trying to save my marriage Phase 2

[MrBond]

"I am incredibly remorseful and regretful for what I did and I intend to spend the right of my life making amends for it."

That's good.

"I love him and I respect him very much but I do not respect what he is doing now and what he is doing to our daughter."

That's your right to just as much as it's his right to have resented you when you were going through your MLC. Just to be clear, he's not doing this to your D. What's happening to your D is a result of your bad M. It doesn't make him a bad person and he's not doing it purposely to hurt your D.

"That is not my understanding of how he was as a father that is the reality."

See? It's YOUR understanding. You had a picture of what a father should be and he probably had his own. You had expectations. He doesn't need to live under your expectations any more than you would want to live under his.

"He really did not do anything with our daughter unless it was with me as well, never on his own."

Doesn't make him a bad father. It could very well be that he wanted it to be a "family" thing. I often invited my W along to things she didn't want to do because I wanted believed it was important to do things together as a family unit. My W didn't agree.

"And in 5 months where he is now supposed to be a "single" father, he has not been at all."

To him he is single. He's moving on.

"In 5 months he has never even taken our daughter outside of our home. there is a very good chance he did not bond with her after the adoption."

Possibly, but you're not his therapist.

"No he was not honest with me."

I think he was afraid to because you told him that you were going through something and was more interested in yourself at the time. He might have thought that to you his needs didn't matter.

"I didn't even know at the time I was not meeting his needs because he did not tell me until after I found out about OW."

You didn't need to "know". If you went out on your own and did your own thing, it's kind of obvious that that is what is going to happen.

"We went out together, slept in the same bed, had sex, told each other we loved each other, (from me it was more I do love you but something is wrong, something is missing)"

That's your interpretation. He probably saw something else. Again if the two of you never really talked about what you were going through this is what happens, instead things were swept under the rug,

"So no, she did not come into the picture before my MLC, but close to the end of it."

Okay so your can't include the OW as one of the factors for your MLC.

"But now he is doing the same thing."

Which is in his right to do so just as much as it was your right to go out with other people during your MLC. When you were out he might have imagined you with other guys. I know I would have if it were my W. So with you going out and then coming home to make love to him, etc. it could sound like cake eating to him.

Again, don't mean to belabor the point but all of this has to be understood before you know what to do and how to act around him.

[ForMyHusband]

All valid points and I appreciate a mans POV. So if you were me what would you do and how would act around him? Is there any chance at all that my marriage can be saved at this point?

[MrBond]

Sure. There's always a chance.

What is it that he sees in OW that you think he finds attractive?

[ForMyHusband]

I have to think that she "boosts his ego". This is what he himself told me she does for him. She makes him feel good about himself, makes him feel wanted. She took an interest in one of his hobbies and they also work together.
The other thing I think too is our home is hectic - a 5 year old and 2 dogs. Where they live its probably neat and tidy and quiet and he can relax more. Does that make sense?
He just sent me an email after he deposited money into my account for the bills. It said "no you didn't get a raise, I put money in your account" which I thought was funny. My instinct is to respond with a funny comment. But I haven't responded at all yet.
He is also is coming to "hang out for a bit" tomorrow night.

[MrBond]

"I have to think that she "boosts his ego". This is what he himself told me she does for him. She makes him feel good about himself, makes him feel wanted."

How have you tried to make him feel that way without telling him?

"She took an interest in one of his hobbies and they also work together."

Have you ever tried doing this?

"The other thing I think too is our home is hectic - a 5 year old and 2 dogs."

Whose idea was it to get the dogs? What can you do to make things seem less hectic and less cluttered?

"Where they live its probably neat and tidy and quiet and he can relax more. Does that make sense?"

Yes but you can make your home that way too.

"He just sent me an email after he deposited money into my account for the bills. It said "no you didn't get a raise, I put money in your account" which I thought was funny. My instinct is to respond with a funny comment. But I haven't responded at all yet."

don't. Just say 'I'm having lunch with a friend right now. Thanks'.

"He is also is coming to "hang out for a bit" tomorrow night."

What kind of an impression can you leave with him while he's there?

[ForMyHusband]

How have you tried to make him feel that way without telling him?
- I'm not sure I have. Doesn't that go against DB principles? But in my sitch I don't think they apply, very confusing. I have asked him to do things around the house, paid attentive and have been responsive when he tells me things. What else can I do without words? I've expressed myself and my remorse through words and my actions I think. But I'm not around him a lot now.

Whose idea was it to get the dogs? What can you do to make things seem less hectic and less cluttered?
- we both love dogs, well he lives with a cat now. I can and do keep the house as clean as possible esp when I know he is coming. I don't know how to make it less hectic. I have been taking very good care of the house while he has been gone, even shovelling our 200 foot driveway and painting and rearranging stuff. It has to go up for sale soon (unless he was to come home)

Have you ever tried doing this?
- I can't, not while she's going with him. Its a very specific hobby, skeet shooting. I would love to try but it would be too obvious and I can't just show up.

don't. Just say 'I'm having lunch with a friend right now. Thanks'.
- wouldn't that be rude or "uncaring" when I should be showing him I care? This is where the db stuff gets me. Why would I say this? What would this type of response do? I would rather just not reply. (And its supper time where I am :))

What kind of an impression can you leave with him while he's there?
- that I care about him and our daughter? That he interests me. That I am happy and content and D and I are getting along just find without him? I'm not sure, very confused.

[MrBond]

"How have you tried to make him feel that way without telling him?
- I'm not sure I have. Doesn't that go against DB principles?"

No. DBing is about doing what works. And what you've been doing hasn't worked.

"But in my sitch I don't think they apply, very confusing."

Not really. You're just not supposed to actively pursue him.

"I have asked him to do things around the house,"

Asking for chores isn't the same as VALUING him as a man.

"paid attentive and have been responsive when he tells me things."

Every now and then drop a nice comment about what he's doing. You don't have to do it ALL the time. Just slightly show that what he does is appreciated.

"What else can I do without words? I've expressed myself and my remorse through words and my actions I think. But I'm not around him a lot now."

That's not what I meant. I mean how have you told him he's doing a good job at something. That his actions are appreciated? That's how he wants to feel and is what he's getting from the OW.

"Whose idea was it to get the dogs? What can you do to make things seem less hectic and less cluttered?
- we both love dogs, well he lives with a cat now. I can and do keep the house as clean as possible esp when I know he is coming. I don't know how to make it less hectic."

Get rid of all clutter. Make the home spacious and inviting. Re-arrange the furniture or put up new pictures or paint. something that shows its new.

"Have you ever tried doing this?
- I can't, not while she's going with him. Its a very specific hobby, skeet shooting. I would love to try but it would be too obvious and I can't just show up."

I meant before. Have you ever shown an interest and tried to participate in what he's doing?

"don't. Just say 'I'm having lunch with a friend right now. Thanks'.
- wouldn't that be rude or "uncaring" when I should be showing him I care?"

How would this be interepreted as "uncaring"? He made a deposit and that's that. You thank him for what he did and to add a little mystery to show that you're not dependent on him, you add the lunch part.

"This is where the db stuff gets me. Why would I say this?"

You're just being polite. nothing more nothing less.

"What would this type of response do? I would rather just not reply. (And its supper time where I am :))"

REply so that you don't seem rude. Then just say you're in the middle of something. DON'T leave him with the impression that you're at home pining for him.

"What kind of an impression can you leave with him while he's there?
- that I care about him and our daughter? That he interests me. That I am happy and content and D and I are getting along just find without him?"

No I mean actions. What SPECIFIC actions can you do that will leave him with a positive impression? One suggestion would be to make yourself as physically attractive as possible while he's there. He may not react to it, but it will help to boost your self-esteem. Then again he might start seeing what he's missing. Do something different to show him that the situation is NOT the same as before.

[ForMyHusband]

I guess I'm just not sure what kinds of things I can comment on. When he comes here, he sits on the couch and that's about it. If he does things while he is hear, in the past I have always said thank you and follow up with an email to say thank you and that I appreciate it. When he talks about his work and his shooting hobby, I could tell him how well he is doing. He is really good at it and his job. But should I initiate conversations? If I could I can show interest but unless I start a convo, he doesn't really talk too much, sometimes, but not often. Can I ask him to do things like shovel to show that he is needed? I really can't think of any actions that he is doing right now that I appreciate, putting the money in the bank on time?

I've definitely shown an interest up to the point where it was starting to interfere with our relationship because his hobbies were getting more time than me and D. I've never gone tho (I am afraid of guns). And now I don't really know when he goes since he doesn't live here.

Well I didn't reply cause I wasn't sure if I should or not and now its been a few hours since he sent it so it would be odd if I responded now. So I should respond to all emails? I was told not to as part of db-ing.

Specific actions while he is here in my mind would be to look good, be happy, attentive, be nice and make conversation and get him up off the couch and doing things with D and I. Or would that be too much? I've been trying to give him and D space when he is here so am usually in another room or in the garage. One time he came, right after he first moved out, we played a few games together the 3 of us. It was nice and it was fun (and my idea). But then am I "forcing" or making him be a father and would that hurt me in the long run? He said to me "I make/made him a family man".

I really appreciate your feedback.

[MrBond]

"I guess I'm just not sure what kinds of things I can comment on."

Think back to when the two of you were first dating. What type of things did you compliment him on? Don't go overboard just a nice thing here and there. For example "I like that shirt you have on" or "I was thinking of hiring a handyman (for something) I'm not sure though. You did a great job doing it I'd hate to have it not be the same". Or whatever.

"When he comes here, he sits on the couch and that's about it."

Then do something like maybe cook something and ask him to join you or cook something new and ask him "hey I'm trying a new recipe, and I need a second opinion."

"If he does things while he is hear, in the past I have always said thank you and follow up with an email to say thank you and that I appreciate it."

Just once thank you while he's there is enough.

"When he talks about his work and his shooting hobby, I could tell him how well he is doing. He is really good at it and his job."

Sounds good. He probably didn't get much of that in the past.

"But should I initiate conversations?"

That's up to you. No harm in doing so as long as you don't expect a response.

"Can I ask him to do things like shovel to show that he is needed?"

No. That doesn't show that he's "needed". That just shows that you need something done and don't want to do it himself.

"I really can't think of any actions that he is doing right now that I appreciate, putting the money in the bank on time?"

That's why you tell him 'thanks'.

"I've definitely shown an interest up to the point where it was starting to interfere with our relationship because his hobbies were getting more time than me and D."

But they were important to him.

"I've never gone tho (I am afraid of guns). And now I don't really know when he goes since he doesn't live here."

Well now it's too late, but you should have been more involved more in the past. Keep that in mind.

"Well I didn't reply cause I wasn't sure if I should or not and now its been a few hours since he sent it so it would be odd if I responded now."

Why? It's just a thank you. Two simple words. If you can't show him simple gratitude for that, then it's no wonder why he didn't feel valued.

"So I should respond to all emails? I was told not to as part of db-ing."

No one said you had to answer all emails. Just the ones that require a response or a measure of gratitude.

"Specific actions while he is here in my mind would be to look good, be happy, attentive, be nice and make conversation"

That's fine.

"and get him up off the couch and doing things with D and I."

No. Get him to see the fun you are having. You can ask him if he would like to join you but don't do anything physical or push him into joining you.

"Or would that be too much? I've been trying to give him and D space when he is here so am usually in another room or in the garage."

You don't have to give him anything. Don't run away from it. Stay in the room if you want to.

"One time he came, right after he first moved out, we played a few games together the 3 of us. It was nice and it was fun (and my idea)."

It may have been your "idea", but it was HIS choice to participate.

"But then am I "forcing" or making him be a father and would that hurt me in the long run? He said to me "I make/made him a family man"."

Don't overthink this. you can't force him to be anything he doesn't want to be.

"I really appreciate your feedback."

That's what we're here for. Just build yourself up and stay strong. There is another author Joe Beam who is another great read and is line with Michelle's DB philosophy. Another marriage resource to cover if you don't have a coach.

[ForMyHusband]

Think back to when the two of you were first dating. What type of things did you compliment him on? Don't go overboard just a nice thing here and there. For example "I like that shirt you have on" or "I was thinking of hiring a handyman (for something) I'm not sure though. You did a great job doing it I'd hate to have it not be the same". Or whatever.
- I do do those type of things somewhat. Tell him his shirt looks nice on him, I ask for his advice on things. I think I can do better tho.

Then do something like maybe cook something and ask him to join you or cook something new and ask him "hey I'm trying a new recipe, and I need a second opinion."
- I bought a new rib sauce recipe, ribs are his favourite. Could I ask him to help me make them? I just know he is coming around 6pm tonight, should I email him and ask him if he would like to have supper?

But they were important to him.
- yes I know and that is why I supported him. But spending time with HIM was important to me and those things always interfered.

Why? It's just a thank you. Two simple words. If you can't show him simple gratitude for that, then it's no wonder why he didn't feel valued.
- I always have thanked him for everything. Its just now I'm confused about responding to emails. I will send him a thank you note this morning.

No. Get him to see the fun you are having. You can ask him if he would like to join you but don't do anything physical or push him into joining you.
- ok, I understand this. If D and I are playing a game, I always ask if he wants to play too, I don't "push" him.

You don't have to give him anything. Don't run away from it. Stay in the room if you want to.
- I try to just go about mine and D's daily routine. But I worry about looking like a "gatekeeper" or that I'm interfereing with his parenting time. Its his choice to come here to see D and not take her anywhere but I still do not want to interfere.