W filed, I think we can make it work - what to do?

[Breakdown]

I don't think there's anything wrong with spending the holiday with her, but don't apply any pressure or have any expectations. Just enjoy it for what it is and leave it at that.

[Spartan]

No real updates here besides wife is going with kids and I to Thanksgiving Eve service and dinner tonight at church. We've also been sleeping in same bed for 3 nights now.

Reason for post is I spent better part of day (who works day before holiday anyway) reading various posts here and I'm inspired by what you guys have been able to do. This is a tough business getting through the day to day knowing what's at stake and how any wrong move could severely hamper things. Read posts by Breakdown, GH31, Denver_2010, and J3B and have me in a good mindset going into long holiday weekend.

[Breakdown]

Have a good holiday and try to enjoy the moment.

I'll be burning a few hours on Black Ops 2 myself

[25yearsmlc]

Update from last night...

When I got home from work I asked her if we could talk because something was bothering me and I needed to tell her. She looked ready for a fight.

your behavior turned that around. I call that a "win".


I told her I was sorry for my attitude and comments at the end of last week. I told her I've been under a lot of stress with divorce, work, and extra holiday stuff I get roped into and I regretfully took it out on her. I didn't say anything else.

I LOVE this^^^. Esp since you didn't seem to "expect" something back from her.

Reminds me of a 180 I made that was pivotal though small at the time.

H had always paid the bills ahead of time. In his MLC he "forgot" to pay them AND "forgot" to tell me!

So the electricity almost got cut off and I called him (this was when It hit me that he wasn't paying them anymore) right after I'd had a DB session, thank God. (Perfect timing!)

I informed h that the bill wasn't paid and before I could go any further he interrupted me b/c he expected me to vent and rant on him, which I would have done IF I had not talked to my DB coach an hour earlier...

He said "NOW YOU KNOW what it's like to pay the bills FOR ONCE!! (he never asked me to pay them, btw)

AND IT'S STRESSFUL AND I'VE BEEN DOING IT FOR OVER 20 YEARS!!"

I calmly said "Yes you have, and I want to THANK YOU For that - b/c it IS stressful to have to pay them every month."

H was silent for about 30 seconds (maybe less, but it was a LONG pause)

and said "um, well, you're welcome"....

and then we conversed for a few minutes about pleasant stuff and I got off the phone.

At that moment I realized how hard this DBing was going to be for me,

but that it could work.




She seemed responsive and her eyes softened a little and we actually talked for a couple minutes (just small talk that she started). I followed it up by asking her if she wanted to join the kids and I for Thanksgiving, she accepted. She tried to hide it but I could see she was happy to not have to spend holiday alone. Later in the night she came up to me and said maybe we could also all go to the parade or a movie. We watched TV as a family for first time in weeks. She even included me in her prayer that we do with kids before bed every night.


this ^^^ is called "progress" or baby steps, etc. IT's a good thing!

I'm not sure if these were the correct 'DB' things to do but I needed to do it for me because it was what I wanted to do and made me feel better because I was feeling bad about my attitude last week.

it WAS DBing b/c of these ^^ reasons. NOT b/c you said whatever you felt, b/c that is often NOT Dbing, but these reasons, feeling bad about your own behavior and owning it, are good solid reasons for an apology. (I mean, Why wouldn't you do it?)


I didn't come across as needy or even elude that I cared either way (even though I did). I'm getting so much advice that my head is spinning. Pass or fail, I'm realizing I have to do what's in my heart or everything feels off and doing it for wrong reasons (i.e. making someone spend holiday alone or being an a$$ to help me detach is just not who I am anymore).

Sometimes all we can do is ask ourselves if a course of action or comment is coming from a place of love/light in our hearts,

or something a bit more nebulous or dark.


I found that what I'd disguise as, or call "justice" or "fairness" was sometimes me wanting to punish AND Justify, which I'm very good at doing.

So I had to guard a lot against rationalizing what's really just punitive behavior.

But I'm a better woman for this new awareness and you'll be a better man and father for it too.

[Spartan]

Thanksgiving weekend journaling:

Thanksgiving wasn't our traditional holiday but even with the current situation it was one of my favorite ones. We got up early and met some friends at the parade. None of us had ever been to a real parade and we had a blast seeing the balloons and floats. Kids had fun playing and W and I had some laughs. Weather was nice so we went home and put up outside decorations (well I did but they all played and cheered me on which was fun, I'm usually out there by myself freezing to death). After that we went to see a movie. We then went home and W and I finished cooking the meal together and we had a nice family dinner. No tense or odd moments and everyone had fun with no expectations.

W had to work 12 hour shift Friday so kids and I hung out, played, and ran some errands. Just about dinner time phone rings and it's wife from work, I was surprised because she hasn't been calling from work lately. She asked if we had dinner plans. She wanted to meet us for dinner so we drove towards her work and had dinner. Kids were being pretty goofy so we were laughing the entire time.

Saturday was toughest day for me but still a good one. I opened bills in the morning while having coffee and saw wife's lawyer retainer fee. Glad my lawyer is a friend . Anyway, for whatever reason that brought me down a little and back to the real world. Probably good though because I have a tendency to think things are improving faster then they are and this reminded me to slow down and just enjoy the moment for what it is. The plan was to put the tree up and decorate it but I knew my head wasn't in it then and I wanted to make sure we had fun. I brought everything up from basement and then asked if everyone wanted to go to gym. It's usually a fun family thing we do so they agreed. Wife was ok with it also because she seemed a little sore so hot tub was calling her name. I pushed myself pretty hard and got out all the pity party emotions I was feeling. We picked up kids from daycare area and went swimming and had fun. Had lunch and then put up tree. This was first year I didn't just rush to get it done, I sat back and enjoyed it and took a few seconds to remember a lot of the good times. I think this helped everyone have more fun because in past I had a tendency to get grumpy because it was taking so long (I really don't like the old me now that I see what I was). We went out to dinner as family but we were all pretty tired. My back was hurting and after kids went to bed wife offered to give me back rub, I was very surprised. It felt good and rather then trying to pursue anything more, like I surely would have in past which likely would have ticked her off, I just said thanks after a few minutes and we headed to bed. During night wife snuggled up against me while sleeping.

Sunday was another good family day. Went to church and sermon was all about forgiveness. Pastor really hit it hard and kept asking why we feel we should be forgiven when we can't forgive other people... Made me realize I still have some forgiveness to give to her that I've been holding from long ago. I prayed God would help me with that and vowed to do everything I can to fully forgive her and move on. He also pretty much quoted many of W's excuses for not being able to forgive my past wrongs. We didn't talk about service afterwards but I did see her wipe her eyes a couple times so thinking it might have gotten to her. After church went shopping and I wasn't in my normal guy "I hate to shop" mode. I was engaged and actually helped in every store. Got kids to bed and wife asked if I would make us some tea and we watched TV. We used to drink tea every night and hadn't done it in months so thought that was a baby step. Went to bed on our own sides but when I woke up in middle of night we were both in middle of bed snuggling. (I swear I'm turning into a girl with all this emotion and snuggling talk, who knew I had this many feelings. I'm scared if I ever see a date movie again I might start crying).

So all in all had a really good family weekend. No fights or even weird moments. I didn't do anything stupid, didn't bring up R, and didn't show any expectations or neediness. Best part was it wasn't that hard, I was just being myself (well the new me). It made me hopeful but I tried to keep my expectations in check and just 'enjoy the moment'. I know there is still a LONG way to go. The weekend didn't help the detaching though... When I'm alone journaling and being honest with myself the hardest part for me is having patience and my stupid need for reassurance. It's obvious it was a good weekend but a part of me keeps thinking was she just trying to get through weekend and nothing has changed. Wish I knew if needle was moving at all with us. I know for sure my 180's are helping me because in the past many of these activities would have been a bother for me and had me aggravated and this time I had a really good time. Now that I think about it I guess what's really important is that I'm improving. The rest will work itself out.

[Spartan]

Thanks 25yrs for your reassurance . I know it's stupid but I do appreciate the positive (and negative) feedback. It helps me keep going and stay on the path.

With these 180's and my self reflections it's no wonder my wife didn't leave me years ago. I really don't like who I was. Here's hoping it's not too late.

[Breakdown]

Dude, that sounds really good! Glad you had a good holiday and glad the church message was right on (funny how that happens isn't it?). I'm glad to hear that you took the message internally, and didn't use it to pressure W.

Good job on keeping expectations in check. Keep going. Don't try to mindread (I see that in some of your messages)....it doesn't help, and you can really never know what's going on in their head unless they tell you. Enjoy the moments!

[Spartan]

Stealing my post from AS's thread...

But, one of my faults that I've done a 180 on is I did complain a lot. I would gripe about having to do sooooo much stuff with the kids. Just to W, not to the kids. And I did (and do) enjoy the activities thoroughly, but I would gripe to W and say things like "good grief, it seems like we never get a break from this stuff, I can't believe there's ALWAYS some deal we have to go to here or there, I can't ever get anything done at home because of all of this." I was just venting, it's not that I didn't want to go.

Whoa, light bulb moment for me! This is a new 180 for me that has been staring me in the face for years. In one of our arguments a couple weeks ago about custody my W brought up how I don't even like spending time with kids because I always complain about doing things. I wrote it off as her re-writing history because I spend more time with them then anyone and I don't miss anything they do. I volunteer for just about every thing they're involved in (coaching, kid small group leader at church, taking kids to parties, etc...). In my head I know I wouldn't miss any of it for the world and love doing it but I admit to complaining about it to W. Sometimes I'd like to just watch football or baseball on Saturday instead of going to gymnastics, swimming, coach either T-ball or soccer, and do other assorted activities and I'd say something in passing to her. Now I see she probably actually believed my complaining was real and not just me venting to vent. Figured she knew the truth since I keep volunteering to do things with kids. 180 on this starts now! I'm stealing this and putting it in my own thread also .

[Mach1]

So....

Let me ask you some things...

Why DO you, do those things ? ( activities, etc )

Why do you complain about them ?

When you realized this, is this how you want to present yourself to other people ? To the world ?

Why do you think that it was a "light bulb" moment ?

Did you feel that little burning sting when you realized it ?

[Spartan]

Why DO you, do those things ? ( activities, etc )

I really enjoy spending time with kids. Like watching them have fun, enjoy life, and have opportunities that I never have. Love being part of their life since my dad left when I was 4 and never had a father that wanted anything to do with me. Lastly I really enjoy coaching kids. Watching kids learn and improve through a season is great and I assistant coached middle school football before having kids, being able to do that with my own kids is amazing and fills something in me (sounds weird but not sure how to explain).

Why do you complain about them ?

I really don't know. I think it was to try to get a 'that a boy' or support from wife for doing so much that a lot of other dads don't do. Sometimes it's overwhelming but 99% of the time there's nothing else I'd rather be doing then hanging with kids. I know I'd stop watching the games I mentioned above if kids came in room to play.

When you realized this, is this how you want to present yourself to other people ? To the world ?

No, not at all. I've only ever complained about it to W and now wish I never would have

Why do you think that it was a "light bulb" moment ?

Because I'm an idiot and it never occurred to me that my wife actually believed my venting was real complaining. I thought she could read my mind and know that I love doing those things, especially since she goes to many of the events and sees how much fun all the kids and I are having.

Did you feel that little burning sting when you realized it ?

Yes, more like a thump on the head saying 'wake up McFly'