Transparency

[Starsky309]

Good of you to post that after knowing you for 19 months Starsky!

I know, I know. Seriously, I was trying not to create any "LOOK AT ME! LOOK AT ME!"-drama. But it's only fair to be transparent about it now, since people are asking me, and for the reasons I state in my post above.

And thanks for the nice note. I know I bust your balls on occasion (like today! ), but it's only because:

a. I care; and

b. I've been there (and to some degrees, still am).

I've had to learn a whole lot about myself -- and my wife -- over the past five years, and some of it hasn't been pretty. But I've learned that it's emotionally healthy to get to know -- and to learn how to deal with -- yourself and your spouse AS THEY ARE, and not as some image on a pedestal of how you WISH THEY WOULD BE (if only you were a good boy, and said and did all the right things).

It's tough stuff. But sooooooo worth it!!


Starsky

[needgrace]

thank you for sharing so openly, Starsky, and for caring so much about helping others. that is one of the things that is so incredible about this site, the giving back. it reinforces for me, how tough this all really is, and how much strength it takes to dig deep within and confront our real selves and theirs. thanks.

[Denver_2010]

Good of you to post that after knowing you for 19 months Starsky!

I know, I know. Seriously, I was trying not to create any "LOOK AT ME! LOOK AT ME!"-drama. But it's only fair to be transparent about it now, since people are asking me, and for the reasons I state in my post above.

And thanks for the nice note. I know I bust your balls on occasion (like today! ), but it's only because:

a. I care; and

b. I've been there (and to some degrees, still am).

I've had to learn a whole lot about myself -- and my wife -- over the past five years, and some of it hasn't been pretty. But I've learned that it's emotionally healthy to get to know -- and to learn how to deal with -- yourself and your spouse AS THEY ARE, and not as some image on a pedestal of how you WISH THEY WOULD BE (if only you were a good boy, and said and did all the right things).

It's tough stuff. But sooooooo worth it!!


Starsky

I agree Starsky. And yes, I know that you always have good intentions and do care. Hell, why would you spend the time that you do here on this board if you didn't?! (I say this right now not having read your most recent 'busting of my balls' post that I assume is over on the piecing forum... LOL!)

[Starsky309]

I agree Starsky. And yes, I know that you always have good intentions and do care. Hell, why would you spend the time that you do here on this board if you didn't?! (I say this right now not having read your most recent 'busting of my balls' post that I assume is over on the piecing forum... LOL!)

Yep, it is waiting for you over there. So you may want to take it all back after you've read it.

[Denver_2010]

I agree Starsky. And yes, I know that you always have good intentions and do care. Hell, why would you spend the time that you do here on this board if you didn't?! (I say this right now not having read your most recent 'busting of my balls' post that I assume is over on the piecing forum... LOL!)

Yep, it is waiting for you over there. So you may want to take it all back after you've read it.

Nah! I can take it. Keeps me on my toes!

[Cadet]

a. I care; and

b. I've been there (and to some degrees, still am).

Is there any more to part b?

[Starsky309]

a. I care; and

b. I've been there (and to some degrees, still am).

Is there any more to part b?

No, LOL -- just meant to acknowledge that "Piecing" is a lifelong journey for a marriage. We also do still have SSM issues, but heck those have been going on for 20 years.

[pookie69]

Cheers Pup.

You've been there and done it.

Brave to letting it all hang out.

Pay forward as you always have.

[sgctxok]

In an effort to be more transparent with everyone, and since I've been asked a lot of questions (by zig and others) about my own sitch, I decided to post a link to it, here.

I used to post under two different usernames -- at first, "Chocolateeyes," and then later as "Puppy Dog Tails." For reasons that I won't get into in a lot of detail, I was banned and had to change my username, and promise to follow the rules (no posting links to other marital helpsites, no links to other non-MWD books, no advocating exposure, etc.). It was my fault, agree or disagree this is MWD's site and we are here at her courtesy, and hence "Starsky" was born, and I've continued to try to help pay-it-forward as it were.

The problem is, there's no context for a lot of my advice -- no backstory to what worked for me, what didn't work, what mistakes I made and what successes I had (we ultimately saved our marriage, praise God!).

I hope this is OK, and if not I'll just ask the mods to delete this post, but here are my old threads:

Chocolateeyes:

Choc's old threads http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...osts&page=1


Puppy Dog Tails:

Puppy's old threads http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=userposts&id=19113


I hope those links work. I'd be happy to answer any questions. For reference, I got the bomb on 5/27/2007, and we reconciled (with some fits and starts) in late-August of that same year.

Here's my story, from my personal archives:


My Story:

I actually had two main confrontations with my wife. Initially, I had suspicions, based on the way she was acting and some of the things she was googling on the computer (I had a keylogger). Naturally, she denied it -- twice.

Then one night I was out of town, at my dad's 80th birthday party, and she stayed home with the kids. I got an e-mail on my BlackBerry from my keylogger, showing that she was searching "older woman/younger man" and "sexual positions" etc. on the home computer. I felt sick to my stomach, and like an ox was standing on my chest. I couldn't breathe, and I didn't know if I should tell my folks and my siblings, or try to keep it to myself.

I was up all night, distraught, and phoned my wife and confronted her around midnight. "You're up late," I said. "Yeah, I couldn't sleep," she replied. She sounded nervous. "What are you doing?" I asked, and she could tell something was wrong. "Just on the computer," she said. "What's wrong?"

(pause)

"Look, I know all about you and (OM's first name), and it needs to stop. Immediately. This is incredibly disrespectful to me, to our marriage, and to our family." She tried to deny it at first, but I persisted (without revealing my intel), saying "Please STOP IT. We both know you're lying to me right now, and it's horribly disrespectful. If you're going to lie to me, I'm just going to hang up."

She then SORT of told me the truth, denying that it had become physical (which I later found out was also a lie).

I exposed to our adult daughters that night, via a phone call. My D-then-18 already knew, as she had suspected something and her and her best friend had followed her mother one night a couple of weeks ago, and caught her coming out of a bar with the guy, and saw them get into a car together. The poor thing had been keeping this all to herself, because she didn't want to upset her daddy. She broke down on the phone and cried, and so did I.

I told both her and her sister (D-then-20) that I loved their mother very much, did NOT want a divorce, but I also wasn't going tolerate this kind of disrespect. I WOULD NOT LIVE IN AN OPEN MARRIAGE. They both said they understood, and respected my position. D18 wanted to confront OM that next day, and I talked her down, and told them both just to wait until I got back from my trip and we could discuss it as a family.

I also exposed to my parents and siblings the next morning, as I felt I needed their support. In the ensuing couple of weeks, I gave my wife repeated chances to end the affair -- she refused 5-6x -- and then I finally exposed to her parents, OM's parents (he lived with his parents!) and their employer, on whose premises the affair was partly taking place. Since the kid was also studying to become a cop, and was going thru the Academy, I found out that there was a "public review" process and I wrote a letter to his file, exposing their affair, and opposing his candidacy to become a police officer.

About 50 days in, I filed for divorce, after she repeatedly threatened to divorce ME. I felt I needed to protect myself, and decided to go for full custody of our boys.

Despite all of this, and my tightening the finances to stop paying for anything that was enabling her affair (cellphone, plastic surgery payment, haircoloring, etc.), her affair continued -- heated up -- for 60 days. I then RE-confronted her, with the "NO MORE DECEIT" confrontation (it's all in my old Chocolateeyes threads; Summer of 2007). This re-confrontation took place in her car, in a department store parking lot, when I told her one evening that "we need to talk." I had decided that while I may not be able to stop her from having an affair, I damned sure wasn't going to let her continue to LIE about it to her parents and to our adult daughters, and try to say that I was being "paranoid" and accusing HER, when everything I was claiming was 100% TRUE.

I told her at this meeting "you either tell them, or I will, and I will show them my evidence."

I gave her 5 minutes to decide.

She told them.

It took about another month before she fully ended it and begged me to take her back, but make no mistake -- that night was basically the beginning of the death of her affair. She had one backslide, about 2 weeks into no-contact/transparency, which she self-confessed, and we got thru it. After two 3-month "stays" of the divorce action, I finally withdrew it the following Spring.

We had fits and starts over the next couple of years, nearing divorce twice (even met with the mediator), ending with a mutually-agreed-upon separation this summer, where we would try to date each other, but each would date other people (she had initially INSISTED on this, and I initially said it was a DEALBREAKER. I then changed my mind, based mostly on Gucci's and Robx's stuff on here). Not two weeks into that arrangement, she called me in tears (I was on my one and only "date"), and long story short, I moved back in with her and we agreed to MC and we fully reconciled.

We've had some tough moments, but our marriage is stronger than it's ever been. The MC is fantastic (had been my wife's IC), holds our feet to the fire, and we're finally starting to deal with some of our sex-starved marriage issues and my wife's problems with intimacy. Turns out MWD's books (along with Harley, Glass and some of my other faves) were all over the MC's office! I knew I had found the right place for us. My wife and I are better friends than we have ever been, have ML more in the past 3 months than we had in the past six YEARS, and I'd say we are "Piecing" at this point, to use the DB phrase.

I hope that helps. That's an awfully long answer to a short question, but I thought I'd just put it all out there.

Puppy

I should add as a P.S.

Throughout all of these "tough stances," I maintained a "loving detachment" towards my wayward wife. Oh, we had our moments -- three or four real blow-ups -- but for the most part, we managed to keep things civil. I laid out some boundaries (no family finances used to enable your affair, no TMing or phoning OM from inside our home, no TMing or phoning OM in front of our sons, from ANYWHERE, if you're going to come home after 1am, don't bother coming home, etc.), and I must say, she respected them almost completely.

The "loving" part of "loving detachment" comes easier for you, trust me, when you maintain full intel ("snooping") and you hear and see the things that I heard and saw. But I did try to "shine a light back towards the marriage, even as I never wavered from my Main Boundary ("I will not live in an open marriage") and my sub-boundaries mentioned above. I would do occasional loving Acts of Service for my wife, such as pulling her car in the garage late at nite, or covering her with a blanket when she fell asleep on the couch, kissing her on the forehead, etc.

I believe that this "hybrid" approach -- aggressive confrontation & exposure, firm boundaries, cut off all financial enabling, strong legal stance; coupled with DBing principles such as GAL, "be the better option," 180s, etc. -- is what works best when there is active infidelity involved.

Reasonable people may disagree, but this is what worked for me, and this is also what I have seen work in my time on these boards, as well as my study of literally thousands of affairs.


I apologize for any confusion, and for not providing this sooner. I really didn't want to add any more drama to the sitch, but I do want to be 100% honest with everyone now, warts and all.

Paul/Choc/Puppy/Starsky

To ALL of you. I suport you putting this out there. We don't agree on a TON of descriptions on here. I agree with your heart. You are one of the good guys.

Of course you can slam me back and probably will, but if you opened your mind and heart, this would be fixed. I personally believe you have had succes because you "


1)Are a great guy with a great heart
2) Are a leader
2) Just have some charisma...good looks, funny ness etc.


I believe you would be MORE THAN OUTSTANDING if you weren't so stubborn. Pretty sure you can do better than a SSM. Have you seen the new movie with Meryl Streep...maybe it wouldn't relate, maybe it would.


So I'm sure you can and would enlighten me about myself .

But...for what it's worth...Thank you for all you do here, the fetching Mrs. Puppy is lucky to have you as are all your kids.


There are 2 songs I think about you when I hear them, might not get the titles right, they are not on a clearchannel station, KLOVE:


"I will praise you in this storm"
"Lead ME" (might not be right title...Lead me with strong hands"...I'm sure you lead your family.


You iwll prevail, whether or not you detach.

[sgctxok]

And just saying.. as a woman in the age bracket...


Sometimes, I THINK... the SSM issues are about our physiology, about less estrogen and more relative testosterone, or whatever, and less parenting, more career goals. We are focused less on the relationship and more on our goals.

Like when you men were in your 35-40's and more interested in your career.


It MIGHT NOT be personal. Not that you should leave it at that... but it might not be the Puppy's charisma.