Ultramarathon finish line or hallucinations?

[ncl]

I'm also concerned about the environment my S is in when he's over there, and I think I have a right to be concerned.

A valid concern indeed. You weren't speaking ill of om to your son, just asking what he does.

[labug]

From a practical standpoint, how do you enforce a morality clause?

[~ kd ~]

She's not giving me anything to work with - it's quite the opposite. If she shifts the momentum, my thoughts my change. However, I'm really not seeing a momentum shift.

Totally hear you on that, my friend.

We've been at this a long, long, long time. Some of our class has moved on ahead of us, some are now putting the pieces back together, and even some of the late bloomers are just making inroads...

You and me... ???

It's like we are invisible except when we talk, then we're just a pesky mosquito... lol...

Good to watch you make these steps. I've got a few more expenses to take care of and then my spare change will be going into the "file D" account.

I'm just working the "friends after D" angle, now. No need for us to be all "nose out of joint", if just for the sake of the kids.

Good on the morailty clause. Your son is old enough to know that you and your W were M when your W was caught by your S doing the funky chicken with OM. That's just not right... not at all like a kid catching their parents together...

[NTX_Dad]

From a practical standpoint, how do you enforce a morality clause?

To be honest, I am not sure. From what I've seen with another couple here, the guy happened to drive past the house late at night a couple of times and noted the OM's car at the house, so he jotted down the dates and times and gave the information to his attorney.

His attorney wrote a short letter to the XW's attorney noting the dates and times, and reminded her of the morality clause and threatened to file a motion of contempt the next time she was noticed violating the clause. The threat alone put a stop to it.

But if it would have continued, I am not sure what the next step would have been.

[labug]

Did it stop or did they just get cagier?

[jbnati]

Always good to see you around, KD.

Yes, we have been going about this for a long time. My W reminds me how long this is taking on a frequent basis.

I'm just working the "friends after D" angle, now. No need for us to be all "nose out of joint", if just for the sake of the kids.

I am currently working through this. I know at some point I will need to forgive my W, and I know with God's help, I can do it. However, it's going to be a long process. Right now, my W is not really treating me like a friend. I think for now we can at least be civil.

[jbnati]

Regarding the morality clause, I was told it's something that can be litigated. For me, I feel it is my responsibility to my S to blow the whistle on this and do what I can to protect my S. Enforcing it may be another story. Like NTX mentioned, the threat alone often times will curtail activity. If they were become more secretive about it, that still prevents the exposure to my S, and that's more important anyway.

I don't know if the fact my W got up and left abruptly was necessarily a bad thing. At least I know she heard me.

The fact that when she got up and left and just stayed there was a 180 for me. I didn't apologize to try to smooth it over nor did I get up and pursue her. I just let her leave and calmly got up and left after she was gone.

[adinva]

JB good job on the 180!

I'm learning difficult conversations sometimes happen over time. So the fact that she couldn't handle her emotions and left isn't necessarily a bad thing, and isn't necessarily the end of the conversation.

I believe sharing your views on whether your S should be exposed to overnight guests and their nocturnal activities was important from a coparenting perspective and though leaving the hard stuff to the lawyers is a comfortable idea, this is just one of many decisions for years to come that it would be good for you and S's mom to try to get on the same page about. You think it's bad, she thinks it's fine, keep talking. Would she be ok if S sees you ML with a new girlfriend, hypothetically? What if she's someone you just met, is that ok? Or someone you've dated a month or two? When is it ok? If not ok to her, then she needs to agree with you on rules about how you both behave around S. Some couples cant agree on that, but if you can, it's much better. If you have her buy-in, you don't have to get people to drive by her house at night to check on her. Start with coparenting, try to get agreement, and write it into the legal documents too.

[keep_going]

JB,

Re. exposing kids to overnight guests... Boy, this is a tough one and I am also in the thick of it with my H.

My sitch is a bit diff. because our kids are so young (D4, D3 and S1).

H started exposing OW as "a friend" a year ago. Even though he swears they are not affectionate in front of them, both my daughters have been very confused by it. At different times they have said things like:.
OW is part of the family, H and OW love each other, OW's kids don't have a dad or that H is OW's kids dad, etc.

Now he wants to expose them to overnight stays and to have OW attend kids' activities, so I would now have to see her as well!

I have asked for neither to happen until our D is finalized but he has categorically refused. He has not filed for D yet, and it will be at least a year before it's finalized (according to attorneys). Last time we talked about it was at co-parenting session last week and ran out of time before discussing it with counselor.

I see both sides of the argument.
I believe it's morally wrong and disrespectful of marriage as an institution and I want to set an example for my kids that I stand for my beliefs. H doesn't see anything wrong as he thinks our M has been dead for a long time anyways. I know I will not change his mind.

I want to protect my kids from more confusion re. our sitch. H doesn't believe they are confused...

I have been adviced both here and outside the boards to just let it go. I live in California and my L has said that a judge would most likely not even consider the issue as relevant, so I should just drop it. So it's not like I can leave it to my L to battle it out for me.

And it has been quite painful every time H and I have discussed it. So I can see how it will probably be healthier for me in the long run to just let it go. It's going to happen anyways sooner or later and I just don't want to create more ill-feelings between us. H clearly sees it as me trying to control him and me just acting out of jealousy.

And as Labug asks, realistically, how enforceable is it anyways even if it gets agreed upon in a D settlement?

This is currently the only remaining thorny issue I have with H re. custody, but it has been brutal for me emotionally.

I think that at this point, I have stated my POV and disagreement and it's there for the record. Whatever H does, I cannot control it.

I wish you the best on this. I know how difficult all of this is.

[keep_going]

JB,

One thing I forgot to mention - your kids are older and at the end of the day, whatever your W does will end up affecting her R with them. They will make up their own minds about this anyways. You cannot do anything about it.

You know where you stand on the issue and maybe some day you will be able to express how you feel to your kids or maybe you won't (and should not?). IDK, but I believe that kids are smart. Even if you don't express it outwardly, they will sooner or later see how things happened and how each of you felt and behaved about this whole issue.

Best of luck.