Man...how did I get myself into this situation...grrr
I read through the detachment thread. Thank you for posting that link. I realize that I am lacking a few things that keep from completely detaching. Some of them I have handled.
Sandi, what you say makes sense. I can see how she might interpret it that way. I was just hopeful that she was simply putting up a negative image to protect her own feelings. I had hoped that behind that wall of negativity, she was still wanting to return to me. With that being said, I guess I am living a pipe dream. perhaps it is time to let it go and simply move on with my life. Maybe I need to cut her off completely, let her find a place of her own to live and stop paying for any of her bills, just turn her out into the street? It just hurts so badly. It all happened so quickly and it just doesn't feel right.....yep. As my title implies, "in total despair"
I am in a similar place with the whole friend thing. I am wondering how they will think anything would be different if you don't act like a friend. Someone who listens, who takes a interest in their daily lives. Especially if they think you didn't do those things when you were together. Am I way off thinking that you need to show them those positive changes before you really start pulling back. I am not sure how to act friendly without being friends. Do I just stop showing any interest at all? Is it "hi, bye, thanks for dropping the kids off." No questions about work, family, friends or anything of the sort.
I don't mean to hijack suckers thread, although we seem to be struggling with the same thing.
Me 37/W 32 S 5 D 4 ILYBNILWY 5/12 Sep 8/12 Starting to find myself 11/12 on
After reading what sandi posted, I reflected back on my sitch. What she posted applied to me. It wasn't until I stopped doing family outings with my W and began living my life for myself and our children. That was when my sitch shifted.
My W wanted us to celebrate our children's birthday parties together. I didn't want any part of it. I let her know that I didn't think it was a good idea and I would be doing something separate. I would only see my W during exchanges.
I was sincere in my actions. It wasn't a tactic. At that point I had accepted that my M was over and was looking forward to putting that chapter of my life behind me.
Not necessarily giving any advice. Simply sharing my experience.
Me:45 ExW:48 M:04/97 3 Bombs & 2 ReCons 1st BD 11/10 D Finalized 4/20 D-16 S-14 Going in one more round when you don't think you can. That's what makes all the difference in life.~Rocky Balboa
eyesopen, no sweat hijacking. We are all in this together, and if we have similar situations, we will need similar advice. Actually, I agree completely with your question. I have been struggling on how to be friendly, yet detached. Reading that link helped clear it up a little.
In regards to the "friendship", I am really struggling with my decision. I mean, WHY would my phone coach recommend that I paint myself into a corner? I haven't spoke with him since, due to my quickly diminishing budget. However, I assume he had some sort of a plan in place. Now, I am verbally locked into a 2-3 month deal to be "friends" with my wife. We agreed we would take the time to work on a friendship and not push a divorce or separation further ahead. Originally, I thought that sounded great, obviously from my own perspective. It wasn't until Sandi really pointed out what a "freindship" would be to the WAW. It sounds like it would be completely different than my hopes or expecatations. It doesn't sound like a good place to be at all.
So, aside from continuing to work on myself, how do I play this out? We all know what the ideal goal would be, to reconcile. How do I(and eyesopen)get there from here? Really needing some solid advice on this. Thanks so much in advance.
"but I cannot let go of the idea that she will eventually come around. "
You're treating it as if she's in some kind of trance. She's not. You have to deal with that fact that (at least for now) she is done. Sandi was great in describing how to detach. You don't have to get to the point where you tell her to f off, but you start learning how to stand on your own and not worry about what she thinks or doesn't think about you.
M-43 W-40 2D - 9 and 5
Emotion, yet peace. Ignorance, yet knowledge. Passion, yet serenity. Chaos, yet harmony. Death, yet a new life.
So at this point, how do I handle the friendship? Sandi made it clear about how my W will interpret being "freinds". It sounds like that isn't going to be a way back into her heart. So, now that I have painted myself into a corner, how do I get back out? Does anyone have any idea why my phone coach would have suggested this approach in the first place? I am really feeling discouraged. I realize all too well that my actions have helped put me in this situation, but now I am also feeling like perhaps I was lead down the wrong path as well by someone I invested my trust and money in to.
I am not ready to move on and give up hope that we will reconcile, but I don't know what to do anymore....
You, along with many LBH's, want to believe their WAW is holding back her true feelings and inwardly she wants to stay in the M. You can read that all through threads here on the board. IMO, it is a barrier that he places between what he "hopes is true" and the cold reality of the stitch. So instead of doing what will work, keeps taking cheeseless tunnels.
Sure it hurts! But you are trying to take what seems to be the "safer" route, b/c you are afraid to really let go. You admit you still hold expectations from her....yet she has repeatly disappointed you and failed your expectations. Love hurts when you are the only one doing the loving.
I think some may have a problem understanding what kind of R to maintain, if they aren't together, just like they don't understand how to detach & remain friendly. Some men think they have to show the WAW his coldness, or sullen attitude in order to detach. They just don't get how to detach friendly.
Anyway, let me try to give you a closer look at the reality. But first let me say that it may or may not be along the same line as what your DB coach advised. So far, I have not understood why the coach told you what he did.
When the WAW is "done", she is not thinking about R. She is thinking of her life without you as her H. Now, depending on the individual stitch, she may or may not care how badly you get hurt in all the fallout. She may or may not be vindictive. But the one thing I've seen that they have in common is once they are ready to leave, they want things to be over quickly and with as little hassle from the H as possible. Of course, the H usually puts up some resistance, which makes things worse. If she has OM, or wants to be free to date, she will grow weary of H's persistent pulling on the rope. That's when she presents the friendship card. (Some offer the friendship immediately after dropping the bomb...b/c they want to have him for a friend........but no intimacy.). If the M has been SS for a while, then she may have already learned how to settle into this "just good friends" lifestyle with him.
Many couples live like roommates. When that happens, it is trouble waiting to happen. She still wants a man in her life, and she still has emotional needs she wants filled much more than the physical. If her H has been a "roommate", there's a good chance he hasn't been filling her love tank, and that makes her vulnerable to other men. In many ways, what she feels or thinks of her H........could be much the same as if she had a female roommate living with her. I'm sure that is difficult to grasp, but remember, this did not come about over night.
As I said, every stitch has different details, and perhaps your MR had a healthy sex life. But something was lacking.....somewhere. If there are children from the M, then she may want to have a friends-based R even after she leaves and even if there is OM.
I feel that most of the WAW's I've read about, want to have the best of both worlds. She doesn't want her H, and she wants to be free of the M, but yet she wants him to be nice about it and continue to support her, go to her rescue if she needs anything, and continue to have family events together....all at her beck & call. That is why the LBH can quickly becom trapped in this type of relationship with the WAW. If he doesn't do something she wants, then she cries, "I thought we were working on having a friendship! This is not how you treat friends!". She will pull that friendship card whenever it suits her.....but not the H.
I have always thought that the WAW has to suffer some kind of loss before she will consider R the M, and if memory serves me right, MWD agreed in her DR book. Stop and think about it, why would she change her mind if she's getting everything her way? If the LBH thinks that she will wake up one morning and realize she still loves him and is ready to R the M, then he will likely be disappointed.......b/c it won't happen as long as she gets him, family, events, support, and freedom, all at the same time and without being his W!
I doubt any of the DB counselors will encourage you to kick her out to the streets, if you ask them that question. But have you considered telling her that you will give her two weeks or a month to get a place she can finance, b/c you will not continue to support her if she is not going to be your W. She won't be your responsibility. She won't like it, but she won't like anything that doesn't suit her needs. Your part is to give her plenty of notice, and to do it without anger, coldness, etc. You have to be able to tell her calmly, with confidence, and strength. Knowing, but not telling her, that she has to experience being fully on her own before any hopes of her changing can enter the picture. Please don't express this to her. That would be like shooting yourself in the foot!
Along with not giving her financial support, you should withdraw sharing family events. This is another way she needs to see how life without you (or without her being M to you) wil be for her. You don't tell her that part.....you just politely bow out of any invitations or suggestions purposes,and you give the kids a second birthday party, or whatever. She can do whatever she wants with the kids, but not at your home and not with you
The key point in all of this is to do it as calm and in as nice & friendly way as you can. Whatever you do..do not get into an argument with her, and when she starts.....you end the communication quickly. Now this important......the goal is not to win her over! Yes, your ultimate goal is to R the M, but that is way down the list. First things first. I think that some of you don't quite get the point that there are things she has to go through before that happens. It can happen a lot faster if you can relax about actually getting her back.......and just act as if you know it is going to happen, just not today. (Another item you do not share.)
The WAW needs to miss her H, especially if she has moved out. That won't happen if you are making contact with her and trying to "prove" you are a good friend she can depend upon. I have read so many threads where men get caught up in that thinking. Goes to show how mixed up and crazy the LBS can get. Listen, she can find a girlfriend, but the only R you should want is a MR. You could knock yourself out proving something that she isn't even attracted to! Attraction is the main word here. Remember, if she thinks of you as a "friend", she probably won't be attracted to you in the way she needs to be attracted to a man.
I think one of you said something about not knowing how to be friends without showing interest in their day or take time to listen to them. You see? This is exactly the trap I was talking about. What I'm really hearing is a LBS giving excuses for not detaching.....and if I can hear it, you better believe she will see right through it.
Friendly detachment is what we do every single day that we come in contact with another person we don't have an intimate relationship with. Why is that so hard to understand? Yes, it's hard when it is your S! But you have the example of your everyday contact with others you meet and use politeness. That's the word! Instead of thinking about friends, just think of politeness with a co-worker you aren't interested in having as a close buddy.
You have to stay free of all her emotional pitfalls in order to stand any kind of chance of having her as a wife in the future.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
You paint yourself into these corners b/c you don't take time to get advice and think it over before you act.
My advice is don't do anything to show you are trying to be her friend!
Think about all I've said. When you are ready, all you have to say is that you've thought it over and decided you really rather not have her as a friend. That's all. She won't like it, but so what? She may even get nasty, so what?
Whenever anything new comes up, you tell her you need to think about it.
If you decide to cut her off, you say you've thought about things and have decided.........
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
thanks so much for your time and effort. What you have stated does make sense to me, even though my heart wishes otherwise. I have been thinking about an exit strategy for the "friendship". I guess that will be easier than I thought. I can just step back and not be the one trying to reach out, and if she reaches out I can be less receptive. It will be tough, but it makes sense. Of course, I continue to stay "friendly" when we speak or see each other, correct?
As of right now, there is no other OM. She did express recently that she will at some point start dating. That should be obvious, I guess. You were exactly right on the assumption that our M has been like roommates. Our intimacy has been very seldom, and we had been sleeping in separate rooms for quite some time. That all started about the time our daughter was born and progressivvely got worse over the years.
In regards to detaching, I will need to focus on that much harder. My biggest issue with completely setting her free is complicated. First, she currently has a part time job. Financially she couldn't even think of supporting herself. There is no way she could put a roof over her head and my daughter will be with her 1/2 the time. That puts me in a difficult position. To add to that, she has little to no support here locally. My wife's friends have not been supportive of her choice to leave the R. Basically, all of her freinds have chosen to be advocates for us reconciling and she has pushed them away for not supporting her decision.At this point, she has zero support in our area. Therefore, her only support is in Canada, where my wife is originally from. I am fearful that if I put her on the street, even with a fair bit of notice, she would have no other option than to return to Canada. That scares me to death. I know she has already had offers from her Canadian friends for a place to stay. So, how do I detach in that scenario without jeopardizing losing my daughter as well?
I VOW to ask here before I make any more moves. I am soooo disapointed that I have repeatedly shot myself in the foot by incorporating my own thinking. I know that DB seems counterintuative to normal behavior. I just haven't been able to switch gears and follow through. I need to work on that harder!
