14 Months Secret Separation: talking mediation

[adinva]

H is all in my business and I think I was non-db for a moment.

I opened a new bank account at the advice of my book and my financial advisor, and should be beginning to establish credit in my name. Since I have bank accounts at five different banks due to my personal, job, and volunteer activities, I happen to like one of them better than the one H and I have been banking at for 20 years, so I opened my account there, and that reduces the number of banks I'll be dealing with down to four. Whatev. I mean, the interest rates are laughable, the fees are comparable, it's not like I made a stupid decision, and it was mine to make.

So H is all, why did you get an account there? Why not at the same bank we had? What are they going to charge you at non-bank ATMs? You know you get those charges, how many ATMs do they have, and where are they? Name the closest one! Well that's not as close as ours! (I decided to point out to him that I rarely use ATMs at all, and only very rarely need to get money out from an ATM somewhere that doesn't happen to be at our bank, like maybe once or twice a year. I pointed out that we're talking maybe $4/yr.) He was like, well that's my $4 a month you're spending, so I clarified again and then got a little fed up.

So I said, honestly? Do you really care where I bank? If we had the same bank account I would happily cooperate with you on it, but I'd like you to not care about this since it's MY account. So H goes, FINE - I'll NOT care. and I said Good, that will be better for you. And he went on his way.

Honestly. You want to divorce me and run my life anyway? OK, back to DB land, sorry for getting off track.

[adinva]

Oh yeah, another possible non-db moment today. I decided to jump in and ask him a question that might have set off a negative interaction but felt it was important, and was a big change from how we used to interact.

H got ready to walk to Starbucks and S12 was lying on the couch and I was finishing up dishes. He said anyone want to go with me? S12 said no. H said...anyone? So I said sure! and went along with him. We each took one of the dogs. On the way home I had 3/4 of a hot cup of coffee and the more rambunctious of the dogs. He sometimes likes to jump in the fountain so as we neared it I slowed down and noticed a very pretty little girl in a dress holding a bouquet of flowers next to the fountain. The dog got up a little close to her and H freaked out a little and urgently told me to pull him back, which I did. No harm no foul and H was like why didn't you pull him back sooner? And I said well I did after all. We continued to the stoplight. Then H asked me again why did you let T get all in her face? Did you think that was OK? Why did you do that?

I was about ready to blow it off again. This is a typical old-time type of exchange where he just can't let anyone save face, won't back down, and seems to be looking for some kind of submission I can quite understand. So ordinarily I would just dig in my heels, continue on, and try not to worry about him. I would have thought he was being unreasonable, and I would have felt mild dissatisfaction that I didn't know how to resolve the situation. I decided this time I would not blow it off.

So I said, H, I don't want to sound like I'm trying to start an argument, but I just want to clarify something. When that happened back there you said something and I responded. And then you brought it back up again. What kind of a response are you looking for when you do that? Do you want me to more visibly feel bad about what happened? Do you want me to say something in particular? I just don't know what you want out of that.

H said he wanted to know if I really thought it was ok to let the dog get in little girls' faces. He certainly didn't. It might have frightened her and she might have fallen backward and cracked her skull. He said he takes extreme measures to always be diligent about things that could happen like that. He didn't like that I did not. (Yet again showing me how differently we view the world - I saw a calm smiling child and he saw a potential cracked skull.)

I told him I really did believe the same as he did, that the dog should not be up in people's faces. In fact, I had assumed that we would both feel that way. I did feel bad about what happened and felt bad that I had let myself get distracted by my coffee and the cute girl, but I didn't know what else I could say about it that would make him feel better.

It was an interesting conversation and I was glad I went out on a limb to ask him about it so I'd know more where he was coming from and he'd know more how his bringing stuff up over and over came across.

It was more of an anthropological exploration than an emotional conversation, and I felt like our walk was improved because we'd had it.

[BklynMom]

This is my warped take on today:

Your H like every other MLC person wants to be validated. They want to be told they have the biggest..., they are yearning to hear that they are the best financial decision maker ever, no one but them knows how to handle/train a dog.

He wants to feel like a man again. Whatever that means.

I know its so counter intuitive when he is the one that wants to end the marriage but do whatever you can to tell him how smart and great he is. He is in a mental crisis.

Obviously a regular person that wants to D his W would not care what bank their W choose but your H is begging to hear you tell him that he is sooooo smart. This is what the younger woman do.

Unfortunately we need to carry the load right now.

[adinva]

Oooohhhh! THAT explains why he was so bent out of shape that I got a life insurance quote! He said to age 70 was completely ridiculous and if my advisor said to quote that she's an idiot. I requested a 15, 20, and 25 (ie to age 70) year quote just to compare. H sold life insurance at the beginning of his career and he is just so p.o'd that I'm talking to anyone else about it.

That said, I will have to think about this. Is it better for me to simper and suppress my independent streak, or is it better for him to see that I'm moving on and feel whatever discomfort there is to feel with that?

I cannot rely on his investment advice if he's my adversary in a divorce...and that is his choice.

[BklynMom]

I think you should try the swooning method I suggest and see if he likes it. Obviously you dont need to go with the advice he gives you but maybe ask him to explain why 70 is crazy.

You can not rely on his advice but you can ask him for it and then measure it against what the advisor suggests.

Doing this will not make him wake up tomorrow and say I dont want a D but over time it will make him feel like you respect him as a man. I really think men like to feel like they are in control and being in charge of the money is one way they feel empowered.

I told my 3 yr old in front of my H "Daddy has to work hard to pay for your birthday party." (even though we both work) I went on about how expensive the party is & that Daddy is paying - He loved it. Hasnt changed the fact that we are moving forward with the D but I could tell he liked it.

[RoRoinMD]

BK is on to something here. I can thank H for some random chore he did or ask him a question about something and I swear he almost struts like a peacock. It's actually rather funny. LOL

If you decide to try it, let us know how it goes!

[Accuray]

Wow Ad, H seems like a tough man. What do you think is behind all these behaviors? He really seems to have a controlling drive, need to be right, and need to be acknowledged as "right". I realize you're venting and he isn't *always* like that, but those are a few examples in a short span of time. It seems like if he has an opportunity to *prove* that you did something less than he would have done, or to a lower standard, he rubs your nose in it until he feels you've given in.

I think *part* of that is a man thing, but it seems very extreme. My W frequently crashes our cars. She drives too fast and doesn't pay attention. Last week she borrowed FiL's car and tore the front bumper off it by running over some boulders while she was turning around. I was in the car with her yesterday and she was backing up by looking in the rearview mirror instead of turning around. I said "You're backing up without looking! Please turn around and look out the back window when you back up!" She said "I'm looking, I know what I'm doing" and then made some snippy comment like "Yeah, I'm just going backwards and paying no attention". I felt I was a bit over the line just criticizing her driving, but if I'm a 4 on the complaining man scale, your H is a 9 -- Yikes!

Accuray

[adinva]

Thanks for the reality check Accuray! My h really is a 9. He's been waaaaaaay better since our bomb and three sessions of counseling together because I feel a lot more understanding and don't react to him in anger the way I used to. He is really challenging to get along with, but I have noticed it's just me and the kids - he is NOT like that with friends and coworkers and seems relaxed and happy with them. He complains behind their back to me later.

At our cookout long ago, the guys weekend that Purg and I crashed, one of the buddies asked me if I would change and act more helpless to get my H or a man. I had to think through my immediate negative reaction and after thought still I thought, no. I don't believe I want to put on an act to seem more feminine and needy than I am.

However, just for you Ro and Bklyn, I'll take the advice to heart and look for real things I do respect about H and convey that and report back.

We may be at an impasse though. My H seems to really need to feel needed - in ways that I don't really need him, and I really need an emotional connection - which H refuses to or is incapable of providing. I might win him back and not want what I got. I'd rather if he comes back it's because he finally feels the lack of emotional connection and decides he wants to learn how to build it.

[ces67]

Maybe the litmus test for you is whether or not you'd feel resentment afterwards for acting a certain way? Not sure, but no sense becoming someone you're not to get someone you don't need....but you figured that out already...

[labug]

Ad, I'm embarrassed to say that my H would probably describe the me of 2 years ago much the same way.

The good news is it can be changed, the bad news is the person has to recognize it, search their soul and work really hard. It is not an easy process.

I've said to him that I wished he had loved me enough to sit me down and say: "Bug, I love you but something is wrong. You do x, y, z and it's driving me and the boys away." Would that have worked, don't know. He did tell me on a few occasions that I was too critical and unhappy and that he couldn't do anything right. At that time I of course thought he was the reason for all my problems.

What did work-S(19) invited me to a session with his psychologist and said pretty much what I said up there^. And then a few months later, BD#2.

He won't change until the pain of continuing in this way is greater than the pain of changing.