lot harder than I expected.

[PatientMan]

Regarding the post from Thursday, I chose to leave after putting the kids to bed. The show she wanted to watch was a rerun anyway. She could tell something was wrong because it wasn't two minutes after I left that she texted me asking if I was mad at her. I simply responded with "no." Over the weekend, I spent my time and energy with the girls, choosing not to "hang out" with her at all. This isn't that huge of a deal given our weekends are busy with her working half days on Saturdays and Sundays, the kids activities, and church. My girls stayed at my place Friday night and I had my date with D7 on Saturday.

She can definitely sense that I am creating distance, and I abhor feeling this way, I just feel like I can't be around her right now. I'm sure she thinks I'm reacting to the child support talk and the receipt of the divorce decree, which is not the case. The sum of all the things I know (that she doesn't know I know) has simply added up to too much for me right now. I WANT to trust her, and I have tried, but I keep feeling betrayed. (I could add in some very typical WAW behaviors and rationalizations here, but will spare the space for now.)

I also hate that my different attitude towards her feels like it is pushing her away. I guess it just stimulates the fear that once she's gone things will really never be the same. I suppose it's just hard to let that go. I feel like I am stuck in this no-win situation right now. If I pretend I am okay, then I am not being genuine. If I let it be known that I am not okay, then I am pushing her away.

I do know that, once the divorce is final, she can no longer be the #1 priority in my life. I have to refocus that on my daughters. I "know" that, but it isn't easy. It's hard to watch unfold. I like doing things for her and showing her that I love her in my own way. Maybe one day I'll get to do that again, or even say it again. Maybe not.

She wants to remain friends and have things be "okay." She wants this to be as painless as possible. Let me emphatically state that I am not and would not ever make a decision simply to make things more difficult, I just don't agree that things post-D will be as rosy as she hopes.

My mind toggles back and forth between the idea of OM being around (which I am not sure of) and feeling okay with myself believing she's making a huge mistake here. The idea of OM can tear me apart sometimes, and I'm trying not to let it. I experience success and failure in my attempts, which is quite typical.

I am definitely bouncing back faster from my low points, so that is a positive.

I asked this in another thread, but should I tell her why I creating distance, if she asks me? Some examples of my possible replies:

1) "You have engaged in behavior that I said was unacceptable to me, and so I don't care what you do any longer. I have decided that I am going to live my life....and I'm going to do what makes me happy." (this was based on what Sandi2 mentioned here. I wouldn't say this in a rude way, just as a matter of fact.

I could be more generic:

2) "I'm just sorting through a lot of things right now and need some space in order to process it."

My actions are driven by many DB ideas, but the few that always rise to the top are:

1) Don't fuel her fire (don't make it easy to divorce me by being a jerk)
2) Be a man only a fool would leave
3) Keep the road paved home smooth

I wonder if sometimes those are in conflict with each other, or if I just haven't figured out the right combination yet.

It's quiet here. Advice/thoughts very welcome.

Thanks,

-PM

[PatientMan]

I am here for her no matter what, but I am not here to be used and walked over. She has to treat me with respect and honesty, and I do not believe that has been the case...at least in full. I DO believe she has been trying to sort through her feelings, but she has done that while in contact with the other man, and that is where the line has been crossed. She has stayed with him emotionally while using me for financial support until she was capable of stepping away and being on her own/supporting herself. I do not believe she intentionally “used” me, but it is effectually what she has done. This was and is wrong. I WANT her to be happy, but using me, being dishonest to me, dishonoring me and our relationship, stringing me and the kids along...all these are wrong.

If I let her know I know about her contact with the other man, this may make her angry and help burn the bridge to me. Am I okay with this? Should I just be vague about what I know? I don’t know.

Being there for her no matter what (as I promised myself I would do) doesn’t mean she can do whatever she wants and I'm just here waiting as the pathetic little backup option. There is merit to never quitting, and I am not quitting (and I take pride in that). A relationship is a two way street and she has to do her part.

What she has done crossed my line. If she can’t see or doesn’t want what I have to offer, then I let her go. I don’t want to, but I have to. I can love her and let her be.

-PM