first time - need help still

[LoisB]

I can't fathom the stress of keeping track of so many lies. It must be absolutely exhausting. In my case, H even pretended he was in recovery for his drug addiction for a time. What a burden.

You sound stronger Nero! Keep on, keeping on... We'll get there!

Much Love,
Heather

[nero]

hey hi-

boy, do i ever agree totally with your assessment. the first husband- yes, i did find myself thinking "is this all there is and will ever be?" i have my committment issues too (this h as well). he didn't beat me or anything- but i found the violence - however minor- to be a really bad portent of things to come. but i did feel alot for that ex-guy - first love, etc - when i realized what i was feeling for new person might be love = that is what pushed me to move out and take a chance on new person. it was scary- i was poor & young - but the thought of using him was soooo ratty. we just knew each other in office- no giant flaming affair and promises, etc. (hey- and my ex even owned a gun - yikes!!!)

and it was easier for my heart to have someone waiting in the wings. BUT - i don't think it took away the awfulness of having to deliver such a blow to another human being. it's awful- i'm a woman that spends her existence trying to make everyone happy and fix eveerything in the universe. it was bad to feel i was teh "bad" guy - i cried the whole time i packed up and left him most of the furniture just because i felt so badly for him. now i know myself what it feels like first hand to have your life pulled out from under your feet.

i feel ashamed - but it had to happen in the end, i guess. i wasn't gong to wait around for the jealousy & alcohol and rage to "get me" for real. he was not "fair" in life to me - I was so young and trusting and deluded really about life & love - oh well- when i think of my current sitch & the lies & cheating - for how long? i think i'm most distressed by fact he didn't even see me as a person worthy of honesty & knowing he was feeling treasonous - he should have walked out years ago if this was all how he felt- if he had guts that is or decency- why make me the jerk for soooo long?

anyway-mlc - i know- it's allll so convoluted and confusing and unfair and out of this world- most days i do not even know where to begin to find the "way" - i float along one more day hoping some wisdom comes along and seeps into my head.

I hope you are rite about the memories. i'd say we had as good a r and sitch as anyone would have a right to expect from life. this has taken me by surprise. i always believed love would heal anything that could come along- we'll see. i may be still too romantic and optimistic. seems like life would be awful without any hope or optimism- but i might be nuts.

i used to be mad crazy in love with this man. i am not sure now what i feel for this not-h guy. he is someone i do not know- he surely is not the sweet man i fell in love with.

when he changed over- i am not sure. i'm not sure of anything anymore. i want my certainty back- and my life also please.

And I can't help but feel like these men who have affairs are affected by the fact that their wives keep standing even though they are acting cr&ppy. Somewhere in their mind, they know no one else would do that for them. But that's bad too, because they have no incentive to stop the behavior. It's a confusing mess for sure.

OH CRIPES - i've thought this over a million or two times. exactly- EXACTLY- what is there to make it stop? if I am "still standing" thru it all- then the assumption is that i'm just a happy & stupid doormat that will be there for eternity to wipe one's feet on. if i leave - then i'm the one that couldn't hack it when the chips were down. the unhappiest part is this- i cannot even fathom what is in his head & heart- i used to think i knew and knew him. to find i don't know him at all (and i mean AT ALL) AND then to try and figure out what's up with him and what's up with me - well, it's impossible. i'm soooo not used to feeling sooo powerless. well, when my sister died and my dad died (alcohol & cancer) i did know the feeling of watching that slow train wreck and being powerless. maybe this is like tht-

he is going to crash & burn and i'm going to watch and bleed and be unable to stop or fix or save. wah wah huh.

i hate to know i still care about him and still think we're "rite for each other" (oh God- don't i sound like simpering wreck?) yet- i don't feel love and desire for him. ( well, there is the desire to flatten him and hear him vocalize some suffering (never gonna happen tho). i want what i had back- i don't feel lke i did tho, i don't know what i want- but i sure want it badly....

it's just a giant sh_t tornado spinning over my head. wonder what will fly out next - wonder if i'll be dead or alive when it passes - just don't know anything.

EXCEPT - glad i found all you guys out there - and this forum - maybe it saved my sanity. ta da -

slightly damaged but still standing so far... woo hoo thanks for note.

xxo

[nero]

hey hi- boy are you ever right -

they are crazy as bed bugs. my h lies and lies and i don't even know if he remembers what he says - which means he doesn't even see people as worthy of honesty. i mean- wtf

he's jacked people around and been a narcissistic jerk forever- it wasn't directed to me- i thought it never would be.

It does hurt me when my H lies, but not like it used to. Plus, I've stopped taking it personally. I've seen him lie to others, know he lies to others.

you sayng that just now- little lite bulb over head here. i always take it incredibly (cripplingly ) personally. i never thought what you just said- that he does it to every one. that it's not a personal stab at me. it felt like it-

wonder if i can get to the place you are at- and it won't hurt so much. i think of myself as a person whose always the one left standing (tho i appear fruitie sometimes- i think inside i've got the iiron rod. even if i dither or don't decide- i've always thought i could butch my way thru anything.

this business of being sick, him going down to ow - this one sister i was close to being a jackass and totally crap_ing on my head (called with another "order" today and hung up on me because i said i couldn't drop what i was doing and run to my mom's rite that moment! for a stinkng pill that i don't think she should be taking btw) -it's all a bit much all of a sudden

watching my mom being so weak & sick- wondering if it would kill her or not(?) very wierd- but she's 88 - mean- could...

anyway- i crossed over some point there- the sheer crap from so many angles-

maybe i'll get "better" now. fingers crossed.

this h of mine wants to play house like it's all fine when he's here- then just disappear out of my life (what? my feelings - don't exist or aren't worth consideration donja know) and have his "other - better" life - wtf

he is a teenage jerk- he is crazy and also crazy

i'm a nice rock- but it was really really nice to have a backup rock. maybe because my dad died and we were sort of floundering around a bit- tho my mom was a great "rock" - i'm a bit insecure. i always think i can handle anything- but sometimes i am emotionally "laid low" and realize i need help - of one sort or another. i always hope knowing my weaknesses is some kind of strength. fingers crossed-

thanks for writing- i like feeling like i have some friends out there and much as it pains me to think of ANYONE else in the universe feeling this all - it's soooo comforting to know i'm saying it to people who do , in fact, know exactly what i'm feeling and thnking and saying. sanity central

yay for the flotation device

xxoo

[nero]

hi lois-

i don't even think this goober keeps track- just whams thru life- maybe all the stress pushed his hair out of his head- he's gotten pretty bald.

sometimes i look at him and wonder how i ever loved him. i've got something in side for him tho- still. don't know what.

i sure hope 'm stronger- i sure hope we all keep hahnging on and all 'GET THERE" - WHEREever the hell there is.

had ok afternoon with friend that got divorced a few months ago. she's more normal and less "on the edge" than last few years. what a difference- she's happy without ratty ex.

talked crafts - was nice. now, i'm going to mzke a potato pancake or die. blob up on startch & grease - yay

xxoo thanks for writin. good luck to you too- maybe we can all drag each other thru this and emerge all shiny & strong on other side...

[nero]

anyone out there care to tell me "you can do this"? today?

this is all so personal & icky- but since none of you even know me- what the heck... it's seeming to me an unsolvable problem (ever)

I just reread chapter on mlc in mwd book - i hear it - i am wierdly calm and today thinking perhaps i've "fought the good fight" and should just let it all fall thru the cracks and give it up.

i'm not "ready" mentally or financially. i don't even care about that... this morning. i'm just feeling at a total loss. she says don't pursue- then i read the sexual disenchantment part about women want to talk & feel connected in order to desire h - - whereas men want to feel desirable & touched in order to feel connected & talk. i think it's reasonable- i see the opposite way the sexes work. it's all so crazy for one person to have to try and manage on their own - untwangling something so deadly as a mlc & "at-odds" sex life as well.

i wonder if i (personally) can get myself to even attempt to breach this gap - OR IF when she says in mlc chapter - DO NOT PURSUE i should not even "go there" (yet?) . it's a stumper. the ed he experienced - ( i think) - was result of guilt (as well as longevity of relationship) - he said don't worry, it's no big deal. but i think in fact, it was a huge deal...

i'd say that is what impelled him into a serious ea (my opinion)

how to ever (now that i almost hate him alot of the time) figure out how to motivate myself to attempt to somehow encourage him without pursuing - ... (tho - probably jumping gun here - but I'd stake my life on it(sex) being "the thing" holding him in ow r.???? his fear of inability for "rest of his life" with me. wtf..??? she says we have to wait for them to change their minds about us- and the r and l - BUT , i honestly wonder if his fear will FOREVER scare him out of ever ever ever even going there again - but now that i'm saying it "out loud" to you - this would obviously be what she describes as the was "changing their mind" about us - do they think they're attracted and feel attracted.

i am 62 (in a few weeks) - i'm definitely not bad for my age- i'm not a movie star tho. I could wear a bikini and not have people screaming in pain - BUT i have a wrinkle or two-

i know- it's impossible sounding isn't it??? i fall back and do not in any way pursue or chase him. in my mind tho- i wonder if this one stupid thing (very big - but small -( know what i mean) part of this r is what is really at the root of alot of the "disenchantment" he's got . ??? i get it that for him to feel "unable" probably shakes his ego-confidence down to the roots of his hair.

which came first? the chicken or the egg- who the heck knows.

just mulling over my GIANT DELIMMA & fiasco-stinky life with this mlc stuff - i've been "enlightened" about what is going on with not-h and his life since july of 2011 - i mean full disclosure - (it feels like fifty years at least). it MAKES ME feel like i am 100 yrs old - unappealing - unappreciated - lousy company- ocd about my stupid family & mother - and alot of other crappy things.

Me- i think i'm not so bad. about as good or bad as anyone else- better than alot- and pretty much "what's not to like".

i know- wah wah nero- quit being a pity sponge. since you guys out there now know almost entirely the good and bad about me - moreso than any other human beings alive- i'm throwing it out there. ya can't divorce me - well, you certainly can avoid me-

anyone in particular have anything in particular to say?

[job]

nero,
Many of the things you are reading are for those not in crisis. Your spouse is in crisis and everything that you would normally do will be the exact opposite right now. Do not pursue, do not contact unless it is an emergency, do not bring up the subject of the relationship, and the list goes on and on. Why? Because your spouse is right now, the exact opposite of who he/she was prior to the crisis. They are now the mirror image, i.e., in other words, the adult has morphed into a child/teenager.

What happened to your spouse is not your fault. It happened a long, long time ago at an early stage. He/she was stunted emotionally by someone in authority. Their feelings/thoughts were not validated and some of them were expected to live up to very high standards when all they wanted to do is be a child and be heard.

Something triggered the crisis for him and it wasn't disenchantment. He thinks he missed out on something from long ago and now he's gone back in time to grow up. If your marriage was a bad one, he wouldn't have stayed as long as he has. The crisis hit, he had to explore the world somewhat like Columbus had to long ago.

You didn't break him, therefore you can't fix him. If you think that you have areas in your life that need some fine tuning, by all means work on them, but you did not cause his crisis, nor can you "win" him back over at this time. This is his journey to make w/o you in the passenger seat. Your journey is one of discovery and yes, you will need to work through your pain and not side step it like the mlcers. You will recover far quicker than the mlcer because you are facing your issues an day-to-day life head on.

You can do this and you will find that if you take each day as it comes and not look too far into the future, you will find it does get easier. Make a list of things you've not been able to do or complete and start working on them. Just remember, any changes that you make for yourself must remain permanent and are not done just to get him back.

Pick yourself up, dust yourself off and start walking. I'm sure you've got some things that you need to do today. You can do this!

[lostinscared]

Nero,

I don't see you as whining... I see you doing a brain dump of all that you are feeling. I think it's pretty amazing the way you are able to articulate all of that.

There are no guarantees in life. You could wait and it could still end. You could wait and he will pull himself out of this. We just don't know. It's a matter of you at this point. What are you able to handle? What are you able to live with?

I do so understand how you question yourself and your worth because of what has gone on. I turned 40 and I'm telling you, my H's affair with someone 10 years my junior really shook my core. It never really mattered what attention I got anywhere else, if my H didn't want me, then there must be something wrong with me. I've allowed him to be judge, jury and executioner in my life. And it's something that we need to work on. Because neither of our H's, or anyone else gets to decide our worth.

I know it's frustrating and can send us into a downright panic to watch the lives we had once slip away... to watch these men we loved slip away. But Snodderly is right, we cannot do anything about that. And I think sometimes they get to a place where there is nothing we can do/say that will get them to respond. So we have to do our own thing. And each day we need to decide what "our own thing" is. When things become overwhelming, just focus on one thing. Simplify the goals. Does it stink? Yep. I mean I had a boatload of options in front of me in deciding what to do next and all of them were not ideal in my opinion. But I hope that one day, I will see the light and realize everything will be ok. I will feel whole again. I've seen a lot of people on these boards move on and have good lives. And as much as we kick and scream and need to be dragged through the process, that will happen for us. I know how hard that is to imagine. I can't imagine it for myself most days. But it's the truth.

So, do one thing today that will make you feel better and get your mind off of your H and your situation.

I'm praying for you

LIS

[nero]

OMG snodderly-

thank you so much for your little "pep" talk rite this moment- IT IS SOOOOOOOOO "ON POINT" I can't believe it- I can now proceed with my day/life - this is the first time i've actually felt that perhaps - I can see his pain/confusion. before now- it's seemed like spoiled child-ed-ness. no kidding. just your one observation that is so close to home.

What happened to your spouse is not your fault. It happened a long, long time ago at an early stage. He/she was stunted emotionally by someone in authority. Their feelings/thoughts were not validated and some of them were expected to live up to very high standards when all they wanted to do is be a child and be heard.

are you a psychiatrist or a mind reader? THIS IS SOOOOO MY H - when i met him he HATED HIS father (now he's buddies but he's the "smart guy" and in the driver seat) my h was/is a smart kid - his father was such a demanding nazi of a guy (total egocentric priss-pot)(still is btw). NOTHING was good enough. when his parents split (he was 12) his mom took baby brother & cleared out in blink of eye- he didn't even suspect anything going on. he was left with hard As$ father... (who had threatened to expose mother as adultress, etc. so she just LEFT H and ran off with om - leaving him with this man she didn't even like!!??) (he hasn't spoken to her in about six years now)

he tells the story of getting an A and his father said "not good enough" so he replied "best you can get"- and hard ole father said, " if you were so smart - the teacher would have given you an A+ and created a new category just for you" (!) ... your comment resonates with me a hell of alot this morning. your comment & his (defining) story.

I also now stack up his confusion & pain as a kid having his mother just disappear & leave him with crap father (I compare it to how i feel with this mlc - BUT i can talk about it and do to handful of buddies - i have that support and it's still hard. he was a kid- kids can't talk about this junk AND he was with demanding & unreasonable & unloving father to boot.

saying this to you now - i feel like a rat to be so ready to overlook his lifelong messed up broken-little-kid-heart.

i also think - this father of his that he could never ever please or be good enough for. his wife died a couple years ago (my h HATED THIS step mother) (alot) - now my h has father "all to himself" - he continually fixes his father's computer and advises him (role reversal) now he's the "father" of his dad. maybe this is some part of it all - somehow - (me wondering - don't know how it all fits together)

i TRULY WANT to believe he's broken & in pain - in order to be able to carry on my part with a sense of some purpose. i need to believe it's not all a joke to him - (me that is).

i hate being second fiddle all of a sudden to alot of other characters in his life that he thinks are more important) and i don't like that this ea is someone he dredged from our past- old secretary - from years & years ago. i can't fit all the peices together to make sense to me -

thank you so much - i am amazed and taking it as a giant and positive "sign" that you happened to be out there and say this particular thing. for now - i's re-juvinated my resolve

I hate when i lose my compassion or cannot see beyond my tiredness -

this comment of yours that is soooo pertinent and applies so well. i hope you are right - that i didn't break him and can't fix him. i've stopped trying anyway - i do not talk or "go there" about r, m, love, whatever. It's just that i lose "heart" sometimes and feel floundering - about it all.

I have managed to see in myself an improvement on the "don't talk" & have patience front. i've done a 180 in life with my ability to hear incitement to argue and not get "involved". this has somehow happened by itself - NOW for first time in r i am the person to "step back" and remain calm in face of conflict. he gets hot under the collar (new and most unappealing). this one thing is amazing to me - role reversal!??

I can keep my own counsel - and i can keep my own distance/space. I have been going out more, lately feel creative again (a HUGE thing in my life) - walk daily w/friend up here and down in fl -so i'm not a total loser -
at this moment- he's been to see ow this weekend- so he hasn't called - i have not been my usual mad and creepy self about it. i've been kind of "detached" (i can't believe i'm saying it out loud and it is the word that describes it). i've felt badly to notice that i just am "done" caring about that mostly. no gut wrenching and no sick stomach. just think about it- and let it flow out of my head. it hurts - but doesn't "stop" .

i keep hoping i am not just realizing he is a bad person inside - rather than the guy i loved. i never say any of this junk to him - i act like i'm just going along in my life.

seriously- thanks so much. I'm back to life and still standing my ground here. you have saved me today.

xxoo ((( )))

[nero]

hi and thanks for response -

kind of you to say i'm not a giant whiner. feels like it- i'm too used to hearing other people's troubles. my own troubles and being obsessed with them is foreign and not very much fun. i do need to just "stop it" today.

my H's affair with someone 10 years my junior really shook my core. It never really mattered what attention I got anywhere else, if my H didn't want me, then there must be something wrong with me. I've allowed him to be judge, jury and executioner in my life. And it's something that we need to work on. Because neither of our H's, or anyone else gets to decide our worth

you're rite and along with allowing it sometimes to creep in and hurt me , - i do know it somewhere deep inside too - that it might just be his opinion "now" "mlc" and not worth a darn.

why i give "it" airtime i do not know. just lose it now or then.

And as much as we kick and scream and need to be dragged through the process, that will happen for us. I know how hard that is to imagine. I can't imagine it for myself most days. But it's the truth.

i agree - you sure have it rite - kicking and screaming. i know in my heart every day it could be alot worse. i know i have alot to be thankful for-

thanks for speedy reply- it must be karma or my good fortune to be "saved" today with a couple speedy responses. it means soooo much to feel understood & not alone - really. funny how a whole world of people is right outside the door - yet a gal can feel pretty "on my own" with it all.

anyway- i don't even know why today i am - CROSS that out- I WAS IN such a bad place- i feel lots better - thank goodness i looked back & found them.

you've made all the difference in one person's life today-

xxoo ((( )) hope your day is a good one & tnx

[job]

Nero,
You have saved yourself.

Your h is very "normal" for an mlcer. The comment about him working on his dad's computer, etc., very, very typical. His father was the authority figure that didn't validated him or affirm his accomplishments. So, the second time around being a child, he goes back in time to revisit that parent or authority figure, as you have seen w/your h. They have to resolve their feelings/emtoions about this person and why that person treated them so poorly. Your h will eventually do this w/his father.

Is his mother still alive? Did he have any contact w/her pre-crisis? He's going to have to deal w/his abandonment issues as he travels the path too.

Nero, he is definitely in emotional pain. Even though we can't see the injury it is deep within him and he's got to heal himself. We can't do it for them. You may never be able to "fit" the entire puzzle together. After 13 years, I still have one or two pieces that I'm still puzzling over, but I do know that when God is ready to reveal the answers he will.

You are a good person and I know you were a good wife to your h, so do not ever doubt yourself again. You didn't do anything to trigger this crisis nor did you create it. Let me just say this, if he had not reconnected w/the secretary, he would have found someone else. She's nothing special, but a passenger riding in a car on a dangerous road w/a lunatic at the wheel.

Hang in there.