Interpretation of MWD and DR regarding infidelity

[~ kd ~]

Just thought I'd re-post this for possible discussion in this thread as there's many different "takes" on how to handle an A, as interpreted by members of what MWD has written.

So I'm just reposting an observation I made on another thread on this board here, for any who would like to provide thoughts on what MWD proposes when it comes to affairs.

The following are what I read and how I interpret it:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I just HAD to pull out my DR book again and review the chapter on infidelity. I notice the initial part of it deals more specifically on spouses who are in piecing.

Where it gets interesting for me is on p215 with a section titled "REREAD THE LAST-RESORT TECHNIQUE".

MWD talks about the normal feelings and behaviours such as anger, pleading, etc, she specifically states "... the very first thing yuo need to do is to promise yourself that you will stop chasing, pushing, pleading and pursuing."

On p216 MWD goes on to further write:
"I know that stopping the pursuit and interrogation is incredibly hard to do. In fact, if you decide to do it, it will be the hardest thing you've ever done in your life."

and

"[i]Since yuo can't approach your spouse with any information you discover, you are only hurting yourself by snooping. You need to figure out what is so darn appealing about this OP."

On p218, MWD begins talk in the Infidelity chapter, regarding the "After the last-resort technique", wherein she indicates:

"Tell your spouse that you love him/her enough that you are prepared to let go, then back off completely." and basically goes on to describe NC, unless there are kids and only talk about the kids when absolutely necessary.

IF this leads to the AP to ask for another change, THEN would come the request for proof that the OP is gone.

Anyhow, I just wanted to put out here what MWD specifically says in the DR book regarding the handling of an ongoing A, prior to any reconnection initiated by the AP.

[~ kd ~]

Oddly, in the online affair section MWD suggests that if you suspect, the confront. I would say this would be similar to an EA.

And basically, she says confront once and own your opinion and ask that it stop. If it does not stop or the AP denies, confront one more time...

and then try something different...

Again, not indicating that the LBS is to continue to badger the spouse, shame, blame, or coerce the sposue to end the A.

That's my take, anyhow.

[Starsky309]

I've also read where she says to install a keylogger if you suspect a spouse of an online affair, but then we're told her "never to snoop."

Confusing.


Starsky

[~ kd ~]

That sounds like an attempt to catch MWD at contradictory advice.

But, since keyloggers aren't available IRL, then it certainly is applicable to online affairs.

And, MWD does say gather evidence. She further goes on to say not to use that evidence to attempt to sway the AP.

So to me, the keyloggers or PIs or whatever are simply to gather information.

Towards the possible goal of learning what is appealing about the OP.

[~ kd ~]

Regarding snooping, on p216 MWD states, "You also have some investigative work to do. No, I don't mean snooping around to find out what is really going on. Since you can't approach your spouse with any information you discover, you are only hurting yourself by snooping. You need to figure out what is so darn appealing about this OP."

That is all I can find, regarding the term snooping.

MWD stresses the importance of forgiveness regarding an A.

"The lack of forgiveness imprisons you. It takes its toll on your physical and emotional health. It keeps you stuck in the deepest of relationship ruts. No matter how justified you feel about your point of view regarding your partner's insensitive behaviour, you are still miserable."... without forgiveness.

And on the AP not ending the affair:

"If you are considering trying to save your marriage when your partner is unwilling to end the affiar, you can count on receiving lots of advice from people who know about the situation. The will undoubtedly tell you to stop being a doormat and go on with your life...", etc...

And from my interpretation suggests that the choice is up to the BP and that "Fighting for your marriage under these circumstances takes courage, stamina, and blind determination. There will even be days when you question your sanity."

Yet, it is may be desired by the LBS to make sure they've done everything humanly possible... that's the choice of the LBS...

[chatterbug]

Its important to distinguish between snooping , spying , tracking and observations and confirming.

1. Key logger. Computer is used by the house. Then this is fine.
If the computer is the 100% owned by the other person or school or work then do not install a keylogger. This the difference between spying and confirming. You are also logging your actions as well.

2. VAR . Carrying a VAR on you that records your interactions with your spouse is legal. Placing a VAR in your car that you use is legal. Leaving one around your home in a room that you use is legal. Everything else is spying. And can cause you legal issues. ( This I would look up with your local laws )

3. Reviewing joint bank accounts , credit cards , phone bills. Legal.

4. P.I. Hiring a registered legal P.I. Legal.

5. Logging into their facebook , emails .... Not legal. If it is caught in the keylogger then you can read the logs. But you cannot take the info and log into their accounts.

If your spouse leaves and you give them a computer as a gift then do not use the keylogger any more. Turn it off. Same with the VAR in a car. You are no longer involved in the day to day activities so this is when it crosses over from tracking and confirming to spying.

And when you go dark.

You go dark.

Dark means no interaction. This includes your tracking and confirming. ( Naturally of course you are going to track joint assets and debts.... but one should not go dark without getting this loose end tied up for full protection )

[chatterbug]

I think that MWD does not give an absolute answer due to the laws around the world.

[~ kd ~]

That's interesting, chatter...

Do you think MWD could specifically state that she condones gathering information where ever and how ever legally possible within your jurisdiction?

There are many ways to publish texts while still protecting the author, publisher, and limiting liability. I'm certain her publisher is aware of these methods so that MWD could otherwise pen her true sentiments, if that were the case.

[~ kd ~]

Still, if one were to suggest that MWD may not give an absolute answer due to the laws around the world, if one takes a look specifically at the keylogger example, MWD specifically states:

"4. If you are convinced that nothing in your marriage will change unless and until your spouse is confronted with hard evidence about his/her behaviour, then you might consider purchasing a software product that takes "snapshots" of online activity for review later."

She very specifically suggests that as an option to any who feel that is the ONLY way. She also makes no disclaimer about the legal implications nor on what computer a person should or should not put the software. As printed, the publishers are well aware of the global distribution and the variations of laws within jurisdictions.

I suspect MWD is not at all vague about what she believes is and is not appropriate. I suspect that MWD's statement on snooping is very clear regarding gathering information and for what purpose.

MWD's two disclaimers on the above?

1) Be prepared for what you might find, it could be true and more than you were expecting or wanting to find.

2) The AP may not appreciate the intrusion of privacy and go so far as to use that as further justification, putting the BP back to square one.

Others may have differing opinions. The above is MWD's stated DB opinion.

[Accuray]

Great debate KD,

Have you read Dr. Harley's take on it on the marriage builders website? He offers some advice that is consistent and some that is contradictory. One bit that is contradictory is that he recommends exposing the affair to everyone -- the WAS' family, clergy in your church, your extended family, friends, etc. The theory is that killing the secrecy of the affair diminishes part of the allure, and the exposure helps it end more quickly. He says "most affairs end within six months of their seeing the light of day (being revealed to their family and friends)".

He recommends two plans for ending an ongoing affair -- Plan A is to offer to work with the WAS to repair the relationship and to treat the situation without recrimination or shaming. (There's more to it). Plan B is basically the LRT where you go dark until all contact with OP is suspended, but he says that Plan B is very risky because the wayward spouse may not return:

"The problem with Plan B is that the unfaithful spouse may not return, nor agree to the plan for recovery, even after the affair has ended. Separation in marriage is always risky because, "out of sight, out of mind." Unless plan A leaves the wayward spouse with the impression that returning home is an attractive choice, separation can become permanent. So before implementing plan B, you want to be sure that the last thing your spouse remembers about you is the care and thoughtfulness you offered in plan A. That way, the separation can help create, "absence makes the heart grow fonder." "

Food for thought, at the point that your spouse is involved with OP, you're in for a marathon, not a sprint, and every stride is up hill.

Accuray