trying to save my marriage Phase 2

[notsurewhat2do]

I don't want to say what I'd do with the letter. I "write" to H all the time, but never give them to him. I fee like he doesn't care, so no response from him would be so hard and painful. What do you expect from him once you give him the letter? You know, I asked H to sit down and talk with me, but I've changed my mind. I really think he "OWES" it to me. But more than anything he owes me time to get use to the dismise of our marriage. He says he's been thinking about it for a year (which I think is a lie) so I think he can give me time to "think" about it too.

Honestly, we NEVER faught or even talked about our relationship. He NEVER told me how he felt. He expected me to read his mind, as I expected him too. I blame him, but really it was both our faults. It's just I wasn't thinking about walking away and I wasn't the one that had the affair. I knew something was wrong, but because of his work/injury I assume it was more that. But yes, we were both at fault. I'd love to sit down an tell H that, but I don't think he is ready or wants to hear it. Do they ever?

[ForMyHusband]

I feel very sad for your DD but glad she is old enough to stick up for herself and is prepared to and doesnt seem to take any blame for what is going on. My D said that to me the other day "this is all my fault" altho I don't really think she understand what her words meant. But it was after H was there and she asked him if she could go with him and he said no and then she was very sad about it after he left. I tried to explain to her that she already knows the answer to that question and if she doesn't want to make herself sad then she shouldnt ask the question. But my god I dont blame her in the least. He will come to the house and take the dogs but wont take her?????

The letter....well, I really do believe nothing will happen, hell not even sure if he will even read the whole thing (its LONG) but I don't care. One thing that I want to SCREAM at him is "you never told me!!! You never told me how you were feeling, what was going on in your head, that you were sharing your thoughts and feelings with another woman and that you were "moving on" YOU NEVER TOLD ME!!!!!

So the letter is my way of telling him - what im thinking and feeling and that we are prepared to move on with out him as we have been doing. Honestly, my life and D's life really isnt different than what it was before my own MLC. I was home, taking care of D, the house, the dogs, the bills, everything. And he was gone. That is what is has been like now for 4 months.

Do I wish that the letter would somehow in someway touch his heart, well of course, I would be lying if I said it didnt. H was always a very touchy feely, cuddly person. Small things would pull at his heartstrings. I know that part of him is dead right now tho. So even though I don't expect anything, I still want him to hear what I have to say. I want to be able to say "I told you" and I want to tell my daughter "I tried everything".

Once the letter is given to him (tomorrow night), then I ABSOLUTELY have to go dark and NC and 180 my arse off. It will be the only way to reclaim my life.

[notsurewhat2do]

I feel very sad for your DD but glad she is old enough to stick up for herself and is prepared to and doesnt seem to take any blame for what is going on. My D said that to me the other day "this is all my fault" altho I don't really think she understand what her words meant. But it was after H was there and she asked him if she could go with him and he said no and then she was very sad about it after he left. I tried to explain to her that she already knows the answer to that question and if she doesn't want to make herself sad then she shouldnt ask the question. But my god I dont blame her in the least. He will come to the house and take the dogs but wont take her?????

The letter....well, I really do believe nothing will happen, hell not even sure if he will even read the whole thing (its LONG) but I don't care. One thing that I want to SCREAM at him is "you never told me!!! You never told me how you were feeling, what was going on in your head, that you were sharing your thoughts and feelings with another woman and that you were "moving on" YOU NEVER TOLD ME!!!!!

So the letter is my way of telling him - what im thinking and feeling and that we are prepared to move on with out him as we have been doing. Honestly, my life and D's life really isnt different than what it was before my own MLC. I was home, taking care of D, the house, the dogs, the bills, everything. And he was gone. That is what is has been like now for 4 months.

I want to be able to say "I told you" and I want to tell my daughter "I tried everything".

My DD is doing good. I do feel bad, because I know she understands it's not her fault, but I think every child in this situation tends to blame themselves, just like the left behind spouse does. Only, my DD is so much like H it's scary and once she makes up her mind, it's pretty much made up.
It is terrible for both of our DD's, they are innocent. For you, your DD doesn't understand, so that's hard. For me, mine does and that's hard too. Only difference is how they handle it.


YES! I am the exact same way, that's what makes me sooooo made about H. WHY DIDN'T YOU TELL ME! Why didn't you tell me how trapped you felt or hurt, or alone, etc... It just ticks me off to no end.

And again, the same with me. It's almost that same for me. I took care of everything. I look back now and I always have. And I'm not sure why? Was it because I'm a control freak, or lack of trust, or just the way it happend. I'll be the first to admit, both H and I are terrible with money. When we first married, he was paying off a vehicle that he let be repossed. So, why would have trusted him to pay bills.

And I'm like you, I want to be able to tell DD, I tried everything. I want her to see me try or give H time. She makes remarks about other men to me, like I wonder if he's single, etc. But I just laugh like it's a joke. I haven't really told her exactly what I'm thinking, because I'm not 100% sure myself.

Do you think ... could I take him back and be 100% happy? Could I trust him 100% ever again? I ask myself those questions all the time. I could try, but it would take A LOT of work on his part to get me there 100%.

[ForMyHusband]

I wish my D was old enough to make remarks like that!! Unfortunately she thinks "mommy and daddy still love each other and just need some time". I wish that was true.

I gave him the letter tonight. He put it in his coat pocket. I'm pretty sure he will read it, I don't doubt that. I'm still not expecting any response.

Do I think I could trust him and be happy with him? 100% absolutely as long as he was willing to put in the time and effort as well. I would be committed like no wife before me (or maybe I should just BE committed lol).

I guess my big thing is, and what my therapist wants me to think about is who is he really and truly as a father and a husband? Do I just have this picture in my head of who I wanted him to be and he's not and that's why I pulled away from him? And now am I picturing who he CAN be? But I can't make him BE anything, that's up to him.

So I start fresh tomorrow. No contact, going dark, I have to learn what "dispassionate" is. Back to read DR one more time. I pray the letter will touch his heart in some way but I'm not counting on it. I just have to remember he's losing out on two great gals and someone else will be very lucky to have us.

[notsurewhat2do]

You are so right ... both of our husbands are missing out.

So, how did the birthday dinner go? Was it hard? Uncomfortable?

From someone who has been through this once. I can tell you, that I trusted my H wouldn't cheat on me (obivioulsy, he left me clues everywhere but I trusted him so much I didn't pick up on them) but I never completely trusted him as far as leaving. I had it in the back of my mind, if I nagged too much or disagreed too much with what he wanted, he'd leave. And it happend anyways. So I KNOW how hard rebuilding trust can be. I do know that H would have to prove his himislf to me all over again. He would have to deal with me asking questions, checking the cell phone bills, asking where he was during the day, etc. I KNOW I could make the changes he wanted (if I knew what they were exactly). I could be the most communicative person alive, I could be the most supportive wife as possible with his hunting ventures and business venture. But it would be so hard, because I don't think his hunting venture will pay out, I need H to make money, not spend it. I need him to stop thinking about what his dreams are and worry about getting DD through school and college, then live out his dreams. But I honestly don't think any of this is me, I think H is in major MLC and depression and is ONLY thinking about himself.

So, I can't remember and can't go back too far, do you know WHY your H left, other than he wasn't happy? Do you wonder as much as I do what you did that was so bad? I feel like I live in two brains ... the brain that says I didn't do anything wrong, that it's all H. Then the brain that says, if things where great, he wouldn't have been looking.

And wouldn't you love to shake him and say ... if you aren't well mental stable enough to be with me, why is OW different? Does that show they don't really care about OW, just using them?
My therapist is out till the first of the year, but I'm thinking about calling the divorcecare lady I met with. She's been doing this so long, I'm sure she could help me get a few answers, or at least get me looking in a different direction.

Keep you head up! No contact, going dark for me too! Let's be accountable to each other if there is contact and report here ... deal???? We both know there will be because of Christmas, but I'm going to let H do all the contacting, not me! And when he comes over Christmas, I'm going to be looking good and be happy! Like this happens everyday. I'm going to ask about his hunting trip, ask questions about that. Ask about spring time business, etc. No OW or OR talk (not that I have since Thanksgiving), no telling him what I think he needs to do or voice any disagrement, etc. I'm doing 180 and learning to be super independant!

I pray with you that your letter will touch H enough that he will stop and think. And even if you don't see immediate change, that God continues to work on his heart. I pray that everyday, that God will soften H's heart and let him see that his family is where he belongs.

[ForMyHusband]

Notsurewhattodo: how are things with you? Sorry its been so long since my last post, been trying to work through this on my own. Obviously not working.

[ForMyHusband]

Question about 180s.
I know what I did wrong in our relationship. And that was not show H enough affection and attention.

Its been 4 months now and there's been no progress but I've also done a lot of what I'm not supposed to be doing
I've been srnding emails writing letters and basically being needy and desperate. So I've began to really commit my self to the 180s/LRT - no contact, not initating conversations, being nice but uninterested. I've even told him he cannot come and go as he pleases in our family home whereas before I was letting him.

He's coming this saturday to spend time with D. My first instinct is to let him come when he wants, make him supper, ask him questions to show I'm interested, let him stay as long as wants and to stay home while he is here. This would be the 180 of how I was in our relationship for the latter part of it. But it also means I do all this for him and then he goes "home" to OW, basically leaving me feeling like a doormat.

But then that goes against the 180 list/LRT????

I'm confused, not sure what to do. Do I 180 on my behaviour over the past few months or on my mistakes in our relationship?

[notsurewhat2do]

I wish I had really really good advice for you, but I don't. I can tell you this though ... when H and I seperated before, as soon as I started to "move" on and become more independent and attractive and yes, had found someone to spend time with and generally became an fun person to be with, H decided it was time to come home. That DD and I was were he wanted to be. What did I do? I stopped calling him, nagging him, promising him, crying over him, I got a life. I don't think the 180 pertains necessarily to what were doing wrong while married, but what you did once the WAS decided to leave or talks about leaving. I think you have to work on what went wrong in the marriage within yourself, but the first thing is to make the WAS see you are different. Think about it, who is attractive to you ... a clingy, whinny man or a strong man who can laugh and have fun? Its the same for both men and women. We don't want that naggy, nerdy, whinny person ... I'm looking for someone that is strong, fun, personabable (for me a job is a plus)man that can make me happy. I say, do the 180 from what you have been doing in the past 4 months. No more letters, no more phone calls, let H come see DD and maybe use the time to go work out, or grocery shop or clothes shop. Be fixed up when he comes, put on make-up, jeans, nice top. When he comes just say ... hey H, I need to run to the mall, do you mind? How long will you be here? Call me if there is any problems. It shows you trust him with DD and it gives him time to spend with her without thinking you are spying or going to jump him any minute.

I do believe you can set some boundries. I haven't yet, but my sitution is a little different (see below). Ask H to let you know when he is coming to see DD OR better yet, go ahead and set that "visitation schedule". Just tell him you think it will be better on DD if she has a schedule. Pick one night a week and either a certain time every weekend or every other weekend. 5 year olds like schedules and it gives her something to look forward to. If he wants to come twice a week, let him... if it is scheduled. If he starts to blow her off, not show up, call him on it. Don't be afraid to stand up for your DD, she can't yet.

For me, it's easy, DD is older and uses H to do things she wants to do and I can't because I'm at work, or just won't do. Like Christmas day... she wanted her boyfriend to come hang out Christmas afternoon. She knew I wouldn't go get him, so she asked her Dad. And he did. He was at our house Christmas morning till 10:15 and then picked her up at my parents house around 2:00, went and got BF and brought them back to my parents house. I took him home. And yesterday, she got him to get her at the house and bring her to my work so she could go shopping with BF. They communicate every night and I never know it. I try not to ask her too many questions. I want her to feel like she can talk to him without me caring.... cause I don't. I want them to talk, even if it is on text.

My 180's .... I don't initate texting unless absoutely needed, before I made up excuses. I never call, again unless absoutely needed. When H is there, I don't jump up to cater to him, but I do respond to him, talk to him, be nice to him. We actually have a friendly relationship right now. Our only tiff has been child-support (timing of payments). I don't talk relationship and haven't really in a while. I don't talk OW and haven't since Thanksgiving. I asked him to change some flood lights for me, but I'm buying more this weekend and my dad is doing it. I bought gravel for my driveway without consulting him. I remembered to changed the air conditioner vent (although I had to ask where the extras were). I'm buying brakes for my truck and having someone to put them on (which is funny, cause it's HIS uncle), I had a flat tire yesterday morning and I put air in it and had it fixed ... not that he would care or know, but it felt good to handle it myself. (But a lot of his stuff, I handled myself before. I've always been very independent because H didn't do any of that stuff for me. He has bought me one set of tires since we've been married, I've bought my own brake pads, but he's found people to put them on. And he just recently started changing my oil, so I'll have to find someone to do that).

So, my advice to you. WORK ON YOU! I know you said you were ultra reglious, but pray. Let God help you. I promise, I'm not a bible thumper. I was raised in the church and worked for a relgious organization for 20 years .... I can't quote scripture and I've not been totally faithful for the past 20 years, but I do believe now more than ever that God listens and protects us. I feel so much better knowing that every day I turn over my problems to Him and He takes them so I'm not so burdened. I know I'm a far cry from healed .... but I feel so much better than I did even 2 weeks ago. I did have a weepy time New Years Eve and got out all the cards I've kept over the years from H. Our 20 year anniversary card really got me ... he hand wrote ... "I'm looking forward to the next 20 years".... it still makes me cry to know that exactly a year later, that all changed.

I really have to turn off my thought sometimes. The thought of the lies H told, the thoughts of the lies H could still be telling. I'm not responsbile for him. Only he is responsible for himself. I can't change him or his mind. I can only work on myself. Like you, I know H probably felt several things ... lack of affection and attention from me, feeling of failure within himself and lack of communication on both our parts. He probably also felt lack of support, because I didn't totally support his hunting endevor (which I try to be more interested in now ... that's probably the only "relationship" 180 I'm trying) I try NOT to respond to H in anger. Although thats a hard one. (not a relationship 180, because we NEVER fought or rarely did - lack of communication).

Keep your head up. Start journaling. Write to H, but don't give it to him. I have the same journal from 10 years ago, just picked up and start writing again. I haven't written since Christmas, maybe tonight.

[ForMyHusband]

Gosh, you sound so much like me and my situation, even the hunting!!!
Thanks for the advice about Saturday. He is coming around 6 and staying til 8 or 9 so I will step out for a bit while he is there. In a way it [censored] because he's leaving to go away on sunday for 2 weeks and he's only seeing his child for 2 hours?? His priorities are so messed up but I'm sure OW wants his time before he goes.
What do you know about OW? Have you ever contacted her? Do you see any hope in them splitting?
I have been doing things on my own and not asking him to help. I also have been a pretty independant person but H always took care of the outside stuff like shovelling so I went and got a new one and did it myself. I'm sure its not up to his standards but I think its okay.
I have an email set to go for the visitation agreement he has agreed to - one weeknight visit per week and one weekend night visit per month. I am dictating when they can be. I'm not going to be a doormat but I will be nice to him and happy when he is here. He looks so darn depressed it makes me sad. I think he feels trapped by OW and the situation as she is lonely and needy and has no one else but him now. So I'm going to be the opposite and not be needy. It was the one thing he said he loved about me, my independance.

I just want to work on myself, make sure D is safe and happy, and get back to being the person he loved for 15 years. If he doesn't come around, then someone else will be lucky to have me.

[notsurewhat2do]

GREAT attitude!!!! H even told me that I was a catch and I'll be snatched up in a heartbeat (probably because all his friends told him how great I was ;-))

What do I know about OW? She is 41, like me. She has a son in college. We are all from the same town, I kinda knew her when we were younger (teenagers). Her dad is a big time deacon in his church. She worked at the bar where H went ALOT (obiviously to see her) and I was there one night and H pointed her out and her boyfriend out and said, he won't let her work without sitting her all night. I didn't realize who he was talking about at the time. Then one time I was up there with him and sitting at a table of older lady friends and she was our waitress, I remember her "looking" at me, but didn't think much about it. I never recognized her. Someone told me she is a recovering addict. She had mental issues when we were teenagers and I think her mom killed herself when she was much younger. Her ex-husband was controling and treated her badly. She been divorced 4 years. I have one friend who said she remembers some "scandal" about her at a local ballpark several years ago, maybe trying to snatch another husband, but that isn't confirmed. I do have her cell phone number, but I've never used it. Too childish. She moved in with him, she must know the situation. But for some reason, I think he might be lying to her also. She seems to let him come and go a lot (like Christmas) and I never hear anything if he happens to call me. Maybe he goes outside, I don't know. Do I see hope in them splitting? I pray they do. But, his dad did this exact same thing and is still married to the OW (30 something years later), but his dad also cheated on OW (wife at the time). So, I'm sure H thinks this will work. This is one of two reasons I'm not filing the divorce papers .... I want to try and wait him out to see if he gets tired of OW. AND, I'm not ready. I still have hope and still feel married. He says he had been thinking about this for a year, well to me, he owes me a year to think about it too!!!!

By the way, my H is leaving this coming Tuesday to go to a hunting show ... he actually told me this Tuesday (surprisingly!!!)

I doubt I'll be on over the weekend. I hope you have a good Saturday! Have fun and go shopping! Always makes me feel better!