Home again, and tired, and headed to my regular IC appt. Had a good time on our trip.
Adinva 51, S20, S18 M24 total 6/15/11-12/1/12 From IDLY to H moving out 9/15/15-3/7/17 From negotiating SA to final D at age 50 5/8/17-now: New relationship with an old friend __ Happiness is a warm puppy.
Glad you had a good trip, bet the IC appointment was perfect timing!!
M: 9 yrs T: 13 yrs H:34 Me:35, S4, D2, S 7 months Dday 11/12-PA & multiple PAs Dbing 12/12 S 1/13 7/13 H moved back in basement. 8/13 #3 born 10/13 still cheating 10/13 He moves across country, I file for D
In ICU today we hit on a few points I wanted to journal. i was mostly coming at this trip from a feeling of discombobulation because I wasn't sure if he wanted me to be there I wasn't sure if I wanted to be there or if I should be there or if the kids needed me to be there and then the same for all the variables about what being there would look like. I didn't really think too much about how the kids would do being there because I felt it was necessary for them to spend some of spring break with their dad. I must say that the decision to not stay in the room with them was validated a few times - first was by the fact that the bathroom door wouldn't shut because they put in a pull-up bar in the doorway. I had to go to the bathroom pretty bad by the time i figured out how to get it off the doorway. the problem seem to be solved then but I didn't feel that welcome or comfortable. second was H did decide to take a shower after the day in the park while we were watching movies in the room and did dress in front of me and did hang around in his boxer shorts the rest of the time and it was uncomfortable for me and I was very glad to have my own space to go to.
There were things that I did not like very much about being with H that were illustrated on our trip and I discussed these with my counselor. Though I had decided to be very tolerant of differences in our ways of interacting with the kids so that our vacation would be nice and I wouldn't create conflict and we could just get along.
One was with S 12 when I first got there they had just gotten off the brand-new ride which has a surprise feature that s12 immediately wanted to tell me about and H reacted angrily with a look and a warning to get him to stop before he said something and then an attack after he did say it for having ruined the surprise. I saw that S looked a little glum about being scolded about that and it really doesn't bother me being told about the ride before riding it. My son knows me well enough to know I really don't care about things like that. i just gave him a hug and a smile and we got on the ride and we didn't say anything to H to challenge him. What occurred to me later is that through our whole relationship there was a pattern where H would want to control what I said and many times I got a look or an interruption or a kick under a table that caused a shame attack in me for somehow having said the wrong thing and I saw him doing it to my son. The Takeaway is to work with my son to build up his confidence so he learns to have faith in his judgment to say what he wants to say or else to be comfortable saying something that his dad would like to make him not say. It should even be okay to say the wrong thing and regret and learn from that.
That was little but it was just a reminder of the feeling of being disrespected or being not quite good enough that was just constant in our house until H moved out and I personally kind of like it better now.
The other was this goofing-around crotch grab that H does when the kids won't get out of bed when he tells them to. h calls that a "cup of coffee" as in "Oh yeah? You don't want to get out of bed? Well how about a cuppa coffee you want a cuppa coffee?" and he did it to s15 when it was time to get out of bed to go to the parks. that physical grabbing and joking really bothers me we have been round and round about it for years. I feel is inappropriate and disrespectful and H thinks I'm being overly sensitive and going to make pansies out of them. He doesn't see it my way that anybody else who did that to our kids would look like a molester and I've never been so strong in how I worded my objections to him. This time he upped the ante by adding a joke of that if s15 was smiling that meant he liked it and it would continue which really bothered me. when I was a kid I was molested in a tickling way and I never told anyone bc i was so embarassed, or got any help in dealing with it. i became completely enraged anytime anyone tried to tickle me after that and had to warn people I might accidentally break their nose if they tried. the feeling of being powerless to stop someone who is doing something bad is very great in me and what h was doing really brought those feelings back and so I decided to leave the room and wait for them downstairs and today discussing it in counseling I was completely ashamed of myself for choosing that instead of stopping h. However I have always been conflicted with h because I know what happened to me is not the same as what is happening to my son and my feelings about it are probably different than S15's and knowing that the situation is different I question the validity of my feelings and feel like I need to ignore them That's how we got 15 years down the road with this issue and that's how I felt it was okay to leave the room and wait for them downstairs. It was just H acting exactly like he's always acted and not doing anything at all out of the ordinary for him but I was hoping that us being separated and him not having seen his kids in months he would be on better behavior it's clear that his behavior is going to be exactly what it is . My counselors recommendation was to focus more on the kids side of things to encourage them and and empower them to speak up for themselves and so I did ask my son today if he had fun on the trip regardless of the sheer torture of a family trip when youre a teenager and he said yes so I asked him if he felt like dad Was being pretty respectful on the trip and he gave me a grunt in the affirmative so I said well I think it's time for the cuppa coffee idea to go and son snickered and I said no really I think it's kind of inappropriate and immature and you can tell dad to knock it off to which s15 said I don't care so I said well I just think it it's okay to ask for more respectful and mature behavior from dad.
He's got to learn no means no with his peers, and how is he going to learn that when no doesn't mean no to his own dad? He's got to learn that his body is his to control who's going to touch him and where and how can we be sure he knows that if he can't say that to dad? And I will hate to see him treat his own kids that way when he's a dad and know that it was because I let it happen when he was a kid.
So overall yes it was a good time and it was good for the kids to hang out with their dad but it did raise issues for me that have been the exact same issues for two years now since the bomb and part of our relationship problems leading up to the bomb. It just seems hopeless to have such a long list of things id like to correct h for and hold back to choose my battles, or try to see from his perspective, or try not to be controlling. Nakes me feel hopeless that im capable of having a positive relationship with him at all.
Adinva 51, S20, S18 M24 total 6/15/11-12/1/12 From IDLY to H moving out 9/15/15-3/7/17 From negotiating SA to final D at age 50 5/8/17-now: New relationship with an old friend __ Happiness is a warm puppy.
You're not overreacting, grabbing a 15 year old boy in the crotch is inappropriate in any context. Why your H feels that's funny or playful is disturbing. Have you ever told H that it bothers you and why it does? Have you told him about the molestation you endured and how it's given you a hair trigger in that regard? Be explicit about how you feel and don't fear that it's wrong or inappropriate. Your job is to let him know, his job is to respect it. If you do your job and he doesn't do his that does not reflect poorly on you at all.
Married 18, Together 20, Now Divorced M: 48, W: 50, D: 18, S: 16, D: 12 Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 7/13/11 Start Reconcile: 8/15/11 Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 5/1/2014 (Divorced) In a New Relationship: 3/2015
Yes I mentioned it to him various times over the years and this area of disagreement was a source of friction between us.
To bring it to a more general level, we disagreed that "playful" bad treatment at home is a way to toughen up a kid to hold his own among his peers. Horseplay, crotch grabbing, peeing on people in the shower, goodnatured namecalling like dummy and dumb@ss, sarcastic joking, many examples of things I was too lame and hypersensitive to understand about the ways of men. My H has charm, humor and charisma, and his wild and crazy antics are appealing. The "normal" bar can get ratcheted up over years and you don't even realize how not ok it is because you've been living in the middle of it. Our friend who's a psychologist got in on the conversation a few times when we had dinner get-togethers, and she confirmed that abusing or bullying your child is no way to inoculate him against abuse or bullying. H just disagreed with her too. What do you do when it's your husband, the father of your kids, and he's 99% fine and in some areas even better at parenting than you? It all starts to look like grey area.
Also, though, and here's my reason for feeling my future is different, during my marriage I thought speaking up was communicating. I thought saying hey knock it off, or I really don't like that, or expressing anger, or saying I wanted a rule against something, was communicating. So I would communicate this over and over like bouncing a ball off a wall. I think I have learned better to try something different, to work harder at communication that goes two ways rather than lobbing my ideas over to him, to ask for agreement or ask for feedback. To not accept an ok-FINE.
I don't know for sure if I ever told H what happened to me - I really held it as a secret my whole life. Another one of our repeated disagreements over the years was his love of grabbing me roughly or tickling me and telling me you gotta take the good with the bad when I would object to that. I know that I told him as strongly as possible that he really needed to stop doing that, but he is who he is. If I told him exactly why I react that way, and maybe I did, I don't recall - it was very embarassing to me (that probably seems funny but it's like lizard-brain thinking). I definitely tried (and failed) to get him to connect the dots that doing those things virtually guaranteed I wouldn't be in the mood for what he was seeking. This disagreement did come up in our marriage counseling session, maybe our first one.
I wasn't sure if I had ever been so clear as to explain that being molested as a kid created that violently fearful response, but I did say so in this counseling session and the message I got from IC was that I needed to learn that H is not the person who molested me. I needed to learn to be OK with physical treatment that was similar to what happened to me but was innocent and meant affectionately. I said why can't I just not want to be tickled and people just don't tickle me?
But that was when we were just working on getting h to talk about what was wrong with our marriage in his view, and validating that. It wasn't the time to get things I needed, that is for the future.
Adinva 51, S20, S18 M24 total 6/15/11-12/1/12 From IDLY to H moving out 9/15/15-3/7/17 From negotiating SA to final D at age 50 5/8/17-now: New relationship with an old friend __ Happiness is a warm puppy.
Chemo started last Thursday, and mom seems really good. Cheerful and sweet. She has new shoes she just loves. She thinks my dad is handsome even though he's finally starting to lose some of his hair. Her knee hurts. She tells strangers she's going to lose her hair. She's excited a wig is on order that looks just like her hair. My dad is terrified of being hospitalized because he needs to be able to take care of her; I told him not to worry because my sister and I could step in if that happens, but that's small comfort and I know it. I bring them flowers from my garden and my dogs to pat. My mom loves my dogs, she gives them constant attention. My dad feeds them under the table. Grand-dogs are like grand-children that way.
I spent most of Easter in the ER with them. They'll be OK. Watched tennis and read magazines with my mom while we waited for my dad to find out that on x-ray his back looks like it should hurt, nothing out of the ordinary. Situation normal, all f'd up.
I am surviving the last day of spring break. Chased a teenager with a carton of beer out of my house Saturday night. There haven't been any candles, open windows, funky smells, in the basement but they still try to get alcohol. Interrupted a bro-shower and explained to them that it's no longer allowed and why. The blank stares I get are surreal; I don't know how I would have reacted to a friends' mom lecturing me about drugs but I guess a blank stare is a pretty standard part of the teenage armamentarium.
I love Easter, it's a bittersweet holiday that was my Grandma's favorite. I love it more than Christmas. The hymns are ringing in my head even though I didn't make it to church. Decided the blue bunny peeps taste better than the yellow chick peeps. I got a huge amount of spring cleanup done in my garden, and this time I'm doing first the parts that I see the most. The dogs appreciate having fresh mulch to race through; I think it must feel good between their toes.
Adinva 51, S20, S18 M24 total 6/15/11-12/1/12 From IDLY to H moving out 9/15/15-3/7/17 From negotiating SA to final D at age 50 5/8/17-now: New relationship with an old friend __ Happiness is a warm puppy.
My self help book this week is The Comedy Bible: From Standup to Sitcom - The Comedy Writer's Ultimate "How To" Guide. I'm having an absolute blast reading the funny parts to my S12 and watching his deadpan "that's not funny mom." I got him to smile almost, one time, but he denied it. Another one would surely have been funny if I didn't have to stop and explain to him what freebasing means. Who knew, with a WAH, rebellious teens, cancer/alzheimer's, money trouble, job trouble, weight issues, and depression, I'm sitting on a comedy goldmine. Wow, everything looks different now!
Adinva 51, S20, S18 M24 total 6/15/11-12/1/12 From IDLY to H moving out 9/15/15-3/7/17 From negotiating SA to final D at age 50 5/8/17-now: New relationship with an old friend __ Happiness is a warm puppy.
You sound much better. I am glad things are slowly starting to move forward and find their place.
Hang in there - spring is here.
Me & H: 44 D7, D6, S3 Together: 20y, M: 17y EA: 11/13/10, Sep: 12/23/10 EA becomes PA: Spring 2011 H filed for D: 09/06/12 D Negotiating began 2/15 OW seemingly gone on 3/15 Still negotiating D
I was just catching up on your sitch and upon reading about your H grabbing your sons crotch and then the notion of peeing on people in the shower I could not read another word. I am absolutely mortified by this. How long has this behavior been going on? Did he do this to them as children?
While your sons might shrug it off for the moment you can be certain that this form of inappropriate touching and behavior by THEIR FATHER who is supposed to teach them to guard and respect their bodies will have deep and lasting impacts. At the very least they are learning that this form of touching by people who weild power over them is ok.
As their mother please make it stop. Would you tolerate them touching their children, your grandchildren, this way in the future? What would be the result if your H were to try this with someone else's child? Or if your sons were to try it with their peers? Or with kids younger than them? Or is this "a secret", something that stays in the family?
Abuse is about power. The crotch grabbing, peeing on others, name calling, is all about power. It is abusive. It is not light hearted goofing around. And did I see "bro-shower"? Do your teenage sons shower together? I'm hoping its a euphemism for something else as boys entering sexual maturation really shouldn't be showering together.
And your IC telling you that you need to learn to be ok with physical aggression that triggers bad memories for you??? GET ANOTHER IC!!! That person is not validating your experiences and is saying your boundaries dont matter. Clearly s/he is not experienced with the fallout of abuse and victimization. Anybody who is would tell you in no uncertain terms that your H is treating you and your children inappropriately.
Ad, you are so strong and you've been through so much. But this abuse, it's horrible. Please see it for what it is. The thing with bullies and abusers is they are really averse to change.
me 45 H 46 T 5 M 2.5 BD Sept 6 2011 OW Sept 8 2011 Threw him out Sept 8 2011
AD, I know you wrote about your H's, questionable behaviour in this forum because it is safe. I will not judge your H but what he could very well feel is benign behaviour.
The biggest question to ask him... or your son's... is if he would be willing to tell people about this type of horse play in a public forum.
If he would be ashamed or unwilling to do so, then he understands that it is unlikely socially acceptable.
