X demands full custody because I'm engaged, Part 2

[25yearsmlc]

well you are not married to the lawyer you had. So you can hire a new one for modifications of your decree. Get referrals from friends who were satisfied with their D lawyers. And hire someone from a firm w/resources, rather than a solo practitioner b/c, in my opinion, it helps.

Except for the actual divorce itself, almost every aspect of a divorce can be modified, under the right circumstances.

In your D, it sounds as if you had very few details worked out, so you're not even changing anything so much as just clarifying the unknowns.

[sleeper]

...not married to the lawyer you had...

That's some funny stuff. It reinforces how some of us (the ones who come to these boards) take things like marriage commitment seriously and others don't.

No, I'm not married to my L. She was a member of a firm but I think she has left them. My X's L was a member of the top shark divorce mill in town. X paid thousands more than me but would you believe those two L's overlooked mistakes in the financial portion of the settlement?!?! Those have been corrected (thank GOD) and they (and the judge?!?!) overlooked a typo that I was to pay X a tidy sum each month in addition to her getting all the assets while I took 1/2 the debt (business and personal). That had to be corrected when I bought back the house that was originally in my name only, on my credit only from X so could qualify for a new loan. I should sue my L AND the judge (my L didn't look out for my interests, the judge apparently can't do math cause the figures of the financials reveal no way for me to carry such a debt). I can't reach my L anymore and as for the judge, I don't even remember her name although it's on the papers.

I only wanted my kids 50/50 and that's what I got. On paper, as ambiguous at it is.

DD is a smart cookie who asked years ago why "mom got the house, the business and the best car." DD wasn't happy with me about the sleepover denial (coincided and intertwined with custody swap) but we had a long talk this AM. I answered her question of why I let her mother have everything but her and her brother (they are the only thing I wanted). I think she finally gets it.

Yes, I will press for specification of custody transfer.

I hope somebody (including lawyers and judges) learns from my experience.

[25yearsmlc]

...not married to the lawyer you had...

That's some funny stuff. It reinforces how some of us (the ones who come to these boards) take things like marriage commitment seriously and others don't.

No, I'm not married to my L. She was a member of a firm but I think she has left them. My X's L was a member of the top shark divorce mill in town.

No offense, really. But most people think their former spouses hired "sharks" and I don't know any spouses who think they pay "too little in child support/alimony".

Most feel that they got ripped off. It's human nature to see things with our own biases,

Also, who forced you to hire your lawyer? At what point did you begin to feel dissatisfied with her representation, but continue to retain her? See where I"m going with this?


X paid thousands more than me but would you believe those two L's overlooked mistakes in the financial portion of the settlement?!?!

Are you saying b/c she paid more, she ought to have gotten more? It actually Sounds as if she did get more, hearing your version here.

But fwiw, missing a mistake on the financial portion, if it helped HER< is probably not something her lawyer would point out. It's your job and your lawyer's to do the math for you. I don't know why you agreed to giving all this away to her unless you had deep fears about losing the kids or she had something to hold over you...from what you say here, it's odd.

Fwiw, I've caught errors in our closing documents for purchases of our homes, three different times. Each mistake would have cost us thousands. (God only knows how many mistakes I missed). My h is an MD and a smart man. He missed the errors too. Always read what you sign, carefully.


Those have been corrected (thank GOD) and they (and the judge?!?!) overlooked a typo that I was to pay X a tidy sum each month in addition to her getting all the assets while I took 1/2 the debt (business and personal). That had to be corrected when I bought back the house that was originally in my name only, on my credit only from X so could qualify for a new loan.

just for the record, all this^^ is what you agreed to, right? So why bring it up now? Why is it relevant?


I should sue my L AND the judge (my L didn't look out for my interests,

(SIGH)

how did they Not look out for your interests? You just said you "only wanted the kids" and that is exactly what you got.

the judge apparently can't do math cause the figures of the financials reveal no way for me to carry such a debt). I can't reach my L anymore and as for the judge, I don't even remember her name although it's on the papers.

I only wanted my kids 50/50 and that's what I got.

So you're grateful you got the kids --

Or are you still angry that a judge didn't ask you if you could really afford a mistaken number on a document, which he assumed you and your lawyer had read?? (No It's not his job to add up the numbers to something you agreed to, and decide if HE thinks YOU can afford it...that's your job/your lawyer's job and since it was a math ERROR, it's not important now, is it?)

Since you're not grateful you got the kids, you must be bitter/regretful b/c you let your emotions, anger, & fears of losing the kids, interfere with rational business making decisions....You're not the first person to do that.

But you ought to own up to the choices you made and the reasoning behind them, at the time.

Before I met my h, my late MIL divorced my fil. She told me repeatedly, (and this was a full decade later) that at the time, "all she wanted was OUT of the marriage"...

so they sold the house. Her lawyer pushed for her to get half of the profits but she didn't even want that delay of the divorce to debate it, AT ALL...fortunately her lawyer prevailed in that one respect, and she got half the house profits

(w/18 years of marriage)....

See, she reacted quite emotionally to her divorce situation, and she really tied her lawyer's hands. She could not handle any delay or conflict or escalation.

Years later, she realized she could have fought, and won, half of her ex h's military retirement. But nope, at the time, "all she wanted was OUT as soon as possible" and that is what she got.

But later, she often complained to me about her "lousy lawyer". She never seemed to connect the dots.

She wanted out asap, and that meant her lawyer could not do anything that would delay the process, (which fighting for assets tends to do.)

In her later years, she worked 2 jobs to make ends meet, whereas my FIL invested his retirement income, and is now a self made millioinaire.

My older sister settled for much less than she could have gotten after 22 years of marriage & 3 kids and her working full time the whole time....whereas my younger sister got a MUCH better deal, with a 13 year marriage, no kids, and never working during the marriage.

Go figure.

I know It's not fair, but it's what she/they chose at the time. It's what happens when you let your emotions dictate your financial decisions.

Sometimes it leads to buyer's remorse, which is what I think I see in your words. But imo, it's not really fair to blame your xw or the lawyers for what you agreed to.

Maybe your lawyer tried to tell you to fight for the property more, maybe the "sharks" threatned to drag things out, maybe you didn't listen carefully enough until the day you actually read the documents

OR maybe you insisted then, as you do today, that "all [you] want is the children!"...and that would make it sound as if that really was your priority.


Buf if that was your priority, why complain now about the property? Do you see how it makes you sound?

On paper, as ambiguous at it is.

DD is a smart cookie who asked years ago why "mom got the house, the business and the best car."

Although I believe none of this ought to be discussed with the children, since you chose to do so anyhow, did you tell your d that the reason your ex w "got the house, business and best car" is b/c YOU agreed to that? B/C after all, that is the truth.


DD wasn't happy with me about the sleepover denial (coincided and intertwined with custody swap) but we had a long talk this AM. I answered her question of why I let her mother have everything but her and her brother (they are the only thing I wanted). I think she finally gets it.

So, the talk about the sleepover lead your daughter to ask you about a property settlement of years ago? Um, okay...but

Let me get this straight. You "ONLY wanted your kids 50% of the time" and you got that. That is what you wanted.... So, what's with all the complaining and talk of suing your Ls?

Sounds as if you instructed your lawyer to get the kids half time, which she did. Now you're mad b/c you think you could have gotten a better deal. Your wife spent more and she got more....you mock her lawyers for missing a math error (that maybe helped HER) and yet you call them sharks...

You evidently read your divorce agreement carefully b/c you caught errors others missed...but you're angry b/c you think you could have gotten a better deal.

I see this a lot. I just think you ought to own your choices more. Think about why you did what you did and what was going thru your mind. I'm not saying you were a fool at all.

But you sound bitter now, and you are blaming others for the choices YOU made. No one forced you hire the lawyer you hired, who then got you "all that you wanted"... I think you are revising things and letting yourself off the hook for your own mistakes, made in the heat of an emotionally trying time.

Please, since I think you sound very bitter, be mindful of parental alienation (bad mouthing your ex) b/c courts frown on it a lot. In our state, you can lose custody over it.

Plus, it makes you sound hypocritical...You claim, twice here, to have gotten what you wanted.

Then you say no one "watched out" for your interests & then you say her shark lawyers got so much of your property, but you read the agreement (carefully!) and you signed it...

Imo, you can't be the hero who made the kids is sole priority -

AND THEN whine that your lawyer and the judge should have looked out for your financial interests more.

I do not know your situation or why the divorce happened. I know your ex w SOUNDS terrible now.

But I also see you blaming others for choices you made.

Yes, I will press for specification of custody transfer.

I hope somebody (including lawyers and judges) learns from my experience.

Me too.

[sleeper]

2 x 4 accepted (and internalized)

I'm on my phone so unable to reply fully but I will say this; I wanted DD to realize how much she and DS mean to me (more than ANYTHING) and that was the reason I made reference to her remark about X getting all assets in the D. It was a question she has asked several times over the years but to which I never really responded until a couple of days ago. I think she understands now, that she and her brother are all that matters to me. At least there has been a definate change in her attitude.

I don't speak badly of X or OMH to the children.

Yes, I made emotional choices and instructed L, on more than one occasion, my goal in the D was "damage control." (lots of possible interpretations there).

X and I both "got what we wanted." In truth, I think NOW we both have some level of "buyers remorse" as you opined. When your spouse is only interested in partying/traveling and willing to leave your young children with ANYONE to do so it's a normal parental response to want them with you as much as possible. Especially when it was a friend of hers that raped your 35 mo old daughter while babysitting (following parole hearing last summer he has 13 years more to serve if he's not paroled).

Hindsight is always 20/20.

My lawyer? She was young. X's lawyer? He was mature and experienced. The judge? She was somewhere in the middle and clueless.

I really don't hold them accountable for the outcome.

The only L for which I have any annimosity is the pedophile rapist's who pleaded with the judge, "Your honor, but no one has been hurt!"

It is what it is.

[25yearsmlc]

2 x 4 accepted (and internalized)

I'm on my phone so unable to reply fully but I will say this; I wanted DD to realize how much she and DS mean to me (more than ANYTHING) and that was the reason I made reference to her remark about X getting all assets in the D. It was a question she has asked several times over the years but to which I never really responded until a couple of days ago. I think she understands now, that she and her brother are all that matters to me.

Not to belabor the point, but given your other remarks about the ex 'getting everything" and how you wanted to sue the lawyers AND the judge for "not looking after" your interests, & them missing things that all got repaired,

is it really true that the kids are all that matter to you? You say it often, but you say other things just as often and they contradict this, so you sound very conflicted.

At least there has been a definate change in her attitude.

I don't speak badly of X or OMH to the children.

Really? Not even the ex w's husband? Well, You just implied that their mother cared more about the property settlement than you did, b/c "all you cared about" was getting them -which we know implies a contrast between you and her...

Truly, don't you think the comparison was obvious AND intended? Even if only subconsciously, surely you must recognize that you are indeed competing, to her detriment...and in my honest opinion to THEIR detriment...yes these comments hurt your children more than you realize.

Each parent is part of each child, in terms of DNA that's literally true. So, Disliking or resenting a parent, means disliking part of ourselves... it does affect our own self esteem while we are children, even mature kids get hurt by the inferences drawn.


I don't think you are a "bad guy",okay? But I do think you are unaware of issues you have that are still quite active and NOT "resolved".


Yes, I made emotional choices and instructed L, on more than one occasion, my goal in the D was "damage control." (lots of possible interpretations there).

lawyers are not mind readers. WHen we have a relatively educated or articulate client, we expect they'll tell us what they want. No guessing games. The "lots of possible intrepretations" isn't likely if you are clear enough. If they're not clear, they'll ask. I think you said what you meant and they followed suit and you now wish you had made different choices. MANY people wish that, but own it.

Your blame game sounded too imbalanced to me. Don't mistake my comment. I have seen legal malpractice more than once. IT's a disgrace.

But your version of events just sounded like you carefully read a document that you then signed, and now regret. Period.

But you got the thing you say you wanted...so again, I'd ask what the complaint is

AND WHY you hired an attorney without a lot of experience? Many youthful lawyers do have experience and not all older ones do.

I've asked twice for a reason, WHY did you hire that attorney?


X and I both "got what we wanted." In truth, I think NOW we both have some level of "buyers remorse" as you opined. When your spouse is only interested in partying/traveling and willing to leave your young children with ANYONE to do so

this ^^MAY an accurate form of mind reading but it's still mind reading, which is unprovable AND negative...(="parental alienation")

it's a normal parental response to want them with you as much as possible.

you mind read with her (negatively) and then defend yourself to portray yourself as justified/sympathetic, and then below, you pull out the "raped d" as a trump card you seem to feel only serves your custody battle. I don't mean to minimize this, as one of my d's was sexually assaulted at college and it's a big big deal...

But the grief is not yours alone; it's your d's and it's your wife's too. I'm sure she was traumatized by this too...

Also the incident with your d isn't relevant to much of this now, is it?

Surely none of it has to do with the property settlement, so that dead issue should stay in the ground b/c it's STILL BOTHERING YOU....

and that is on you my friend.

As unforgiving as you make your ex w out to be, you sound right in there with her.

Let the past go, for YOUR sake, and your family's. And your future marriage.



Especially when it was a friend of hers


so it's your x wife's fault here too? Do you see the pattern here? It's very very clear.

You think she "should have known" this would happen? Were you there? Regardless, these things are NOT nearly as predictable as we hear, when it comes to people without prior records. There's always the first time, and that's very bad luck.

I hope your d is alright now and that YOUR anger and pain do not pollute her recovery...

That's something the support group my h & I attended after our d was assaulted. (I Hope you and your ex w attended some meetings b/c they really help)

THey told us to work thru OUR pain and anger and model that for her without minimizing it for her. HER experience was worse and unique of course

BUT if all she saw US feeling was more victimization and or anger, or the desire for revenge (heavily present in me and my h) that would NOT HELP HER...she had to be the priority, not our "Righteous anger/indignation/pain"....make sense?

Though her attacker was convicted, I believe that if she'd not been so injured AND if there'd not been some ideal witnesses (literally a professor and a nun, grad student who saw part of the attack) who knows what our system might have done to our d? It was bad enough as it was...



that raped your 35 mo old daughter while babysitting (following parole hearing last summer he has 13 years more to serve if he's not paroled).

Hindsight is always 20/20.

you need to let go of this resentment against your wife. It's unfair AND worse, it is poisonous to you in ways you can't even see, AND it's poisonous to your family and is a terrible thing to hold against your wife.

SOME bad things happen even when we're careful. And yes, HINDSIGHT is always 20 20...but not foresight. No wonder your wife is paranoid about your fiancee. You have taught her NOT to trust any stranger

and besides, it's ironic you'd find this hard for her when you are bringing up the same thing, ie a "stranger babysitting your kids" that SHE is bringing up.

I realize your fiancee is not a rapist. I get that. But she's new to your kids, relatively. I doubt the rapist babysitter was a "total" stranger,

so in a weird way there is an analogy between your wife's bad babysitter fears, and your resentment of what happened in the past.


My lawyer? She was young. X's lawyer? He was mature and experienced. The judge? She was somewhere in the middle and clueless.

as "Unobjective" as you sound in your legal analysis, who stopped you from hiring an experienced lawyer and forced you to hire a young woman lawyer? Was she cute?


I really don't hold them accountable for the outcome.

so you changed your mind from earlier? Good...So who is accountable? I know it sukks to "say" it out loud, but I'm telling you that important lessons get learned when we own our lives and choices.

It's a big step toward taking charge of our lives, which is our job.

The only L for which I have any annimosity is the pedophile rapist's who pleaded with the judge, "Your honor, but no one has been hurt!"


if that's an actual ^^ quote, it's a very odd one. I doubt it went over well in court too, so in a way, that's a bit of justice.

I once saw a rapist tell the judge that in the future the defendant (just got convicted of rape NOW saying his "apology") that he'd "use better judgement about who [he]'d associate with in the future"...

I shook my head in disbelief. THAT was the "remorseful statement"? Oh, he got the max sentence...guess he really will use better judgement about who he associates with, in prison...

It is what it is.

so it is.

Good luck, try to stay in the present. It really helps all concerned. I'm not referring to the rapist when I say the rest of this below, except as it relates to not focusing on victimhood...or the past.

But if you continue to harp on the past injustices, real or imagined,

you'll teach your children to hold grudges, to never know or see what real forgiveness is or looks like, (they will need that skill) and you will show them how NOT to get past a bad event or set back,

and a lot of other lessons you could INSTEAD teach the opposite of.

lessons such as...
love, committment, compassion, forgiveness, redemption, joy in the moment, rebuiding trust,

and that inside most healthy people, are good hearts wanting to give and receive love...Make sense?

[figgeroni]

sleeper...

the judge is not morally obligated to read over everything in the paperwork..that is your lawyer's job.

clearly she didn't do that...

if she worked for a firm, you can go back to the firm and question it (as she represented the firm)

but that is up to you


if you choose not to, then you also need to choose to let it go

[sleeper]

25years,

Thank you for giving me a great deal of food for thought. And yes, the pedophile's lawyer DID say that, word for word. I think he said it during a motion his client be allowed to live with his parents during the trial (bail hearing, long story). His legalese logic was probably no conviction yet = no one has been proven to have been hurt. I could write a book: police admitted they could have arrested perp for lesser crimes against children before he raped our daughter but decided not to so the could arrest him for something bigger when he offended, DA was on vacation when perp raped DD so police wouldnt arrest until DA returned and authorized arrest, DA decided to let perp leave state to spend Xmas with his family in exchange for confession to lesser crimes, DA telling us what happens to children in another state wasn't his concern (I'll stop there). I was doing pretty well until the probation hearing brought a lot of this back up.

Figgeroni,

I have had a virus (flu?) for two weeks now. I think the vagueness of the custody decree becoming an issue lately brought back up issues I have with my L's performance. Her firm was reccomended to me by my supervisor at the time. My supervisor's husband (at the time) is a judge. The primary of the firm and my supervisor are sorority sisters. I thought I was getting a solid legal reference and would receive excellent "counsel" and representation. Now a patrol officer tells me I need more specifics in the custody papers.

[25yearsmlc]

it's not that everyone has to have each detail of custody spelled out, b/c then there's zero flexibility in your arrangements. That can sukk...

But in YOUR case, the details appear needed. So missing details, in itself, is no indication of the problem legally. It's the situation YOU are in.

My question is what you were thinking at the time that made you only care about custody and being willing to give up so much property.

What was your fear then? Why the trade offs then, that aren't NOW worth it?

[sleeper]

The

[sleeper]

The "fear then" was an ugly custody battle.

There was much predisposition for things to be ugly...

During X's parents split up, X's mom's family kinnapped her and her brother from school in St Thomas, flew them to the states and hid them in an FBI safe house (X's maternal grandfather was a former FBI agent and the chief of police of a city) so her US Customs agent father and his buddies couldn't kidnap them back.

X's mom remarried and while she was dying of brain cancer, X's stepfather got her to sign a new will excluding X and sibling from estate (I think they were legally disowned also) so he could get everything for himself. After her moms death he wouldn't even allow kids in the house to get personal items.

X walked away from assets when she left first husband (her choice) and regretted it.

X believed herself to be cheated by uncle (executor) when her grandfather died in 2006. Uncle actually opined, "we're not going to do everything exactly as father wanted." The family owned a bank a few generations back and an heirloom coin collection (old gold, silver) heavy enough to make the rear shocks of a car hit bottom when transported in the trunk mysteriously disappeared. I urged X to hire a lawyer but she refused saying her uncle and his adult children were the only family she had left (even though they have nothing to do with her and her and our kids see them once a year at Christmas). That uncle allowed X's grandfather (his father) to lie in an unmarked grave for years and it may still be.

Her grandmother died in 2005, her grandfather in 2006. We separated Jan, 2007. She threatened fight for full custody if I disagreed with property split she wanted (believed some things intrinsically hers). We had been through criminal trial (the pedophile) from 2002-2004, two years almost to the day. Bookkeeper at our business had robbed us blind in the middle of trial while we were distracted (another financial ripoff she had endured).

Food for thought (I think too much)....X screamed at me during separation, "You're not getting a dime of my inheritance!" (wtf? Was she confusing me with her uncle?) In my opinion X kidnapped our children from me when she took them during my custody time without my permission and against my direct instruction. (a learned behavior?) X says she was sexually abused in blended family after her mother remarried. (She says she will never allow DD to live under the same roof as fiance's son.

Doing the right thing at the time doesn't mean you won't pay for it (or regret it) later. What makes me sick is now facing the fight (custody) I thought I had avoided years ago, although I believe my position now is much stronger (But I'm not a lawyer). Maybe I was willing to pay that price to avoid a custody fight, not to just postpone it.

It is what it is.

Ain't it grand?