Hello! 20 year marriage teetering... (part II)

[AnotherStander]

First thread has been locked down, it is here:

Hello! 20 year marriage teetering on the brink...

Not sure how to summarize this quickly, LOL! BD was not quite 5 months ago, typical WAS story. W not happy, hasn't been for quite a while, not willing to work on the M, ready to leave. We did go to MC for about half a dozen sessions and the C did work on getting W to come around, but W just kept saying she didn't "want to try". I opened the cage door and told W I didn't want her to leave, but if she felt like that was what would make her happy then I would fully support her in that decision.

And leave she did, just under 2 months ago. She rented a house about 5 minutes away. Since then I don't ever initiate calls, emails or texts. If she does then I reply. We continue to do a lot of kid activities together. We're getting along quite well platonically. There have been no relationship talks at all in over 2 months. Hugs are rare, kisses nonexistent. Baby steps very small, very few and very far between. W has indicated she may be getting hot flashes, so perimenopause is quite possible. W is still not involved with anyone and doesn't appear to be looking.

There is no formal S agreements in our state, so we informally agreed to 50-50 custody of the kids on a week on week off basis. W continues to find reasons to come to my house when I have the kids, seems to be really interested in spending as much "family time" as possible.

=============================================

Not much to report since the last update a week ago. No progress, no baby steps, no movement at all. But things haven't gotten worse either, so it's not necessarily a bad thing.

This isn't really a baby step, but I thought it was unusual enough to mention. W and I were waiting to watch D15 at a halftime drill performance and D15's BF's mom came up to say hello. I had not met her before, so my W introduced us, said "this is my husband 'name'". It just sounded so weird to hear her introduce me as her husband, I think that's the first time I've heard her call me her husband since before BD.

We were also trying to coordinate where the kids were going over the weekend and she said "we'll go back to our house first" and I said (thinking she meant her house) "OK, so then are you coming to my house afterwards?" and she said "no I mean, our house, I mean your house." Granted it is still half her house, but since S she has been referring to the houses as "my house" and "your house". It doesn't really mean anything, but there's so little movement these days that it's about all I have to talk about, LOL!

In the last thread a few of us discussed our low energy spouses and our concerns that if we wait for them to show interest in reconciliation that it may never happen because they never take the initiative on anything. I decided I would "test the waters" by sending some physical touch signals W's way and seeing how she responds. I started about a week ago, just little stuff like touching her shoulder, arm or back. She didn't respond positively or negatively which was pretty much normal pre-BD behavior. We went to lunch yesterday with the kids and sat in a booth, my son sat next to me and I had my arm on the back of the bench. For some reason W and son switched places and W slid right up against me. I reached up and rubbed her neck briefly. We ate and after dinner I scratched her back and rubbed her neck some more. Pre-BD she would have moaned while getting a back rub (even in public) and then thanked me afterwards, but instead I got a curt "that's enough" in reply. That was the end of that! She was not rude or anything afterwards, still seemed happy to be around me. But clearly she's not ready for more than just a quick touch.

I'll post again in a few to catch up with posts from the last thread that I didn't get to respond to before it was locked.

[bustingout]

AS, I just love your attitude and approach. It is so even, balanced, practical and controlled.

Thank you for all of you posts and support you give to so many. Several of your posts to others have really helped me along the way.

Take care,

Busting

[ForeverYoung]

AS, I just love your attitude and approach. It is so even, balanced, practical and controlled.

Thank you for all of you posts and support you give to so many. Several of your posts to others have really helped me along the way.

Take care,

Busting

I know, right? He's already the H I'd never leave!

[jbnati]

Hello AS,

I think you're doing well, all things considered.

Not much to report since the last update a week ago. No progress, no baby steps, no movement at all. But things haven't gotten worse either, so it's not necessarily a bad thing.

Man, do I know what this is like! I've been living this for quite some time. All I can say is that you're doing well, stay the course.

I also wanted to say in the times I've been lurking recently that your comments to other posters have jumped out at me. I also love your attitude and approach.

Hang in there!
JB

[NickB]

I also wanted to say in the times I've been lurking recently that your comments to other posters have jumped out at me. I also love your attitude and approach.

I agree with JB. AnotherStander, I have found myself looking for your responses through threads occasionally. I hope you take comfort from knowing you are helping many of us as you are working on yourself. Keep up the great work.

[Soul.Searching]

Yes, I agree with all of the above. I was one of the people involved in the discussion about low energy spouses. During a phone conversation tonight, I did throw in some R talk amongst general conversation. He said he had to go but then called back a little later. (The first time he has called in I don't know how long, without having a reason to call.) He ended up throwing some R talk in to the conversation too. It was all about our past R but I still found it interesting. I even realised he has been reflecting and he's owning some mistakes.

I really do think that with these types of spouses, we do need to reach out. It's just a matter of how, when and how often.
Maybe she might have been more comfortable with that if your S was not there?

[Am I Too Late]

Hi AnotherStander. I just got done reading your Part I and current thread and, like so many others before me, i wish to congratulate you on your patience.

I started here on DB way too late and handled things incorrectly, but also add in my W previously had 10 years sobriety in AA and relapsed nearly 4 years ago when her mom got sick, hospitalized, induced coma, looked like she was getting healthy and then passed away 1 week later.

I can't fight the addiction, but i do want to do more GAL and be less emotional.

Your sitch is helping me in those regards.

I still believe that my W can turn around her relapse when she sees the consequences, but i want to be there for her to someday reach out to if and when that happens.

What was the name of that one book you mentioned? Was it "The Happiness Project".

I felt quite Content in our M prior to my W's depression commingled with her relapse that she hid from me for 9 months. I thought she was just connecting with old friends.

Also, how is your W dealing with her new puppy?

Finally, do you have any vacation time coming up? It sounds like that might be the only way to see a period of detachment given your daily child exchange contacts.

You have SO much going for you and i Pray that your W realizes it soon

Ed

[AnotherStander]

Catching up on replies I missed from the last thread:

Thanks so much to Arsene, needgrace, bustingout, fuanacdc and Soul.Searching for the kind, warm-hearted, flattering comments in the last thread that were made before I got a chance to reply

Arsene-

I agree with you, though, sometimes you're too close to it to notice the little things, which are really the kind of things you wouldn't notice if all was well in your couple.

If it wasn't for DR and these forums I think I would have given up on W by now. The sitch just seems completely hopeless when not referenced against the patterns described on these forums. These forums help to show that there is a process to go through and there is hope for reconciliation even in the face of seemingly impossible odds. I have to admit I really don't harbor much hope anyway (W hasn't given me any reason to have any), but if not for this place I would have no hope at all and would have moved on by now. Even if we don't reconcile at least I will be comforted knowing that I did the honorable thing in front of my kids, my relatives and the world in trying to save the M.

fuanacdc-

I sometimes wish that we had a child or some other reason to communicate. We don't really have any commonality to force us to interact so my W and I can see each other. I quite literally haven't heard her voice in almost 2 months.

Well it works both ways, it does force interaction between the spouses which can be seen as a benefit but on the other hand it makes it impossible to go dark (or do the LRT) without negatively affecting the kids, and it makes it very difficult to move on to a new life too. I mentioned one of Michele's quotes about there being no such thing as divorce when kids are involved, the hard truth is that once you have kids you are forever tied to your spouse through them. I can see why second marriages have a higher failure rate because when you start blending families it just quadruples tensions because the ex is always part of things regardless. I knew all of this before BD and I was 100% committed to the M regardless of what happened. It just never dawned on me that I didn't have full say in the matter.

Will catch up on new responses in the next post

[theUF]

If it wasn't for DR and these forums I think I would have given up on W by now. The sitch just seems completely hopeless when not referenced against the patterns described on these forums. These forums help to show that there is a process to go through and there is hope for reconciliation even in the face of seemingly impossible odds. I have to admit I really don't harbor much hope anyway (W hasn't given me any reason to have any), but if not for this place I would have no hope at all and would have moved on by now. Even if we don't reconcile at least I will be comforted knowing that I did the honorable thing in front of my kids, my relatives and the world in trying to save the M.

That takes courage and strength and I applaude you.
Some outsiders see it as weakness, but most know it is far from the easy way out and it takes strength.

My sitch is fresh and I actually made a post 10 minutes ago about feelings of wanting to give up already.

[AnotherStander]

First a journaling update:

GAL- I got a phone number on someone that should be able to get me onto a coed volleyball team, woohoo! I use to play a lot of A and AA volleyball- coed, all men, 6 player, 3 on 3, 2 on 2, sand court, etc. I really miss it! Tried her last night but she wasn't in.

I also made contact with a guy in my neighborhood that I haven't talked to in a while, he has a Harley too. He's getting some people together next weekend for a lunch ride and I'm invited They go on group rides a lot, I've been wanting to find a group to ride with and they all live nearby so I'm stoked!

I've been in "bulk mode" in my weight-lifting (supplements, eating like there's no tomorrow, heavy weights with moderate reps), but since W took the scale I didn't know where I was in it. I mean, I can see I'm bigger in the mirror, but wasn't sure on weight. I was over there briefly and jumped on the scale and was surprised to see I've gained almost 20 pounds since BD. Since I'm bulking it's not all muscle, but my waist is reasonably small and I'm planning on starting a cut in December.

If the above make it sound like things are all about "me" right now, well yeah, that's GAL in a nutshell

D15 is D16 now and I'm having trouble remembering that when I mention her W and I went in together and bought her a car, so she's in heaven!

AS, I just love your attitude and approach. It is so even, balanced, practical and controlled.

Thank you so much! I wish I could say it comes easy but I fight the instincts to do something else on practically a daily basis. Probably like most others, I'm constantly second-guessing whether I'm doing the right thing, not doing enough, doing too much, etc.

I know, right? He's already the H I'd never leave!

Thank you, you are too kind I really don't want to go through this again, so hopefully my next R whether it's with W or someone else will be the one that endures!

Man, do I know what this is like! I've been living this for quite some time. All I can say is that you're doing well, stay the course.

I also wanted to say in the times I've been lurking recently that your comments to other posters have jumped out at me. I also love your attitude and approach.

Thanks! Yeah, it's tough isn't it? When I read in DR about how fighting couples need to do 180's and gauge their improvements by how much less they fight, or how calmly they can resolve things without fighting, I just think "yeah, but how about those of us that don't fight, how do we gauge progress?" We just don't have those "big" things to measure progress with.

I agree with JB. AnotherStander, I have found myself looking for your responses through threads occasionally. I hope you take comfort from knowing you are helping many of us as you are working on yourself. Keep up the great work.

Thank you, that really does warm my heart I'm so glad to hear my comments are helping others! I have to admit that often I think I'd love to see my marriage reconciled just as proof to all the wonderful people here that the techniques do work!

I even realised he has been reflecting and he's owning some mistakes.

That is a great baby step, from what I've read that is a big step for the WAS to make and is the beginning of them coming to grips with their contributions to the marital problems and the realization that their spouse is NOT 100% responsible for their unhappiness.

I really do think that with these types of spouses, we do need to reach out. It's just a matter of how, when and how often.
Maybe she might have been more comfortable with that if your S was not there?

I agree with you on reaching out, and this may not have been a good "test" because her PLL is not physical touch. Hers is AoS and QT, both of which I've been giving her as is reasonable given that we're S. It's easier to gauge a response from PT than those though, so that's why I tried that. In the end I think it's going to come down to just asking her where she is in the R, but the timing doesn't feel right just yet.

Hi AnotherStander. I just got done reading your Part I and current thread and, like so many others before me, i wish to congratulate you on your patience.

You read the whole thing? I should be congratulating you on your patience, LOL!

So sorry to hear about your sitch, alcoholism is something I've only had to deal with indirectly through distant relatives but it complicates things so much versus a "regular" WAS. I wish you the best!

What was the name of that one book you mentioned? Was it "The Happiness Project".

The Happiness Trap. Unlike books like 5LL and DR is it not a fast read, but it's worthwhile. I was really struggling with depression and anxiety when I started reading it and it gave some great tips and insights into dealing with these and other emotions.

Also, how is your W dealing with her new puppy?

She seems to be doing OK with it although I think she's getting tired of how "needy" it is. You can't hardly leave it alone for a second. I don't think she gave that much thought when she bought it!

Finally, do you have any vacation time coming up? It sounds like that might be the only way to see a period of detachment given your daily child exchange contacts.

I do, but I'm saving it for Christmas because all the kids will be off on their break. W is out of vacation time, so I don't know what she'll be doing at Christmas.

You have SO much going for you and i Pray that your W realizes it soon

Thank you! That mirrors my own prayers made several times a day! And I always pray for patience too, because as I mentioned in the previous thread I have always been impatient. That's not always a bad thing, if something needs fixing or resolving at work or at home I jump right on it and don't rest until it's done. But a lack of patience is a serious detriment in DB'ing. I also mentioned in the other thread that one of my biggest fears is that I'll get into another R and THEN W will decide she wants to come back. That would put me into a no-win situation where someone gets hurt regardless. So I try to be patient!