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A Message from Michele
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Thanks #2323518
02/19/13 08:36 PM
02/19/13 08:36 PM
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PatientMan Offline OP
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I'm 14 months into the period that follows the BD (Dec. 5th, 2011), but only happened upon the DR book a month ago and subsequently this website from that book. I see so many similarities in so many stories on here that it's both comforting and a little odd at times, but reading through these boards has turned out to be a big help in terms of knowledge, confidence, and hope. Thank you all for your contributions.


M:12y - BD:12/11 - D:6/13 - 4Ds

"The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy." -MLK Jr.
Re: Thanks [Re: PatientMan] #2325010
02/25/13 04:23 AM
02/25/13 04:23 AM
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I found the book to be quite empowering and was worried that perhaps I was fooling myself into thinking I had some sort of control over a situation in which I have very little, but something has clicked in the last few weeks and I don't think it's any coincidence that I read the book and found this message board around that same time. I'm certainly not going to complain about it because I haven't felt this good/not awful in over a year and I'll take what I can get at this point.

I'll probably provide some more detail of my situation later on when I have more time and I am off moderation...it took five days for my initial post to be approved. But again, many thanks to all. I have been picking a thread or two a day to read in this forum as well as some of the others such as the advice in the archives. I lurked a bit before I registered.

Regards,

tmd


M:12y - BD:12/11 - D:6/13 - 4Ds

"The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy." -MLK Jr.
Re: Thanks [Re: PatientMan] #2325266
02/25/13 10:04 PM
02/25/13 10:04 PM
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*sigh*

I'm doing really well most of the time, but she calls and talks to me about paying the L and it throws me all out of sorts. I doubt I seemed "off" at all on the phone (though I think she sensed something because she called me after that and IM'd me as well), but I'm trying to figure out how to NOT let that affect me or be able to "reboot" back to mentally doing well faster instead of lingering in the downward spiral.

Still, much better than before. Already "rebooted" after a couple of meetings at work.


M:12y - BD:12/11 - D:6/13 - 4Ds

"The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy." -MLK Jr.
Re: Thanks [Re: PatientMan] #2325377
02/26/13 04:30 AM
02/26/13 04:30 AM
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Hello and welcome! It's kind of hard to offer much advice since you haven't really posted any details on your sitch, but your M has clearly been in trouble for quite some time. Since you just read DR a month ago, do you feel that what you were doing before that time was damaging behavior? Many of us did all the begging/ pleading/ negotiating stuff that is really harmful before finally finding DR. Hopefully you've made adjustments since reading DR. Please post some more detail about your sitch, what faults you had in the M and what you're doing about those faults (180's). Regarding paying for a lawyer, again you haven't posted much info but typically our advise is not to do anything to assist the WAS in pursuing for D, that should be completely on them. Good luck!


Me: 58 w/ S16, D22, D25
Current R: 4 years
Previous M: 21 years; BD: 06-14-12; S: 09-10-12; D final: 03-17-14; XW:56
Re: Thanks [Re: AnotherStander] #2325388
02/26/13 05:33 AM
02/26/13 05:33 AM
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The family unit still operates using joint bank accounts. After the most recent, and most followed through with D talk (1.19.13), she opened a single account for her, but her pay is still hitting the joint family accounts.

She told me she had received money from family to cover the L fees, but the call today was to inform me that the new L's initial payment was more than she had in her account and she was wondering how to pay for it (i.e. is it okay to give them our joint account information [she was checking in with me and essentially asking, not telling me what she was going to do]). This caught me off guard because, as you pointed out, I do not agree with the D I do not want to facilitate it, but I also don't want to turn into an obstacle or an enemy to what she wants.

So technically she does earn money that could be used to pay for the D, but that money is currently combined with mine to pay the costs of running the family, which is currently stretched thin because we are paying for two living situations.

Goodness, it's hard to even address basic topics because I feel like so much more context is necessary to adequately describe each situation, but that was the short answer and I hope I communicated that message clearly. I'm sure the dynamics of everyone's situations are extremely complex, and mine are certainly no different.

Thanks for posting. When I have more time I'll start to dive into the details, though I'll likely post in segments so as not to wear myself, or readers, out. It appears I'm off moderation, so YAY! smile

Regards,

tmd


M:12y - BD:12/11 - D:6/13 - 4Ds

"The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy." -MLK Jr.
Re: Thanks [Re: AnotherStander] #2325391
02/26/13 06:00 AM
02/26/13 06:00 AM
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Real time update on today's action post phone call(context: wife and kids live in a nice, large, suburban rental house, I live in an apartment nearby):

I'm currently working full time and in graduate school, thus tonight I wasn't able to head back home until after 9PM. One of my daughters is sick and she wanted some apple juice, so I stopped by the grocer on the way home, brought it by the house, made it (from concentrate), and left it in the refrigerator for her tomorrow. The kids were, of course, asleep, so I took the opportunity to go into their rooms and kiss each one of them on the cheek or forehead as they slumbered, something I don't normally get to do on a school night for me.

I came back downstairs and W was awake. She had made a delicious chili and offered that I take some with me for food later in the week and I gladly filled two Tupperware containers full of that goodness which is perfect for late February. She was in bed, but had left the light on so I took that as a cue to check on her and say "good night" before I left. I asked her if she wanted the fan left on and she said "yes," and after I turned out the light I tucked her in. She started to gently cry.

(Disclaimer: I have read enough to know that this very likely doesn't mean anything with regards to feelings for me, but is more likely a function of going through a very difficult time, dealing with guilt, loneliness, an inability to rekindle feelings for me, realization of the very real effects of D, the general pain of the situation, as well as countless other stimuli.)

I just lay down next to her and massaged her a little bit. (More context: She works a very physically demanding job and the stress from this along with mothering four children in a house with a father not present in his ideal role is very challenging...I can't even imagine. Tangentially, one of my 180's has been to give her less of this type of attention, but I thought an exception was appropriate in this case.) I didn't say a word, we just lay there in silence for maybe 45 minutes and then I covered her back up and told her to get some sleep. I then grabbed my chili and headed back to my apartment where I sit typing this out now.

Good night, all.

-tmd


M:12y - BD:12/11 - D:6/13 - 4Ds

"The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy." -MLK Jr.
Re: Thanks [Re: AnotherStander] #2325452
02/26/13 02:23 PM
02/26/13 02:23 PM
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PatientMan Offline OP
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She did respond to last night's "event" how I expected she would, which is in line with how she has reacted throughout this process. She apologized for last night...said that sometimes she is "okay" and other times she is "not okay", but that she was sorry for breaking down in front of me. I told her I understand this is very hard and she has nothing to apologize for. She called me later to discuss the paperwork to be turned in to the L (this part is the "par for the course" behavior...having a quasi-backlash after an event that she thinks I might interpret as "hope" [mind-reading on her part, but typical based on so many stories] to reenforce to me or her or both of us that the D is her final decision).

I filed our taxes yesterday and am thinking of giving her half the refund for her personal account. I haven't mentioned anything to her about it, but given my post from last night (not yet approved by mods) I thought perhaps someone here might provide some insight that I can consider.

Regards,

tmd


M:12y - BD:12/11 - D:6/13 - 4Ds

"The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy." -MLK Jr.
Re: Thanks [Re: AnotherStander] #2325461
02/26/13 02:50 PM
02/26/13 02:50 PM
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Also, I am not complaining about the moderation (this is a free site and I have derived more than my fair share of value from it), I'm just explaining why my posts may appear to be a bit fragmented.

-tmd


M:12y - BD:12/11 - D:6/13 - 4Ds

"The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy." -MLK Jr.
Re: Thanks [Re: AnotherStander] #2325772
02/27/13 02:58 PM
02/27/13 02:58 PM
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Made a couple of mistakes yesterday, but doing better with not getting caught up in it or over thinking it. Mistake #1 was sending a response text to her I shouldn't have (but if I hadn't it would have eaten me alive for a while). Mistake #2 was lingering at the house last night after the kids went to bed.

Things "feel" weird, but I'm trying not to mind-read and just stick to my plan. However, and this is no surprise, the plan is all fine and dandy until I'm around and her eyes are sparkling like they were last night.

-tmd


M:12y - BD:12/11 - D:6/13 - 4Ds

"The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy." -MLK Jr.
Re: Thanks [Re: AnotherStander] #2325895
02/27/13 08:18 PM
02/27/13 08:18 PM
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Originally Posted By: AnotherStander
Hello and welcome!

Thanks for your reply!

Originally Posted By: AnotherStander
It's kind of hard to offer much advice since you haven't really posted any details on your sitch, but your M has clearly been in trouble for quite some time.

Since you just read DR a month ago, do you feel that what you were doing before that time was damaging behavior?


I was doing some things well and other things I was completely messing up, though that seems to be par for the pre-DB course. I believe the net effect was negative.

Originally Posted By: AnotherStander
Many of us did all the begging/ pleading/ negotiating stuff that is really harmful before finally finding DR. Hopefully you've made adjustments since reading DR.


I did a lot of that internally, but I royally messed up some things externally as well:

  • Broke down emotionally in front of her.
  • Lost my cool.
  • Chased (wrote letters, notes, made cd's, had flowers at the house regularly, told her I would wait for her/made promises)
  • Waited/didn't GAL & detach

Of course all of that created pressure, exactly the opposite of the space she needed, though I did give what felt like an incredible amount of space. I was mostly patient, understanding, and empathetic, realizing that my mistakes led to this outcome, ultimately falling into the depression trap again by being extremely hard on myself, which is in my nature (one of the things I'm trying to improve on). I felt like I was executing my plan well 95% of the time, but I would build up emotionally and eventually snap in the form of that list above.

It probably didn't help that I told and talked to almost no one throughout this time. I had one person who really helped me get through points where I was drowning and kept me grounded in my faith. A couple of others offered help, but their advice was to drop her like a hot potato and that strategy didn't coalesce with my feelings or my beliefs. I finally told my parents after 10 months last October, and one of my sisters last month. We don't have family close to us...most of them are out of state. Telling three family members, people who do care about me, has been somewhat relieving, which came as a welcome surprise.

We have been in limbo-land for most of the 14 months, and that is extremely draining mentally and emotionally, especially without any sort of plan. Plans suit me well so I am doing much better DB'ing, knowing that my actions have a purpose and are helping me work towards the goals that I have.

I did do some things well, but obviously not enough or I wouldn't be here grin:
  • I knew very early on that my problem, at least my main problem, was ME and not the OM. It wouldn't do any good to get her away from him if *I* wasn't somebody she was interested in being with anymore. If it wasn't him it would just be someone else, but it definitely wouldn't be me. Just because I KNEW this doesn't mean I did a good job of execution, though more on that later.
  • I refuse to quit. I quit on myself a while back and convinced her that me, the real me, was never coming back. I did such a good job of convincing her that she eventually quit on me and us. I can't quit now.
  • I made changes that put the family first, and I have been living them out. The sadness was so bad that at times I had to force it, but (for me) going through the motions sometimes kick-starts the "feeling" and so I've continued to go through the motions during those times I don't "feel" like, those times which are occurring less and less.
  • Re-prioritized my mind. This is in the same mold as the previous point, but slightly different. My wife has always been on a pedestal high above everything else, including God. I recognized this is not good, and the reprogramming isn't complete because my wife still takes up a good chunk of emotional hard drive space, but I've made progress and continue to do so. I look forward to hugs from kids so much at the end of the day, and it makes me feel great to feel that way (more on that later). Right now a hug and squeeze from my 3 year-old cures about any ailment that could curse the human race.
  • Was a good husband no matter how much I was hurting. I still stuck up for her and protected her from the outside while she was hurting too. Perhaps this may end up being a strategic error, but I stood by my wife no matter what, and I think that's honorable.


Originally Posted By: AnotherStander
Please post some more detail about your sitch, what faults you had in the M and what you're doing about those faults (180's). Regarding paying for a lawyer, again you haven't posted much info but typically our advise is not to do anything to assist the WAS in pursuing for D, that should be completely on them. Good luck!


Some 180's I have come up with:

Not doing little things for her (getting sauerkraut when she mentions she is out, filling up her van with gas)
Not offering to massage her
Not responding emotionally to troubling news
Listen to her instead of always trying to fix things
Be decisive!
Compliment her more.
Show more appreciation.

The 180's are me trying to figure out how to detach, but still be complimentary and appreciative, while not being a pushover or her "cake", while, of course, meeting my other goals of bettering myself as a person, a father, and a mate.

Thanks again for your reply and your questions. I feel like I have hardly even scratched the surface.


M:12y - BD:12/11 - D:6/13 - 4Ds

"The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy." -MLK Jr.
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