She asked W if she thought I was being honest and W agreed. I think that was a huge thing.
I'm not trying to deflate your hopes, but I want to give you more realistic expectations. My W and I went to MC for 6 sessions and they seemed to go unbelievably well. I really thought we were on the road to recovery, there were many positive signs. The only "hangup" was any time the C asked my W about the future of our R she would respond "I just don't want to try". She ackowledged my 180's, said I had become the perfect husband since BD, said everything was fantastic in the home including sex, but she was done with the M and didn't "want to try". In the end the MC did not change her mind and she left. I just want you to understand that it may seem like MC is going well, but if your W is "done" then the MC may have no impact on her at all.
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W is very concerned how this all will effect our son, councilor assured us that he will be ok no matter how this ends up, because we are both good solid people. That seemed to make her relieved.
LOL! Nearly word-for-word what our C said. Unfortunately it just made my W (and probably yours) believe that leaving the M will have little to no impact on the kids. So at that point concern about the kids ceased to be a factor in W's decision.
Originally Posted By: Acy
This is when I said to much: Then I screwed up and started talking about how I wasnt interested in a fairy tale fling with anyone. I wanted to do the work to make this work. That commitment and trust are what its all about in relationship. And some other type stuff. She got all trapped feeling and like she is trying to be convinced.
Go back and read my last post to you. Your job is NOT to talk! It is to LISTEN!!! Listen and validate! Tattoo it to the inside of your eyelids! When you tell her what you want the R to be, she sees you as controlling and manipulative.
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So the good half and the bad half, maybe it evens out...
It doesn't. One bad thing wipes out a ton of good things. A really bad thing can wipe out weeks and weeks of progress. That's OK, it happens. Just double down on your DB efforts.
There is something I've noticed in the majority of LBH's. They feel so desperate to hear the W say she'll work on the M....or at least say she won't file for a D. It's really difficult for him to focus on his plan of action b/c he just wants her to this or that.
You know how men & women are in having sex. The man is a microwave and the woman a slow burning cooker. Reaching the goal may not be in the same timing. In fact, the goal may not even be quite the same. He may want to climax....but she may want to experience the physical closeness of him. He goes for the finish line and then he is done and feels it's complete, while she may still want more of the physical loving. (Of course I realize there may be a few couples in the entire world that are not like this example.) Anyway, I think it is much this way after the WAW drops the bomb on him. They have different goals in mind. They have different desires and what he wants to do will not be what she necessarily wants. And you know........no matter how sexy the voice, talking usually just don't cut it for the woman. She needs more than talk, guys.
From what I've observed in most stories, the LBH can't seem to focus on much of anything b/c he just wants her to say that she'll agree to work on the R. I get this picture of him trying to set on a hot stove. But she is cold. No matter how much he tries to get her to warm up like he is.....she looks at him scooting around on top of the flame and she wants no part of it. And even though he may get good advice about solving his M problems....he's thinking, "I know....I know, but I just want her to tell me _________ (fill in the blank), and then I can do such & such. He wants assurance! But there isn't going to be any assurance from her.
I wonder if it's b/c of man's characteristic to conquer. And how many win the W back....and think they are through working?
The WAW does not desire anything in regards to her H, the M, affection, on & on. The more he wants her to just say she'll "try".....the worse he's making it on himself. If he can accept that he won't hear her say that, the better chance he will have. Each time he brings it up, the more he pushes her away.
Not to pull you down more than you already are, Acy, but I don't think she'll stick with the counseling. She doesn't want to work things out and she doesn't want to stay in the M. Her mind is on another man and she daydreams of how life with him could be....or how better her life would be if she was single.
Don't ask her if she'll keep attending or if she's going to stop. But brace yourself in case she springs this on you. Know in advance what you will do if she tells you it isn't working and she doesn't want to go back to the counseling.
Do you know what you would do? It may be wise to have some backup plans in mind. IOW, let yourself dare to think about some things she might do and what action you'd take if she chooses to do it.
Even if she stops going to the C sessions, it doesn't mean the M can't still be saved, okay? But when the WAW has pulled in a third party, things usually gets worse after she's dropped the bomb. Probably, you are going to face a lot...but you will get through this and will be better and stronger. Just keep reminding yourself this isn't a quick nor easy fix. It will come in baby-steps, so hang in there.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Very insightful Sandi!! Before I found DB'ing I kept asking W for some assurance that there was just a tiny possibility she would consider R down the road. I told her even a 5% change, or a 1% chance would be something to work towards. But she steadfastly refused to offer even that much hope. What's the lesson? I never should have asked in the first place! I know that now, but didn't then. I was just applying pressure to her, it wouldn't have mattered if I was asking for a 99% possibility or 1%, either way it was 100% pressure.
I know that now, but didn't then. I was just applying pressure to her, it wouldn't have mattered if I was asking for a 99% possibility or 1%, either way it was 100% pressure.
Great advice. My sitch is still fairly new, but I learned this same hard lesson early on. DB'ing works and addresses this if you stay consistent. It is hard, but I do notice a change in the R conversations when she brings them up and the moment I stopped asking her for assurances the more she would talk. Even the level of anger has died down because of the BD process.
W: 40 Me: 44 M: 12 years Together: 14 Three children (S-4, D-3, S-1) EA started in April, discovered in 07/12 ILYBNILWY: 07/12 MC Started: 09/12 Patience Tested: 1,245,963 times since 07/12
The WAW does not desire anything in regards to her H, the M, affection, on & on. The more he wants her to just say she'll "try".....the worse he's making it on himself. If he can accept that he won't hear her say that, the better chance he will have. Each time he brings it up, the more he pushes her away.
Excellent insight, Sandi. It is as if you were in the same room when I first started pushing my wife for any level of assurance. I thought what I was doing was innocent and harmless and yet I realize now it was just as selfish and destructive as my W was being. I pushed her further and further each time.
I hope others are reading this same thread. What great insight.
W: 40 Me: 44 M: 12 years Together: 14 Three children (S-4, D-3, S-1) EA started in April, discovered in 07/12 ILYBNILWY: 07/12 MC Started: 09/12 Patience Tested: 1,245,963 times since 07/12
Thank you! Anotherstander, sandi2 and nickb You guys are great. It really means a lot to me to have a little support in all this. And to keep me Patient, and on track.
I have been working on letting go, it seems as soon as I really decided to just let go and just do the LIsten and Validate, she has been in a better mood around me.
I have a question again though. So one of my 180's is to initiate conversation about how she is doing. But the book says to let her initiate, so I am not quite sure what advice to follow?
Me-41, W-41, S-9, Married 20, Separated 11-11, OM 10-12.
I agree with not starting the conversation. The reason being that it is pressure to her. Maybe there was a time she would have loved you doing it, but not now.
There is so much about men that are of a pursuing nature. That is usually what women like.....but not a WAW. Any type of pursuit from you will totally turn her off.
I'm glad you asked, b/c I'm sure you were looking at starting a conversation about her day as showing you are interested in her. You have to do the opposite of what you really feel like you should be doing...in nearly everything at this point in the stitch.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Great, thanks for the 411 Sandi2, I will let her start any conversations.
She started the conversation today. I tried my best to just listen and validate. She started out saying she wants to finalize the D papers. Said she is angry that I was dragging my feet before. I told her that it was not my intension in the beginning (a year ago), it was only the past few months. Said she feels like she is just floating around as usual, not making decisions. I just listened. She said she cant take the guilt anymore. That she had reorganized our relationship in her head over the past year, during the separation. She said she feels trapped because she feels like she is in charge of my emotions my happiness. I told her that she wasn't in control of my emotions, that I was.
After thinking a little, I knew I hadn't contacted enough and said to much as usual. I later text her that I realize she feels trapped, and if finalizing the papers would help, then I will help do it. She said OK.
I have a really hard time just validating. She is so critical of my efforts. I listen. But fall silent after some things are said because I cant think of a good way to validate. Sometimes I say "I hear that" Is that a validation? I do think of what I could say.
arghh, I guess I will just keep trying when she starts a conversation, Listen, Validate, try to be unavailable...
I just need to think about my life more and what makes me happy.
Me-41, W-41, S-9, Married 20, Separated 11-11, OM 10-12.
I was just on another thread talking about the same problem. I feel it's more important to listen and not be distracted with thoughts of how you're going to validate her. I don't think she wants your validation right now....but she does want your undivided attention on what she's saying b/c she wants a D.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
