Denver, that was one of the best things I've read here in a long time. I think I'm behind you and will need to get to the point where I walk away before things can get better. It's such a painful, painful breaking point to get to, but absent that catalyst I think you can hang in a stalemate for a long time. Thank you so much for posting it!
Accuray
Married 18, Together 20, Now Divorced M: 48, W: 50, D: 18, S: 16, D: 12 Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 7/13/11 Start Reconcile: 8/15/11 Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 5/1/2014 (Divorced) In a New Relationship: 3/2015
This is me, this is 100% true in my case and I think, believe it should be true for almost everyone here.
I gave it back to my wife far too soon, it wasn't earned and it wasn't deserved.
Because I did that? I was a fool, and I was mad at her for what? Because I wanted to trust her and she didn't deserve it? Because SHE made me a fool...hehe...notice that? I made it her fault. When it was in fact mine. Wanting something badly doesn't make it happen.
I believe in Starsky's point...with an addition.
Trust must be earned by them BUT; Trust must be verified, by you.
And only when they want it and only when you can give it.
Experience is a brutal teacher, but you learn. My God, do you learn. - C.S. Lewis
Life is usually all about how you handle Plan B. - Jack3Beans
Listen without defending; Speak without offending - FaithinAK
Trust must be earned by them BUT; Trust must be verified, by you.
And only when they want it and only when you can give it.
BINGO.
Last nite, watching the Yankees-Tigers game, I was getting mad at Yankees lead-off batter Curtis Granderson for striking out so much. Then I realized, I should be mad at Yankees manager Joe Girardi, instead. Because Granderson is a wonderful ballplayer, who excels at many things. Leading off just doesn't happen to be one of them.
TPS Me: 44 H: 42 M14 T17 S10 D7 10/10 H moves out after death of his father-same month 21/04/12 H is 'DONE' 04/05/12 OW/PA confirmed (rumors from 2010) July '14 H ends affair May '15 H moves back home
Denver ( and others like LITB) it seems you got to a point where you were so done it didn't matter the outcome of the words or actions you gave to your W. You were ready to take the next step and go with it whichever way it turned out.
I think the problem for me, and maybe some others ( I don't know), is getting to that point. It's an in-between stage where we ( I) want to get to this point, but really are not yet there...even if our actions our showing it, our hearts are not.
And that seems to be a key point with many of you that have saved yourselves, and your families.
To be completely honest, I hesitate to be able to say something so definitive to H. He is already with another woman...
I have only started DB in mid May, and while I have learned so much and continue to do so, and am a full supporter of the programme and philosophies, I think that how the affair is handled while the WAS is in it and ' happy' is probably much different than if the WAS is ready to R again and feels remorse or at least the desire to try and save the M.
Right now my H is in the affair and ' happy' and determined that this is the best course of action. Regardless of our kids, our history, etc.
So I have been dark, NC... ( except with regards to the kids if necessary). He knows I don't want to end our M.
Anyway, I guess what I am trying to ask/ say is that it seems like their are different times during an affair at which we do can do certain actions...?
TPS Me: 44 H: 42 M14 T17 S10 D7 10/10 H moves out after death of his father-same month 21/04/12 H is 'DONE' 04/05/12 OW/PA confirmed (rumors from 2010) July '14 H ends affair May '15 H moves back home
You've now known about the affair for 4 months. In my opinion, it's far from too early to employ the tougher stance. We are all different, but I myself wasn't able to tolerate more than TWO months of my wife's unrepentant affair before I finally was DONE, began dating, and filed for divorce.
Within one month, she ended her affair and asked what it would take to come back to the marriage.
we're back to the same argument again, in a way - who does what in their sitch when.
starsky - you were ready - you were in a place where you could do that. most of us here are not - as MWD says - you can't say those types of things unless you are really ready for the negative outcome also.
you were ready for that right away in a sense weren't you?
so if one isn't ready - what are the alternatives, if they were to be put clearly and concisely for most to follow here
i think when you state it in those unequivocal terms as in your above post, it leaves a lot of us floundering as to what is the right thing to do then
there are so many mixed messages, and i understand that there is no clear cut solution that applies to everyone, so maybe the info should be presented with alternatives so that people can see that it is not so black and white.
the lbs's are in a fragile spot for a very long long time, before they can build the confidence and self-esteem back again in order to be in a position where other choices are as attractive. meanwhile - encouraging them to focus on getting to that place seems much more lucrative for them in the long run than saying that this extreme stance is what you should be heading for, don't you think? that is assuming that they are not able to be ok with either outcome yet
i don't want to challenge - just cannot understand what the point is to push that on anyone who is obviously not in a place to be able to do it yet
one thing that i have come to be grateful for during my sitch is the time factor. i can see now that if i hadn't had all this time i couldn't really have made these changes at the deep level that i have managed to until now. that has helped me still retain faith in some way. if h's A had resolved and he had turned around within a couple of months, i doubt i would be in a good place right now. that is something to think about in terms of the time factor for ourselves.
zig
me 46 H 38 M10yrs T 11 S10 BD ow 8/11 h filed 9/25/12
"if i could define enlightenment briefly, i would say it is the quiet acceptance of what is"
so if one isn't ready - what are the alternatives, if they were to be put clearly and concisely for most to follow here
From where I stand, the whole DR book is laid out as a "step 1, 2, 3..." which is IMHO the reason why, things like LRT, AtLRT, Ultimatum, etc... are all late in the book...
That the premise is first to stabalize ourselves, then to assess the sitch, consider our own responsibility for the sitch and fix that and work on ourselves... and THEN... try to attract the WAS back BECAUSE we are great people... and EVEN IN LIGHT OF AN A, we can R in a loving, non-aggressive... and then perhaps somewhat assertive way... etc, etc... leading up to Ultimatum and possibly the LBS filing D... if the WAS hasn't done so, first...
That's just the way it looks, to me...
I do concede that we are all unique and will approach the same problem, some the same ways, other in their own unique ways, to solve a problem we are all here to solve... that MWD wishes to help us solve with solutions she's tested in the field, that have worked for others...
I don't know if I've ever seen MWD pronounce or quote as a success, a LBS who deamonized their spouse in order to get to a frame of mind that they were willing to use the use the AtLRT or Ultimatum or similar "high risk" methods...
IMHO, if the LBS is there... they are pretty much the same people I meet on the street who are D and bitter and angry at their spouses for quite some time... some for a lifetime... I think psychologically, that's a dangerous road for a LBS to travel...
Even as she does to an agree, concede that for some people... that approach works...
