Interpretation of MWD and DR regarding infidelity

[Accuray]

zig,

I can share my perspective on what the options are. When I got into this mess, I felt terribly guilty, I probably took on way too much of the responsibility, because I really WAS a good husband before. In any case, I figured if I allowed my marriage to go to sh!t, I better take a really close look at myself, or I'd probably end up back here again with someone new. Therefore, I dug in deep, and it was painful and it sucked, and I'm still not done, but the rate of change has slowed as I get closer to my goals.

Here's the options I discovered:

1) Keep working -- keep having faith that time and consistency will finally make a difference. The Marriage Builders website suggests that if you are successful in removing all the "love busters" that prevent you from making love bank deposits, and are also successful in meeting your partner's needs and filling their bank, that eventually, you'll tip the scales and they will be back "in love" and reinvested in the marriage. The site says that doesn't happen slowly, it's like a switch gets flipped -- but it can take two years or more! It takes crazy, crazy patience. I'm not sure I believe that, but they claim success stories. In any case, option one is head down, keep working.

2) Acceptance -- Accept that your sitch "is what it is" and just decide to live with it. Stop looking for improvement and "just be", taking what you're getting and making that enough. Some sites say that dropping expectations never works and you're just fooling yourself temporarily, but this is an option you can pursue -- just say "good enough". I think this more applies to a situation where you get stalled in piecing.

3) Move On -- Decide you're done. I was thinking about detachment the other day, and detachment is really a campaign to snuff out the romantic love that remains for your partner. As long as you have romantic feelings for them, you are not detached. Once those feelings are snuffed, you can truly move on. Once again, going back to Marriage Builders philosophy, eventually your spouse will completely run down your accumulated "love bank balance" and you will simply not be interested in persisting. I don't believe you can will yourself to get there faster, I think it just happens. That's when you "drop the rope" as Denver, LITB, and Starsky all eventually did. It seems this is *sometimes* a wake up call to the WAS who finally realizes that you really are gone, and are likely not coming back. It seems like that's the first time many of them really think about what they're doing. There are certainly many other cases, however, where the wakeup call never comes and the WAS does NOT come back -- unfortunately that's probably the majority of the time. The other issue is that if you've dropped the rope and your love bank is empty, you may not WANT them back. You're certainly susceptible to them for the same reasons you were initially, but now you've got scar tissue.

That's my $0.02 on your options.

Accuray

[~ kd ~]

3) Move On -- Decide you're done. I was thinking about detachment the other day, and detachment is really a campaign to snuff out the romantic love that remains for your partner. As long as you have romantic feelings for them, you are not detached. Once those feelings are snuffed, you can truly move on. Once again, going back to Marriage Builders philosophy, eventually your spouse will completely run down your accumulated "love bank balance" and you will simply not be interested in persisting. I don't believe you can will yourself to get there faster, I think it just happens. That's when you "drop the rope" as Denver, LITB, and Starsky all eventually did. It seems this is *sometimes* a wake up call to the WAS who finally realizes that you really are gone, and are likely not coming back. It seems like that's the first time many of them really think about what they're doing. There are certainly many other cases, however, where the wakeup call never comes and the WAS does NOT come back -- unfortunately that's probably the majority of the time. The other issue is that if you've dropped the rope and your love bank is empty, you may not WANT them back. You're certainly susceptible to them for the same reasons you were initially, but now you've got scar tissue.

That's well said, Acc.

And absolutely about the scar tissue. I think THAT is what we can also work on and through, prior to exiting the M/R for good.

I think THAT again, is part of the question of how to approach and "work oneself up to" finally moving on. Doing it with anger and fear, or doing it with compassion and forgiveness. I believe the choices we make that lead up to moving on, really do determine the scars we may take away into future Rs and life...

[Starsky309]

Zig,

Why do you suppose that people who are very sure of their approach, bother you so much?


Starsky

[Denver_2010]

3) Move On -- Decide you're done. I was thinking about detachment the other day, and detachment is really a campaign to snuff out the romantic love that remains for your partner. As long as you have romantic feelings for them, you are not detached. Once those feelings are snuffed, you can truly move on. Once again, going back to Marriage Builders philosophy, eventually your spouse will completely run down your accumulated "love bank balance" and you will simply not be interested in persisting. I don't believe you can will yourself to get there faster, I think it just happens. That's when you "drop the rope" as Denver, LITB, and Starsky all eventually did. It seems this is *sometimes* a wake up call to the WAS who finally realizes that you really are gone, and are likely not coming back. It seems like that's the first time many of them really think about what they're doing. There are certainly many other cases, however, where the wakeup call never comes and the WAS does NOT come back -- unfortunately that's probably the majority of the time. The other issue is that if you've dropped the rope and your love bank is empty, you may not WANT them back. You're certainly susceptible to them for the same reasons you were initially, but now you've got scar tissue.

That's my $0.02 on your options.

Accuray

As Starsky says... BINGO!!

[Denver_2010]

Denver, that was one of the best things I've read here in a long time. I think I'm behind you and will need to get to the point where I walk away before things can get better. It's such a painful, painful breaking point to get to, but absent that catalyst I think you can hang in a stalemate for a long time. Thank you so much for posting it!

Accuray

Trust me Accuray, you can hang in the stalemate (limbo) for a very long time. But like you said in another post on this topic, eventually you just don't have the energy to do it.... Your WAS uses up what is in your 'love bank'. I actually used that term with others when I made the decision to walk away from my situation. It is definitely true. But you can't force yourself to get there. It is all a process.

[zig]

aah accuray - i knew that someone would eventually be able to articulate clearly what you have just managed to do.

i think the dilemma often is that these options are presented altogether - as if the lbs has to achieve all three states at once - and they are contrary to each other.

i think your post should be stickied and very very accessible to the newcomers.

it states really clearly that these are separate options that an lbs can pursue.

maybe i'm dense and slow on the uptake but i have never, in all the threads and posts i've read got the impression that these are different options to take. all the info and advice is sort of clumped up into a general lump.

as for what you say about expectations - i think you don't have them anymore when you are truly done. until then, one is just fighting having them and torturing oneself and getting down on oneself about them still being there. as long as we are db'ing of course we have expectations and hope that our sitches will change for the better and even for the best. otherwise, why would we continue to db for our relationships and not just do it for ourselves only.

i know the idea is that we should do it only for ourselves and if the was comes back then that's a bonus.

but in all honesty, how many here haven't at least started with the db principle solely to save their m's? of course, after a certain point the benefits of db'ing do change it so that the lbs starts to see how it is a long term thing no matter what.

in the end though, it is still about saving our marriages. and it doesn't seem emotionally feasible to me that if it can take up to 2 yrs or more for the changes to make a real difference to the was, that unless the lbs had enormous faith, expectation and hope, that they would be able to sustain staying in the db arena that long

otoh when i read through your post again, i find myself seeing it also from another perspective - that those 3 options could also be described as the 3 steps the lbs moves through over a long period of time. unless, like some, they jump to the 3rd step and skip the first 2.

i think that most people fall into the category of moving through these stages as it were.

but all in all, how you describe it really clears up alot of issues in terms of what stand one takes - you may choose one of the 3 or go through each one gradually

thanks accuray - we have missed your insights while you have been gone and i for one am happy to see you peeping in once in a while:)

zig

[Denver_2010]

I think that how the affair is handled while the WAS is in it and ' happy' is probably much different than if the WAS is ready to R again and feels remorse or at least the desire to try and save the M.

Absolutely true IMO. The bottom line is that you will not be able to reconcile your M until your WAS's feelings for OP have been resolved. You have no control over this part. You cannot expedite it or force it. In fact, I believe that the WAS themselves have very little control over it. I mean we are talking about feelings here. They can't just make their feelings go away any more than you can make your feelings for your S go away. It has to be resolved on its own. And that takes time... lots of it. And patience by you. The question is whether or not you want to be there when it is done. Then you can start thinking about reconciling.

I guess what I am trying to ask/ say is that it seems like their are different times during an affair at which we do can do certain actions...?

Definitely. I agree with Starsky that it is probably too early for you to do anything drastic. You need to spend some time just being the person that you want to be. Hopefully your H will see that and begin to hesitate with the decisions that he is making presently.

Like I said before, 1) spend a period of time showing WAS that your changes are real, that you are a person only a fool would leave, and that he/she does not have to fear the past; and 2) then take that option away.

I'm definitely not saying that this is the path that all of us should take. I'm telling you what worked for me.

[Denver_2010]

in the end though, it is still about saving our marriages. and it doesn't seem emotionally feasible to me that if it can take up to 2 yrs or more for the changes to make a real difference to the was, that unless the lbs had enormous faith, expectation and hope, that they would be able to sustain staying in the db arena that long

I actually agree with this. I got hit hard and often for having expectations, hope and belief that ultimately I would reconcile my M. But it was the only way that I was able to sustain for as long as I did. And I believe in positive imagery as a means to accomplishing one's goals. So yes, I do believe that you have to have faith and hope in order to keep going.

[zig]

oh star sky! - why is it that when i ask you questions you always come back in battle mode?

i didn't feel bothered whatsoever - it was more that i want to find out what the different approaches mean and how they could be used.

did you read accuray's post? for me it cleared up quite a few things, if one sees it from that perspective.

i suppose another question would be - for someone who is in my position or busting's for that matter - are you really advocating that we should suddenly walk up to our spouses and say what you suggest we should?


and then just deal with the very possible outcome of them filing and pursuing the D wholeheartedly?


and yes - you are probably right - i, like most others here are still shaky about what approach to really really take. maybe your being so sure - so completely sure, makes me feel unsettled because i am not so sure at all what the best thing to do is.

maybe you are right - it's time to walk away, to go date, to not worry how it looks to anyone else, but how do you count into the equation that i am not ready to do that? do i do those things acting as if and hope that i'll become that?

i think your question deserves alot of thought . here is a 180 i can do for myself - become more sure of where i am at and what i want and how to go about it.

but as accuray and many others point out, it's a process for many of us - and it must have been for you also - but you went through it alot faster than most people do. maybe you were in a really good healthy emotional place. maybe you didn't have so many things to work on for yourself. but many many of us here have had huge personal issues that contributed majorly towards the demise of our R's, and those take time to work through and resolve, not to mention the time it takes for the was to reacognize those very same and do the same for themselves

so instead of shooting only questions back at me, how about answering my genuine concerns and then asking more questions that can help me to inspect both myself and my options?

i do value your advice, but when you arbitrarily throw it out here making it sound like it is the only way to go, then please expect people to ask more about it

i genuinely want to hear your responses to my questions - they are not rhetoric at all

zig

[Denver_2010]

but as accuray and many others point out, it's a process for many of us -

Yes. That is the bottom line. It is a process and it is different for each of us. Every situation is unique. I have always said that one must take the DB principles and apply them to their unique situation. Take all of the advice that you get, follow what you think WILL WORK for you, and throw out the rest. That's what I did.

Starsky did it in 2 months, I did it in 18 months. I don't think Starsky is any tougher than me or prideful... sorry Starsky. I just think that his situation was different than mine. For example, I was a terrible H and BF in many ways to my W for 7 1/2 years. Not in every aspect, but in many. I caused my W hurt that I knew was not going to heal easily or quickly. For me, 2 months was simply not enough time.

Starsky was a pain in my A$s at times! But he helped me a lot even though I didn't always follow his advice. Hell, Jack3beans, 25MLC, Truegritter and many, many others all helped me a lot. But I didn't always follow their advice.

So MY advice is not to follow advice blindly. Do WHAT WORKS for you and your unique situation.

And in defense of Starsky he did say that "we are all different".