Limbo with a Side of Lawyers ~16 Months

[Breakdown]

Did your W meet you halfway when you were able to address your anger and communicate better? Or did you change more unilaterally?

I think for us, during our M my W came way past halfway, but I didn't act any different so eventually she just gave up. She pulled back so far that she still doesn't even realize where halfway is these days. It's actually one of our problems now...things seem great most of the time, but she continually fails to see middle ground.

It was only my strong commitment to M (or maybe my fear of giving my children the same baggage I got from divorce) that really made me start thinking thru and working on some of the serious issues.

These days, my W says things like "if you were like this 5 yrs ago, we'd have no problems." Her resentment and inability to forgive have won out in the short term, though she's starting to bend a bit.

[adinva]

Thanks for your insight Breakdown. Sometimes I think a lot of the same things happen in a M and the spouses can't talk about it deeply, and somehow here where we're all anonymous we can get inside the head of a person like our spouse. It really helps. I relate with the wives of a lot of the husbands here too, and try to provide that insight.

You asked how our sex life dried up. It seemed kind of natural. H was always lower drive than me. There were years when I'd feel sad when I threw away an empty birth control package realizing that we hadn't done it all that month so it was a waste of the medicine. When the kids were small we were both run ragged, and whoever got bedtime duty often fell asleep trying to get the kids to sleep. A bunch of times I would walk down the hall and ask him to come to bed. We didn't communicate well - I didn't want to hurt his feelings or make things worse by expressing dissatisfaction but it did sometimes come out and we'd both try harder for a while and then slip back to the same pattern.

One year he suggested I go off birth control because of the heart issues associated with it, and he'd get a vasectomy. I wanted that to be entirely his decision, and I waited and waited. We did not do well with condoms so now we were very rarely doing it. If I "took care of him" I knew it would be at least a month more before I'd have a chance for what I wanted...there was resentment building. It took him about three years to get the V. He told me in around January, and I said oh good we can get more action then, and he said, I don't know we'll see. He had it done in Feb. Recuperated in March and April....and May..........and in June he asked to separate. I asked him why he had just had a V and he said he made it a new year's resolution. No joke, that's what he said.

Breakdown, I was driving in the car yesterday and had a realization. I just realized how difficult it is to know what's in each other's heads. It's so easy to misinterpret or make wrong assumptions. Even the things we express are hard sometimes to get exactly right. I thought, if you feel something good about someone you've GOT to tell them. Even if "words of affirmation" aren't their love language, there is no other way they'll really know what's in your head unless you put it into words one way or another. I grew up in a family that discouraged this too. But it's just not fair to expect the person you love to read your mind.

The first time I wanted to tell H I loved him I wrote it in big letters on his back. The only way he ever told me he loved me was to say "I love you big baby." There were no honest sincere words that we could say, and really, what is the risk we're so afraid of? What awful thing did we prevent by never being really open with each other?

[Breakdown]

H was always lower drive than me.

My W would say the same of me...she told me quite a few times throughout our M that I should have my testosterone checked. But I don't think that was ever the issue. I had a child with another woman before my W and I got married, and the whole ordeal really changed me. I was confused and depressed, and really, I understand now that I actually punished myself for years because of what I'd done. I didn't feel like I deserved the love my W was giving me.

On top of that, I was controlling, judgmental, insecure, etc. I had a hard time showing emotion other than anger, and I always felt like that was just simmering below the surface.

I mention all this because they were all factors that prevented me from really enjoying our sex life, prevented me from really connecting with my W on a deep level. Once I started to understand some of my issues and started becoming a happier person, I wanted to ML all the time...and these days, it's more about the connection than anything else.

Maybe your H has some similar issues....some of the things he shows on the surface certainly mirror a lot of my own behavior.

What awful thing did we prevent by never being really open with each other?

I totally agree! Sometimes I tell my W how I feel these days, just so she knows. She's still unsure what to do about it, or how to take it because I was never this open before. But even if she does nothing with it, letting her know what I am feeling prevents me from becoming resentful.

[adinva]

Breakdown, what caused you to want to change, and what caused you to be able to change?

[adinva]

Oh and LaBug, I didn't miss the Hello Kitty remark - good to see you my friend, and your sense of humor is right on as always!

[Breakdown]

Breakdown, what caused you to want to change?

I've asked myself this question quite a bit. I'm not 100% sure honestly, though the BD certainly accelerated the process. Maybe it was my age, or maybe it was the fact I rarely felt happy, or maybe something else. I'm honestly not sure what sparked the thought process.

What I remember was that I started asking myself questions a couple years ago. Things like "who do I want to be?" and "what makes me happy?" and "what is important to me?" and even "what don't I like about me?"

It was a pretty casual start, and I wasn't really "working" on myself as much as I was just thinking about things. About 7-8 months after I started thinking this way my W dropped the B and then I kicked it into high gear. It was good that I had already kinda opened the path, as I had accepted that I was not who I wanted to be at this point, and understood some of my shortcomings.

...and what caused you to be able to change?

I think you can change if you want to change. For me, I definitely saw a need for it, not only to save my M (if that was even possible), but to be happy for once. I had been given so many gifts, yet I was bitter more than anything.

Now, how I went about changing, that was a lot of thinking, reading, and honestly, my bootcamp with Mach1 probably helped me thru some of my bigger issues. Once you start down the path of improving yourself, I think it's kind of natural to continue it, so that's kinda where I am now.

[adinva]

Journaling IC today. Subject was EA that got swept under the rug. Both my friends here and my IC claimed this was the first they've heard of this, but I have mentioned it in an offhand way, as the source of much of the anger and resentment that I hadn't known I was feeling. I was angry from before it and more angry after it, and it colored my relationship while I tried to pretend it wasn't there. So that's what we spent all our time on today.

I described how with my emotional limitations I felt H a kindred spirit with his own emotional limitations, and I thought we'd somehow just sort of "grow up" together. When it didn't happen, and my needs weren't acknowleged or met, I leaned on friends and avoidance to maintain my cheer. I resolved that marriage was forever, better or worse, and he was mine and I was his, flaws and all. But when he started to give all his fun outside and bring home all his crabbiness, that deal started to sour. When later he started to chit chat and enjoy company and provide support to a particular woman I was devastated - because that meant he was capable of it. He just wasn't choosing to give it to me. That hurt. When he stayed overnight at her house we had it out.

I told him this was an A, EA or PA I didn't know but he was emotionally betraying our marriage. He claimed I was wrong, misreading everything, and said he was a happily married man. I asked for counseling and he refused. I asked for us to start going out and having fun together and he agreed, and did, to the letter, cooperate. But he never really tried. The dates were not very fulfilling, he never planned any of them, and they fizzled out.

I waited a year to see if he was leaving me, and after a year he did not, the EA seemed to have settled down or gone away, and so I just dropped the anger. I thought I could. I made myself just forget it, put aside the resentment, plastered on a smile and went on with our life.

But after the bomb the first day I went to IC and we shared all the many passive aggressive things we each were doing to drive each other crazy, she asked me what I was angry about. And I said "Who, me?" You must be kidding. I'm the last person to be angry about anything. I express my feelings and let them go. I'm perfectly healthy.

It took a lot of soul searching to even remember the EA and to remember how betrayed and angry I continued to feel under the surface as H acted like he cared about me less and less.

Burying it under the rug didn't help because he still never reached out to me in any way, never acknowledged my hurt, never examined his actions, and he got crabbier and more perfectionist, and meaner. I got messier, more forgetful, more depressed. It seemed like the more perfect he became (neater, smarter, better-employed) the less I became (unambitious, no good at domestic things, unattractive). I couldn't figure out how to get off the seesaw I was so low on it. So how surprised was I when he told me he wanted a D? I thought all this time I would be the one to decide that, he would never leave, he was a "happily married man."

IC took issue right there. He was not. If we had talked more I might have pointed out how much he did not act like a happily married man. What does that even mean to him? Not to mention the fact that he wasn't creating a happy marriage with his wife, who was miserable and lonely. Second mistake - if H wasn't willing to get MC, I should have, and would now, go to IC to figure out what was going on and how I felt about it, and what to do.

I was so "AFRAID OF DIVORCE" (do you hear me PON?) that I was willing to stay silent, and watch H's behavior, and not bother him with pesky deep questions, and if he just simply didn't leave me, then that was enough for me. How pathetic is that? Wasn't I worth more? I was so afraid of blowing up my life and my kids' life that I was willing to not even be LIKED very much by my H.

And guess what. After almost 10 more years of not really very good marriage, almost completely downhill from that point, HE asked for a D anyway. And after almost 2 years fighting that with DBing and counseling and studying, I have realized I can't stop him if that's what he wants. You can't unilaterally stay married. He hasn't filed the paperwork yet but he has 100% divorced me emotionally, long ago. He's not even a very thoughtful roommate.

Just the latest two examples, he scared the cr@p out of me the other day walking in my bedroom at 6am. He got stuck in LA because of the storm, flights got cancelled, and he never communicated with me in any way except texts about housekeeping "did you get S's glasses?" "did you sweep out the drain?" - he did not tell me anything about when he'd be able to get back. He did not speak to me or either of his kids (and he did't text the kids either) for 7 days through a hurricane. And walked in the door and went to bed tired. Second - I noticed this morning he's written his initials on three containers of Greek yogurt. The head of our household and father/husband is marking his refrigerator territory like a 20 year old group housemate. puh-leeease.

My young men are growing up thinking this is normal. When they go on their business trips are they going to call home to hear their kids' voice? To say they are loved and missed? My kids have never experienced their dad doing that, so chances aren't good.

Will my kids think it's fine to go out and stay all night leaving their wives home with the kids? Why not? That's what their dad did.

Will my kids give their wives a hug and kiss for no reason, in the kitchen, when they come home? They have not ever seen that happen in their house.

I tried and tried to make this ok, and in the end, it is a terrible example for my boys and I want it to get better or stop.

Here are a few more highlights from IC today:

In a new relationship, if you're being micromanaged and that bugs you, respond to it and see what the response is. There should be a willingness to adjust to accommodate your partner's needs even if your needs are different.

Passive aggressiveness never solves anything and always makes things worse.

When H said he was a "happily married man" he was lying to himself, or he was not able to face the truth about himself.

I erred in tolerating silently his less-than-normal emotional maturity. I should have honestly responded to it. If I tried my very best to communicate my feelings and needs to him and he just didn't get it, I should have realized that I could not be with this person. Because of my own emotional maturity and my upbringing that discouraged acknowledging or expressing needs, I did not figure this out when we were dating or in the carefree fun early years of marriage. When kids and the regular stresses of life came up, I learned there was nothing there.

I need to set limits and boundaries in my living situation.

A possible message for my husband. I can no longer live this way. If you are not willing to go to therapy or to work on repairing this relationship, our living situation needs to change.

Either he needs to move out (preferred) or move to a different room (seems awkward, and more horrible than just getting out).

I'm not willing to keep sharing a room and acting like we're still married when H has no intention of being a husband to me.

And the kids need to be told that this is not right, it's not how it should be, and things are changing.

[needgrace]

(((((((((((((((((((adinva))))))))))))))))))))

what courage you have displayed in this last post. i admire your strength in facing yourself, your H, your M and the impact on your family so honestly.

your post set an example i would like to follow.. thank you.

[keep_going]

(((((Ad))))))

Thanks again for sharing so openly where you are at. I can only imagine how hard it is to not only come to terms with these realizations, but to accept them as what is at this time.

I'm not willing to keep sharing a room and acting like we're still married when H has no intention of being a husband to me.

And the kids need to be told that this is not right, it's not how it should be, and things are changing.

As for this ^^^^^^, all I can say is BINGO! You are a brave, strong woman and you should be proud of standing up for yourself and your kids.

Yes... You all deserve better.

We are here for you, Ad.

[labug]

Ad, I'm actually encouraged that you're uncovering this stuff. I know it's painful, but necessary. You can put a bandaid on an infected wound but it won't heal without treating the infection. The more infected, the more painful the treatment.

You have my support.