Thanks CES. I guess I don't feel like I am waiting. I hope and am emotionally ready for a time when H says, wait, this isn't what I want anymore, can we work this out? I would say yes, if I have a partner who's interested and trying, I can give it a good shot.
Rather than waiting, I'm just slowing rolling with what's happening. I'm not rushing to meet with my financial advisor who will prepare the financial aspects of our separation agreement. But I did finally after about 2 weeks mail her the contract and a check to work with her on this.
I'm not rushing to set up an appointment with my L to write up the rest of the separation agreement, but I've come around to believing handling it that way at H's suggestion is in my best interest. I didn't want to "help" this much but refusing to do these on principle can hurt my future and my kids' future.
I think letting go of the rope means going ahead and working on a separation agreement if that's what H wants.
There's a chance of what a lot of us are afraid of, that if we don't keep holding the rope our WAS will one day say "Why didn't you even look back once? I didn't really want this." In my case, when I really look objectively at my sitch, I think my H knows well enough that I don't want this, and that I haven't put any obstacles in the way of changing his mind. So that line of thinking is just plain denial of reality.
Now, that doesn't mean I'm not trying to speak H's love language and be someone he'd want to come back to. I have been doing acts of service such as driving him to and from airports, which I know he likes, and being more conscientious about taking care of the house and yard, and following through on things I say that I'll do that he wants done. I'm cooking meals that he's welcome to, and cleaning up after them. I've thanked and appreciated verbally his doing the laundry which is his responsibility anyway, and fixing the garage door, and big praise for his electric fence which is such a clever and well engineered solution for our runaway dog. I've stopped resisting him just because our opinions differ, and so now our two dogs are cropped short. He's having such fun controlling the length of their fur that he mailordered a new clipper and mentions it a couple of times a day. I told him they look cute and probably feel much cooler. I've completely stopped challenging his staying in bed all afternoon and evening and instead just try to have fun activities or meals in the house that he can join in when he comes downstairs. I've lightened up bigtime, and I don't think I was that much of a nag to start with. I'm leaving a lot more room for who he is rather than telling him how I think he should be.
What I can do that I haven't is ask for his advice on my life and disability insurance quotes. We were at loggerheads on that because he was mad that I didn't do things his way before he even told me what his way was. He expects mindreading and is mad when I'm just not his way to start with. He was sarcastic and loud about his opinion when he heard I got a quote and he cited his years of insurance sales training and success record. So I tried. I told him what I supposed the reasoning for insurance to age 70 might have been and pointed out that if he were advising one of his customers he wouldn't be able to use "well that's just ridiculous" as his reasoning, he'd actually have to provide a reasoning. Since I'm his W he skips the explanation and just expects me to do as told no questions asked. Well I need to sort out my own information now, but I'll listen to his contribution if he wants to provide it.
News on the home improvement front - my parents decided to decline my offer to share housing with them. Also my S12 asked me not to get a renter, he just would like to have our house to ourselves. I don't want to disregard his comfort - just because I liked having a college student around doesn't mean my kid did.
Adinva 51, S20, S18 M24 total 6/15/11-12/1/12 From IDLY to H moving out 9/15/15-3/7/17 From negotiating SA to final D at age 50 5/8/17-now: New relationship with an old friend __ Happiness is a warm puppy.
There's a chance of what a lot of us are afraid of, that if we don't keep holding the rope our WAS will one day say "Why didn't you even look back once? I didn't really want this." In my case, when I really look objectively at my sitch, I think my H knows well enough that I don't want this, and that I haven't put any obstacles in the way of changing his mind. So that line of thinking is just plain denial of reality.
Yes.
If they want back in, they can say that. They were able to say they wanted out.
And I have to think, do I want a man who is (still) unable to express his needs or who continues on a bad path on principle.
Me 57/H 58 M36 S 2.5yrs R 12/13
Let me give up the need to know why things happen as they do. I will never know and constant wondering is constant suffering. Caroline Myss
And I have to think, do I want a man who is (still) unable to express his needs or who continues on a bad path filled with negative consequences on principle.
Me 57/H 58 M36 S 2.5yrs R 12/13
Let me give up the need to know why things happen as they do. I will never know and constant wondering is constant suffering. Caroline Myss
Yes, hello CV I missed you. My answer is I don't. I'm not in it to win it. I gave this lots of chances and lots of work. I'm not in a hurry to get divorced but I'm not stopping it if that's his decision.
I know in my heart I did everything I was capable of, left no stone unturned, made myself completely vulnerable. I learned why I was reactive and oppositional and I am no longer either of those things. I learned why we had such trouble talking intimately and I have practiced all year on safe and deeper subjects, testing my ability to communicate with H. I feel a lot more confident in my ability to do that, and have noticed its effects at work and with my kids too. I learned that neat and messy can coexist through cooperative negotiation and have put that into practice in my house, creating more peace than we had in years. I learned to separate my identity from my H and kids and not to try to manage all of their thoughts and emotions to match mine - I learned to see them for who they really are and appreciate our differences. I learned that my H can hurt me to the core and I still love him and want him, but not to the detriment of my fundamental needs. I know WAY better now how to get my needs met without resentment, whining, manipulation, anger. I know now not to stuff and ignore my needs, they are important to me.
So I've completely let go of the idea of winning or losing in this. Either way I come out I come out much better off. I'm still extremely hurt and angry that H is unwilling or unable to be a husband to me, but it is his decision and I've decided to respect it.
My question was in response to suggestions that I continue db-ish tactics like acting needy as a way of appealing to his attraction to "damsels in distress". I don't think I'm in 37 step land anymore, trying to get control of myself in the initial shock of a bomb. I'm in the time part of the consistent change + time equation. I'm not done improving as a person and relationship partner; I think that's a lifelong goal.
I will not call off our impending divorce if there is no reason to believe he will do any work on our relationship. So far he's given no reason to believe that.
Adinva 51, S20, S18 M24 total 6/15/11-12/1/12 From IDLY to H moving out 9/15/15-3/7/17 From negotiating SA to final D at age 50 5/8/17-now: New relationship with an old friend __ Happiness is a warm puppy.
I should say, I wouldn't advise anyone to walk away in the initial months or even year of hearing "i don't love you, never did, don't want to be with you." That's script.
But I've been hearing it through 14 months of really good DBing and IC, with not a glimmer of second thoughts. After a very long time I think standing becomes denial of reality. My H divorced me emotionally a very long time ago and I've done all I could do with no effect.
If H goes ahead and processes this divorce and continues to be emotionally unavailable, I don't want this marriage anymore and I'll move along.
Adinva 51, S20, S18 M24 total 6/15/11-12/1/12 From IDLY to H moving out 9/15/15-3/7/17 From negotiating SA to final D at age 50 5/8/17-now: New relationship with an old friend __ Happiness is a warm puppy.
I'm sorry Adinva. I don't know your sitch, but I read your posts on other threads. It sounds like you've done everything that you can to save your M. You should be proud.
Denver
M 43 X 38 T 13 W moves out of home 11/2010 Roller coaster from hell 2/2011-5/2012 I request divorce 5/2012 W moves home 6/2012 Good time 7/2012 - 1/2015 I leave 3/2016 process of divorce
But I've been hearing it through 14 months of really good DBing and IC, with not a glimmer of second thoughts. After a very long time I think standing becomes denial of reality. My H divorced me emotionally a very long time ago and I've done all I could do with no effect.
If H goes ahead and processes this divorce and continues to be emotionally unavailable, I don't want this marriage anymore and I'll move along.
I should say, I wouldn't advise anyone to walk away in the initial months or even year of hearing "i don't love you, never did, don't want to be with you." That's script.
I know you haven't met me in person, but I just want you to imagine the look on my face when I read this. LOL
Okay, seriously, I do wonder if I had just said okay let's D in January, or H had actually left after BD, if I'd be further along in this process. I'll never know, but it is something I've been thinking about lately.
Thanks, Ad. I've been keeping up, just don't have much of anything to offer.
Ad, you have an incredible list of accomplishments. You really do. I'm not sure most of us can even identify a list like that, much less manage to overcome them. You should feel proud, not only for having accomplished, but for putting the work into digging deep and understanding and even taking on the challenge. It's very easy to just blame it on someone else as being "their problem." But you didn't do that even with no real encouragement--much less guarantee--of getting your M back. You can only come out of this a better person, whether with your H or not. In fact, it's quite possible that if your H came back as he has always been, it might not work for you because you are NOT the same person.
I had a thought this morning shortly after I got up. I don't know where it came from, maybe from something I dreamed or heard on the radio without really listening. It went something like, "Why is it that whenever people love something, they either have to own it or f--k it or consume it?" It runs completely contrary to the philosophy, "If you love something, let it go; if it comes back it's yours, if it doesn't it never was." We can't possibly own/care for/afford all the things we "love" and yet we have an infinite ability to love, which evidences that we can love without possessing. Throw in the economics theory of the law of diminishing marginal returns (the more you have of something the less you value it) and it makes no sense at all. We should want to grasp virtually nothing that we care about. It also might make people not want to be loved because they don't want to feel owned/possessed.
I certainly don't have this worked out in my head, and I'm not even sure what to do with it if anything. But it popped into my head again in regards to reading about you and your H, and the theories behind DB of not begging and acting "as-if" and GAL, etc. You said you still love your H. Is it possible for you to continue to love him in a similar fashion even when he is no longer your H?
If you "love something and let it go and it doesn't come back," does that mean you have to stop loving it? Is the problem with a M break-up the fact that the person we love is no longer available for us to love, or is it really that we are no longer getting what we want from the M? If the answer is the first part, why does the love have to stop? If the answer is the second part, is that really a good way to be in a M?
I love a ton of people. Not one of them do I care about because of what they do "for me." There are some people that I care about even though they annoy the heck out of me and I don't really care to spend much time with them. There are some people that I still love even though I haven't spoke to them in years. I'm not M'd to any of them.
It seems obvious to me that your H still loves you, based on him still doing things around the house or trying to make sure you make wise investment decisions (aka. controlling.) It doesn't sound like he is being cruel or vindictive. It sounds like he has been unable to work out a way to enjoy/appreciate your company or living with you. This is not a reflection on you personally, just a reflection on the combination.
So, if you're not getting your emotional needs met from your H, and seemingly haven't been for some time, what are you trying to save? These changes are for you, which is absolutely great, so they can/should proceed regardless.
