New to DB and Clearly Oblivious to My "Horrible" M

[NickB]

Forrest Gump, thank you for the questions. I am sharing my thoughts in response to each and look forward to any experience or insight you can share.

NickB.. describe what you think DB'ing is about. Use as much detail as you can. Explain your thought's on GAL. Detaching.

For me DB’ing is about creating a healthy distance right now in our relationship. Healthy distance being described as allowing for the space and time she needs to focus on herself and allowing me to focus on me. I struggled with this at first – especially before reading DR and made the very common mistakes. I got emotional, I demanded that the EA stop, I pressured her to do more things with me and kids and spend less time alone. There was about two weeks of this before I found DR and even then it took a little more time before I started to realize the distance she wanted was exactly what she needed.

In those early weeks I also tried to “fix” her. I read books about her position in the EA and tried to get her to read them with me. All mistakes at that time.

It was after I started allowing some of the distance in that I saw small changes in her reaction. Nothing major, but less egg shell walking for me which I needed. I saw bigger changes in my emotional state than I saw in hers which is what I should have known was the right outcome but took me a few days to get it.

In focusing on myself, I joined a gym and started to work out again which had fallen by the wayside with our last child. I was not out of shape entirely, but I never made time for me either. Doing this every other day started to produce results which also spilled over into better eating habits and more reading about healthy nutrition, etc. which renewed my second passion I had not pursued in a long time which was reading in general. I used to plow through one or two books in a week and hadn’t done this in a long time. Spending time on these things helped me create some healthy distance without forcing it or focusing on it.

I have tried to extend this GAL activity into more social events as well. I am getting more involved at church and also spend as much time with the kids as I can. I love being a father. What I am slowly realizing is that I stopped loving being a husband too. (more on that later).

GAL for me now is a mix of social activities through church, through work and through some of my kid’s activities. I have kept up with exercising every other day and also still avidly read which brings me great peace.

Detaching for me as noted above has been a learning experience. I first detached probably more lovingly than I should have but have fallen back into a better pattern – or one that at least makes me less emotional internally. Early on, even when I was trying to give her space, I found myself wandering into the same rooms and going to bed at the same times. I slowly changed that pattern of physical closeness.

The emotional detachment has taken much longer. While I don’t think I displayed my internal struggle, acting “as if” is actually acting and takes time to get good at. Not sure I am there yet. But it does not feel as if I am acting as much. I have been keeping a steady PMA and it is not a struggle like it was early on. I don’t find myself retreating to a room to cry or having mentally talk myself off a ledge during a conversation with my W.

Also.. Why does her opening up in counseling make things better for you? Or more directly.. Why does her "venting" make you feel more comfortable?

I am struggling with identifying potential 180s. Exercising, reading, GAL’ing, 24/7 PMA are all big changes for me – and have a great benefit for me. Where I get into DB trouble/confusion is I still know I was doing something to drive her away from me and would like to know what it was. Perhaps there are 180s here as well. Some of what she is revealing is counterintuitive in the same way DB’ing is counterintuitive at first.

For example, she has mentioned she would appreciate small gestures such as getting her coffee when I am out. This wasn’t something I used to do in our past and is something I would have thought was pursuit behavior in some small way. Because she mentioned it, I have been stopping occasionally for coffee on my way back from the gym in the morning.

Her venting does not make me more comfortable. The venting is usually generic statements that are anger filled and don’t offer me any clues as to where the R came off the tracks. I get comfort when the MC gets her to open up because she is calm and is beginning to offer me a sense of what she sees as the problems in the R.

When did you start counseling.. I may have missed it?

We started in late September. We have had 6 sessions now. It was only in the last one or two that she stated to open up and talk more.

Is this your first go round with a "affair"? Or have you been "here" before?

Never been here before. This is all new ground. Can never say for sure what she has not done this before, although I just don’t get that sense at all in looking back. Not a question I broached with her. I have tried hard to not focus on the OM or the EA. It was so emotionally consuming at first that this was a big change I made for myself immediately. As hard is it is to not to try to fix something, this was something I learned quickly I wasn’t going to fix and the more I would have tried the more she would have jumped faster.

In our second MC counseling session together I set a boundary and asked her to no longer contact the OM while in our home or in the presence of our children or me. She agreed then. She also said she was cutting off contact at that point. I tried hard not to focus on this part since then.

[NickB]

Sandi2,

Thank you again for your time and guidance. I appreciate all the great feedback and hope there is more in store for me.

Here's a tip....when there has not been significant progress in the MR, and the W initiates a R talk....it usually means a negative message for the H.

I would say this is 100% on target and great advice.

First of all, were the two of you in a mutual agreement that you are (have been the past two weeks) actually "working" on the M? Did either of you tell the MC that you are/would actively work on the R? If yes, what have you seen her do that would be considered working toward a better R?

In our fifth session we did agree that we were going to make time to spend one-on-one at dinner or some outing and have the nanny take care of the kids. The MC specifically asked do you want me or her to take care of the planning. W said she would be more comfortable doing it so there was less chance of me having high hopes or expectations for the dinner.

In the end the dinner was never planned. When the MC asked us in our last session why she did not pursue it, she said it felt like pretend still.

[NickB]

Adinva,

Thank you for taking time to catch up on my sitch and offer support and advice. I really appreciate it.

I was struck by a comment that she seemed to be finding you lacking in emotional response, and I wonder if that might be part of the distance that grew between you. If so, it may be important for you to start feeling your feelings more visibly instead of validating hers all the time. It's against db, where you're supposed to always seem positive and happy. But if part of the problem was that you were not emotionally connecting to her, I can see where continuing to be that way might not be the best thing to do.

This has been a hard part for me as I am confusing or conflicting the DB advice and what she may need. I know DB'ing ultimately says do what works, but experimenting with what works causes me set back sometimes and I feel somewhat frozen trying things with her. I take zero risks lately.

I think it's very hard for you to be in this situation and not be able to get from her exactly what it is you did wrong (if anything) and what you can do to fix it (if anything). The takeaway I've gotten from divorcebusting is to forget the spouse, and do your own digging. Figure out what you can do better to be a half of an intimate relationship, and get to work.

I agree with this and need to figure out how to better implement my continued improvement plans. I know I still focus on what I can do to fix the R inseated of just me. I need to break this code for myself somehow.

[NickB]

HI think you are doing all the right moves and if your W is getting angrier it's because you are taking away her justification for wanting to leave.

Arsene, I never thought about this until now after reading a strong of comments including yours and wonder how this is not all just leading up to her leaving either way but even angrier when she does.

I know I cant stop her from going, but am I just poking her with a stick before she leaves

[NickB]

No Longer Wretched,

I spent the evening reading through your sitch and saw many similarities. I am sorry we both find ourselves here, but I am thankful for you taking time to offer support.

BTW - you sound very strong and capable in all of your posts - you are definitely a role model for how to endure the unendurable!

I appreciate the compliment, but we all know that this comes from following the PMA approach until it just becomes part of your DNA. I started shaky, still have shaky moments and have just become accustomed to overpowering them with more PMA. Fake it until you make it. I am slowly making it, I guess.

[NickB]

But if I can venture something, maybe others will correct me : have you been a suck? You know, the mr nice guy? You're so analytical, so detached and calculating.. You possibly can't be French or Italian. Maybe what you need is more spontaneity, you know, romance, folly, humour, life...

Big Bruce, thank you for stopping by and reading my sitch. I understand your question but now struggle with how to add romance and folly back into the relationship and avoid pursuit behavior. I may be just getting too literal with my DBing approach at this point.

I would appreciate additional questions or insight that may help me implement some needed changes.

[JuneReN]

I think there is no harm is ever saying "This has been a rough day", but that being said, that would be all that is said lol!! Myself? I would be absolutely livid if H was wonderful and happy after I said ILYBINILWY and I hadn't been happy. It would make me think that he didn't care at all.

Be happy and wonderful but offer support as well. Bring that coffee, if that is all. When she says something that could be misinterpreted say "What I hear you saying is..." And walk away when the spew starts if you have to

I know DB says-be the person you were, but you also have to take into account the person W has become. It may be "why didn't bring me coffee" today and "I don't want coffee" tomorrow...prepare thyself.

You are a really good person and you seem like an awesome father. You can only control what you do and what you say. I tell myself this a lot. It doesn't always work (as you can see), but it is working more often than not

I think one uses DB in a personalized manner...this is probably where a coach would come in handy

[labug]

Sometimes DB gets interpreted as a one-size-fits-all and we all know from clothing fiascoes, that that is hardly ever true.

I look at is as a business plan, or in healthcare, a treatment plan. It's based on what most often works so you move forward with the plan while being alert to it's efficacy. If down the road the treatment is not working or even causes a deleterious effect, you stop that and finesse the plan.

We've all seen flowcharts, in my mind, this is similar.

The difficulty can be that sometimes it's hard to tell what's working.

Patience helps.

[NickB]

Rubytuesday,

Thank you so much for taking time to learn about my sitch. I am benefiting tremendously from everyone's experience and their selflessness in sharing their mistakes, flaws and eventual personal successes on here.

I appreciate your support.

It is really good that you realized that W has to have last little word whenever leaving MC. I have a feeling she is saying (as she does keep on saying), don't get any ideas, I am still at the same place I was before.

I think that is exactly what she is saying. Early on it discouraged me. I kept reminding myself of the marathon and and finally believe it really is a marathon.

Keep doing well, being happy. Enjoy your babies. Also, if she brings up that she still feels exactly the same, say I understand and so do I

Great advice and an easy way to remind her where I stand when she brings that up.

[NickB]

Sometimes DB gets interpreted as a one-size-fits-all

labug,

I am wondering if your earlier question about hat I would do if this were a close family member was along the same lines. Is it possible I am too detached or detached in the wrong way?