I'd hate to cancel and get to Feb and not go if we continue to progress because that would hurt kids and I honestly think it would be fun for everyone. Right now I'm leaning towards paying it on Monday whether she brings it up or not and I won't mention it if she doesn't say anything. Thoughts?
I say continue to avoid R talks, pay the balance and plan on having a fun time as a family. It sounds like your gut is telling you the same thing. Next time the kids bring it up, instead of just smiling tell them you're really looking foward to it also, and join them in their excitement.
You have something positive for everyone to look forward to, use it to your advantage!
M: A really long time. Crisis: 5 years. She's still worth it.
Life is never made unbearable by circumstances, but only by lack of meaning and purpose. -Viktor Frankl
Not much to update over last couple days. A lot of the same which I guess is a good thing??? Continuing my 180's with a little more small talk with W. Not a peep about R from wife but she's telling me more about her work/ family and things she's having to deal with and I'm being a better listener. I'm personally feeling pretty good and some of the changes are coming more naturally. I'm also working out like crazy and feel like I'm in best shape of my life. She's also been around more, not picking up extra work shifts or going out with friends. In fact last night she was going out after work and ended up at home by 7:00 because "she wanted to go with us to daughters swimming class". Kind of messed up my night of Black Ops but it's all good .
The no touching/ kissing/ ML is still in affect. Little torn on that, emotionally it might be weird and not sure I'm ready but physically I'm pretty much always ready. Don't judge me,I'm a guy. I won't push it though because it's always been a point of difference for us and it's a 180 I'm doing for R (admit that one might not be for me ). It's so weird but every night during the last week plus when I wake up (I've always been a terrible sleeper) we've been snuggling close to each other. No idea who instigates it and seems to be 50/50 by position but I admit to enjoying it since physical touch is one of my LL's. Last night we were in full spoon??? Instead of moving away like I have been I said heck with it because I liked it and fell back asleep, woke up 2 hours later and we were in same position. Thought that was a little odd because my wife is a restless sleeper and low probability she made it 2 hours without waking up to move. Trying not to read into anything but it's hard not to a little. This is all so crazy, I really have no idea what's going on... We're in same house, starting to have some good small talk, having a blast with kids with more laughing then I can remember, sleeping in same bed with unconscious snuggling, and divorce papers filed and potentially months away from D-day with absolutely no R talk. Sometimes I think separation would make at least some things clearer.
I can feel my patience starting to run low on the zero talk about us. I haven't let on to her at all but it's driving me crazy. I figure we have our initial Friend of the Court meeting on 12/11 so something has to be discussed there. It will likely be bad and I'm already prepping to not be too disappointed. I still have no plans to discuss R until she says something.
I'm also still up in the air on the cruise and what to do. While we were at swimming last night she reminded me that she had a doctor appointment next Monday so I'd need to get dinner for kids. I told her I remembered and no problem. My son was on my lap playing and not thinking at all I said 'isn't there something else I'm supposed to do on Monday' and she responded with that was day cruise payment was due. I should have started discussion about it but it kind of caught me off guard. All I said was the airfare had already been paid and left it out there. She didn't respond and there was awkward silence for a few minutes. She's so bullheaded she may never say anything. I was a little surprised she spit out payment due date immediately so it's obviously on her mind. Since I paid airfare a few months back I'll likely just pay for cruise and see what happens. I kind of feel like I missed an opportunity to open a discussion with her yesterday but I don't want to instigate and son was there being his normal high energy 4 year old self so likely wouldn't have been productive.
Personality is who the world sees, character is who you are
Other thing that has been bothering me is not wearing ring. W took hers off when she filed (normal WAS behavior I think) and I didn't let it bother me too much. When I hit my breaking point a couple weeks ago I stopped wearing mine and haven't put it on since. I've worn that thing 15 years and I honestly hate not having it on now even with sitch. My D7 actually said something about me not having it on last weekend when we were all together that I didn't respond to but know W knows it's off. I can't put it back on because I don't want to give any mixed signals to W (or to me). I've told myself that my old marriage is dead and gone so I shouldn't put that ring back on until we've at least decided to try and reconcile and possibly wait for her to put her's back on.
Just strange because I never put a lot of thought into rings and never really noticed them on people. Now I hate not having one and since this started I'm noticing them on what seems like everyone
Personality is who the world sees, character is who you are
Sounds good. One thing you might think about is, what if things turned around....what if you did R. Realize this might take a year or two. And if so, looking back on it a couple years from now, what do you think would have been the signals that things were improving...the baby steps if you will? Sometimes that helps me with the impatience.
Originally Posted By: Spartan
Just strange because I never put a lot of thought into rings and never really noticed them on people. Now I hate not having one and since this started I'm noticing them on what seems like everyone
I think a lot of us struggle with this one. My W still wears hers 95% of the time and I took mine off a couple of times only to finally decide I would wear it until D was final as a symbol of my commitment to the M. Fast forward a few months and I don't wear mine at all any more. I'm down about 15lbs for the year (looking like I did when I was 25!) and now its just a little big. I try to wear it when we go to church or to an event, but I'd like to get a new set if we R. W has tried to find our original rings thinking I'd fit into that one, but we haven't found it yet...but the fact that she noticed was interesting.
Other thing that has been bothering me is not wearing ring. W took hers off when she filed (normal WAS behavior I think) and I didn't let it bother me too much. When I hit my breaking point a couple weeks ago I stopped wearing mine and haven't put it on since.
I would leave it off. The thing is, you don't want to put pressure on her. You want her to think you both want the same thing. She quits wearing her ring, you quit wearing yours. If you keep wearing yours and she's not wearing hers then you're telling her daily that you want something different than she does, you want to save the M and she does not. It puts you at odds, creates friction and pressure. It's the same reason you don't ever say ILY, because when you do it reminds her that you're not on the same page.
A lot of the same which I guess is a good thing???
Well it does sound good, but I'm going to tell you this so that you don't get your hopes up too high. After BD W and I quit ML for a while, then when we started MC everything seemed to be going great. We were doing communication exercises every night, we were doing everything together, we even went out on some dates and even started ML again. She seemed to be going out of her way to spend time with me and the kids, like she really was trying to make it work. It really seemed like everything had turned around. And in MC W kept saying I had changed a lot and she even said I had become the "perfect husband". We too snuggled when we slept, something we hadn't done in years. But every time the R came up she kept saying she saw no future in it. And as you know she still did move out. So enjoy it, but don't get your hopes up, because even though it may seem like she's trying she may still be cashed out mentally. Have no expectations.
Thanks guys for helping keep me grounded. Have no expectations is always good to remember because you never know what they will through at you.
On here quickly tonight to vent a little so I don't say anything to W later. So she gets home from work while I was setting up movie to watch (MIB3) and asks if she can watch with me. I said sure and asked how her day was. She talked more then I expected complaining about things mostly and I just listened and sympathized with the tough cases and 14 hour day. She then starting venting about one of her old best friends (pre BD). She was complaining to me that her friend still thought D was a bad idea and was telling W her opinions. She was also telling her how bad it will be on kids, especially D7 and said she's guessing D7 was already suspicious. W said D7 didn't know anything and is fine and we were telling her early next year. She just kept talking about how wrong her friend was. It took every ounce of fortitude that I had to keep quiet and not say anything about us or how I was really feeling. I actually managed to show a little support for W saying how friend is strong willed and can be judgmental. Has my W forgotten I'm the one she's wanting to D??? I don't want the F'n D!!! Does she not know what she's putting me through emotionally? She either is tired and had a small lapse in judgement or she's believing my rant a couple weeks ago and thinks I want the D also and am fine with it. WTF is going on? Maybe my 'as if' behavior is working but I don't want to hear her talk about it. Thankfully she went to get comfy clothes on before movie so I have time to write this and relax a bit so I hopefully don't say or do anything stupid. Reading Sandi's 180's (for the 100th time) after I post this.
Personality is who the world sees, character is who you are
She just kept talking about how wrong her friend was. It took every ounce of fortitude that I had to keep quiet and not say anything about us or how I was really feeling. I actually managed to show a little support for W saying how friend is strong willed and can be judgmental. Has my W forgotten I'm the one she's wanting to D???
She's confiding her feeling with you, my wife does the same. I see this as a good thing and try to build on it. It's better they feel comfortable telling us instead of only others.
One thing WAW's often say is "OM understands me". Poop on that, I want to be the one who W feels understands her.
M: A really long time. Crisis: 5 years. She's still worth it.
Life is never made unbearable by circumstances, but only by lack of meaning and purpose. -Viktor Frankl
But every time the R came up she kept saying she saw no future in it. And as you know she still did move out. So enjoy it, but don't get your hopes up, because even though it may seem like she's trying she may still be cashed out mentally. Have no expectations.
Whoa...this is exactly where I'm at. Daily, things are great, we hang out, ML, do things as a family. Everything is great....except that court date in Jan. And every time R comes up, it's generally her saying she still wants D.
I think the problem is she made a decision and is sticking with it. She refuses to forgive, refuses to take a chance, to become vunerable, so it keeps her from committing to the M.
Originally Posted By: Spartan
Has my W forgotten I'm the one she's wanting to D??? I don't want the F'n D!!! Does she not know what she's putting me through emotionally? She either is tired and had a small lapse in judgement or she's believing my rant a couple weeks ago and thinks I want the D also and am fine with it.
As I'm reading here, it seems like me, you and AS are all on the same ride...it's just that AS is first, I'm in the middle, and you're at the beginning!
I had the same issue with W talking to OM in front of me, and telling me about him. The whole time I was thinking "You do realize that OM has caused a rift in our M don't you? You realize that hearing about him reminds me of all the issues regarding him over the last few years?"
That said, I'm with FY in that her expressing her feelings to you is positive. It's a great opportunity to practice validating without agreeing with the issue.
Whoa...this is exactly where I'm at. Daily, things are great, we hang out, ML, do things as a family. Everything is great....except that court date in Jan. And every time R comes up, it's generally her saying she still wants D.
I think the problem is she made a decision and is sticking with it. She refuses to forgive, refuses to take a chance, to become vunerable, so it keeps her from committing to the M.
So this means you need to buy some more time to give her a chance to change her mind. ANYTHING that can move the date(s) or stall the process and give you more time is good. Are there any practical reasons you can come up with to hold up on the D process?
My wife said she was "done" but came up with her own reasons to wait to D.
"Maybe after Belle dies" (our 14 year old dog, who I now have on an exercise program and heatlh food diet!)
"Maybe after my busy period at work" (this milestone has already been passed two months ago, still no move on her part)
"Maybe after the loan is paid off" One year to go. (ok, this one was mine, but I knew it would make sense to her.)
Others have been known to use kid issues as reasons to hold off on D. (when school is out, kid graduates, etc)
The fact that you get along good is great! You offer comfort and security that she may find hard to give up when it comes down to it.
M: A really long time. Crisis: 5 years. She's still worth it.
Life is never made unbearable by circumstances, but only by lack of meaning and purpose. -Viktor Frankl
. 
is still in affect. Little torn on that, emotionally it might be weird and not sure I'm ready but physically I'm pretty much always ready. Don't judge me,I'm a guy. I won't push it though because it's always been a point of difference for us and it's a 180 I'm doing for R (admit that one might not be for me 
). It's so weird but every night during the last week plus when I wake up (I've always been a terrible sleeper) we've been snuggling close to each other. No idea who instigates it and seems to be 50/50 by position but I admit to enjoying it since physical touch is one of my LL's. Last night we were in full spoon??? Instead of moving away like I have been I said heck with it because I liked it and fell back asleep, woke up 2 hours later and we were in same position. Thought that was a little odd because my wife is a restless sleeper and low probability she made it 2 hours without waking up to move. Trying not to read into anything but it's hard not to a little. This is all so crazy, I really have no idea what's going on... We're in same house, starting to have some good small talk, having a blast with kids with more laughing then I can remember, sleeping in same bed with unconscious snuggling, and divorce papers filed and potentially months away from D-day with absolutely no R talk. Sometimes I think separation would make at least some things clearer.