I get that. My question is why come here? There are only 2 options for you. 1) Work on making the marriage happier for you (and hopefully her) OR 2) NOT [b]
So I need to do one of those things instead of coming here? I guess I was under the false impression that I could multitask. You know, like chew gum and walk at the same time. ;-)
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But whenever you are asked THAT question - your reply is something along the lines...
If every time I'm asked the question, should I come up with a different answer? Or not answer it because I know some readers, like you, already know the answer? ;-)
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But here you are, on DB's site again, talking about how hideously low your w's sex drive is.
Well, consider that this is one of my better options! ;-)
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And I don't know what to tell you - b/c this is a solution based site. We want solutions, not commiseration, at least not beyond a certain point.
Oh, OK, I guess you're telling me I need to stop posting here. Would it be OK if I keep reading the site without posting? Would that bother anybody?
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What can we SAY to solve your problem when you say it is NOT solvable?
I didn't say it wasn't solvable. Everything I've tried so far hasn't had much effect. Are you saying you only want people posting here who've solved their problem? Hey, I know I'm being difficult. ;-)
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Who gave me sex "freely"? My wife, when we first met.
when you FIRST MET or first married? IF it's in marriage, that's not quite the same. Truly, No offense intended.
I'd say both before and just after we got married. The wedding was an event in the middle of it all. We weren't the American traditional Republican Christian no-sex before marriage types. So the wedding itself was not this big game changer some people expect it to be. Not quite sure why you seem to imply it's even relevant. I have some friends who are as good as married, but never married.
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Assuming you are right in all your predictions about your wife's choices then Daddy has a point. She is NOT willing to put your needs ahead of, or even with, yours. No one here thinks that's okay.
What will you do about that?
Well, given your premise, the only thing I can do is have sex with another woman, or stay celibate.
One thing that makes the hill steeper for me is that I find it difficult to contemplate accepting a solution where the spouse has sex only out of a sense of duty. Or is that unrealistic? Am I bitterly clinging to a youthfully idealistic notion that two people should mutually enjoy sex? On the one hand, I hear constantly in the media and advice columns that women need their orgasms, which they presumably enjoy. And then on sites like these, I'm led to believe that one should be happy with a woman who only does it out of a sense of duty and love, which presumably involves no orgasms for her at all -- more like "let's get this over with so I can get back to whatever I was doing before". So which is it?
I think the point we have hit the nail on the head with. Is perhaps many of the "LD" people are simply unable or unwilling to put their "HD" partners needs ahead of or even EQUAL to that of their own...
It sets up an unresolvable mental block. Perhaps a high percentage of "LD" is psychological... Requiring deep therapy.
I don't think I'm helping you. You avoid the hard questions with more of your own.
If you are "Clinging" to a vision of a sex life with your wife that is not possible, as you seem to suggest, repeatedly, b/c you have "tried everything" and you get annoyed when we suggest another option or behavioral approach or tactic or romantic idea...
then what's to say? "Good luck"?
If you dislike the idea of woman making love to her h b/c she loves him...and NOT because she desires him ---but your wife has made it clear she does NOT desire you in that way...
I suppose my answer to one of your many questions is YES I think you are being unrealistic at this point in time, after years of not making love, to assume it'll completely change, absent a miracle.
I know I'm not alone in agreeing to ml with my b/c I love him even though I'm not in the mood and even if I don't think I'll fully be satisfied in that "interlude"
b/c maybe my hormones are way off that morning, or maybe I'm preoccupied w/work, or maybe I'm in grief, but i want the closeness...perhaps even more then,
or maybe I just care about HIS needs...I would hope HE does not get bogged down by his need for MY needs to always be met...sheesh...
Stop deflecting from the question.
What is it you want to DO about your situation?
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
Some of us wher alluding to the fact that NO amount of romantic guestures, being sexxy and attractive, thoughtfulness, love languages will be enough to make certain LD partners want to be sexually active.
Some people have it set in their mind that they just are not going to do it, and there is nothing you can do about it. You cannot convince them to be reasonable, to put someone elses needs above their own. Sometimes it is a physical and hormonal issue that makes them not WANT or not able to FEEL like it, other times it is psychological.
We have to construe that some cases it was the HD partners "fault", and many times it was NOT the HD partners "fault". That it may well be some buried evil intention ( for example the case of the woman who married the guy for the green card. And the other case the man who married her just because she was financially well off... ) that there never was love or feeling for the person in the first place. That it was a trick.
We pretty much have boiled this down to something very simple.
After a certain amount of time, even if you do not WANT to do something or don't feel it. What about your partner? Does it really make sense to go even one month without providing intimacy, or even simple physical affection to your partner.
The only case I can see not, even in a "LD" situation is if the "LD" partner was molested, raped or had a traumatic incident create the condition. In this case, they would take therapy to get over it.
I wish you all the best. But at some point to remain in certain situations, you will always be in a "martyr" position and it is IMPOSSIBLE to be in another position due to the way the other person looks at you.
OK, you make some good points. I don't have a good perspective from my situation. You're taking my suggestions and applying them as if I were saying them to you. I think I'd feel very differently if a woman really wanted to make it work, even if she couldn't desire me. I was thinking more of the scenario I'm familiar with, where I'd have to be almost unrealistically nice and helpful for a few days, and THEN I'd have to beg, insist, and pressure before anything would happen. And then, as she has told me, she would do some very minimal sexual things "out of a sense of guilt". Which was not really insipiring. That's really what I'm talking about. You're not describing your behavior as anything like that, so don't apply my complaints to anyone like yourself!
What do I want to do about my situation? I want to have my cake and eat it too. So I wouldn't mind having multiple wives, or mistresses (since that's legal), all living with me at the same time. Of course, that raises another set of potential problems, unless I could get everyone to be cool with it.
At least that way, chances are better that at least someone will be interested in sex.
Some of us wher alluding to the fact that NO amount of romantic guestures, being sexxy and attractive, thoughtfulness, love languages will be enough to make certain LD partners want to be sexually active.
I didn't say you are "alluding to" it, you guys have outright said it. And I agree that it's true in SOME cases. I don't think it's very common that the man has nothing to do with his w's low sex drive, and surely he ought to rule that out as well as he can.
I'm saying what are you going to DO about that? Venting is only so helpful b/c it CAN lead to being stuck in a rut of whining and nagging, which I recognize in myself on other issues.
Some people have it set in their mind that they just are not going to do it, and there is nothing you can do about it. You cannot convince them to be reasonable, to put someone elses needs above their own. Sometimes it is a physical and hormonal issue that makes them not WANT or not able to FEEL like it, other times it is psychological.
We have to construe that some cases it was the HD partners "fault", and many times it was NOT the HD partners "fault". That it may well be some buried evil intention ( for example the case of the woman who married the guy for the green card. And the other case the man who married her just because she was financially well off... ) that there never was love or feeling for the person in the first place. That it was a trick. not to quibble but that's^^ just fraud. It's not "low sex drive", per se. I thought we were discussing sexless marriages, or marriages with too little sex for one of the partners, on a chronic basis, and NOT for a physical reason. Correct?
We pretty much have boiled this down to something very simple.
After a certain amount of time, even if you do not WANT to do something or don't feel it. What about your partner? Does it really make sense to go even one month without providing intimacy, or even simple physical affection to your partner. I thought that's^^^ what I boiled that down to. I have done what A LOT of women (and men I bet) have done. Make love b/c I want to, b/c I love my h, or b/c he wants to and his needs matter enough to me to say yes, even when I don't really "feel like it". In my mind, and in many of my close friends', you have to have a pretty decent reason to say no. And decent reasons are usually obvious..."I've been vomitting all day, sorry" and most h's don't ask at times like that. Make sense?
you guys claim, vigorously, that in your cases you are in a situation that is untenable and that is unlikely to change. IF SSMs assessments are accurate, then his wife is NOT being loving enough to him in a way that means a lot to him. Period.
MY QUESTION is, what are you going to DO about it?
The only case I can see not, even in a "LD" situation is if the "LD" partner was molested, raped or had a traumatic incident create the condition. In this case, they would take therapy to get over it.
I wish you all the best. But at some point to remain in certain situations, you will always be in a "martyr" position and it is IMPOSSIBLE to be in another position due to the way the other person looks at you.
I don't know who you mean or what you are saying here. Please explain.
Are you a martyr or your wife is or what?
Do you want to be?
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
OK, you make some good points. I don't have a good perspective from my situation. You're taking my suggestions and applying them as if I were saying them to you. I think I'd feel very differently if a woman really wanted to make it work, even if she couldn't desire me. I was thinking more of the scenario I'm familiar with, where I'd have to be almost unrealistically nice and helpful for a few days, and THEN I'd have to beg, insist, and pressure before anything would happen. And then, as she has told me, she would do some very minimal sexual things "out of a sense of guilt". Which was not really insipiring. That's really what I'm talking about. You're not describing your behavior as anything like that, so don't apply my complaints to anyone like yourself!
What do I want to do about my situation? I want to have my cake and eat it too. So I wouldn't mind having multiple wives, or mistresses (since that's legal), all living with me at the same time. Of course, that raises another set of potential problems, unless I could get everyone to be cool with it.
At least that way, chances are better that at least someone will be interested in sex.
okay so you are not answering the question...b/c I am assuming this is a joke, right?
So, what does it mean that you won't answer the question....what are you going to do about this?
What are your options? B/C if the only option for you is staying married, then fine, so be it.
But say that instead of presenting this as a problem you want to solve. Say "I've accepted this will never change but I won't do anything about it".
OR say, "I want it to change but don't know how"
or say "I want it to change but know that it won't so I have to make a scary decision to either live without sex the rest of my life, or divorce my wife'
or have an affair"----which you said you would not do, if I'm not mistaken.
But if having an affair is something you want to do, but you said you would NOT need or seek our approval for it here, THEN AGAIN, I'd ask, why come here?
See, I think at some level you want an affair and you want us to say "we get it".
But for the most part, MOST, not all but most, HERE, will say
"divorce her first, and don't be an adulterer."
But maybe you do want your cake and eat it too?
All I know for sure with you SSM, is you deflect and deny or joke about the answer to that question. You don't just answer it.
Maybe you don't know what you want to do, or would be willing to do, to change your situation. IF SO, just say that. NO biggie.
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
I did answer the question. The problem is that anything I want can be construed as a joke because "fat chance -- it's not going to happen". If what I wanted could easily happen, I wouldn't be posting here. I'd be somewhere else grinning from ear to ear.
Some of us wher alluding to the fact that NO amount of romantic guestures, being sexxy and attractive, thoughtfulness, love languages will be enough to make certain LD partners want to be sexually active.
I didn't say you are "alluding to" it, you guys have outright said it. And I agree that it's true in SOME cases. I don't think it's very common that the man has nothing to do with his w's low sex drive, and surely he ought to rule that out as well as he can.
I'm saying what are you going to DO about that? Venting is only so helpful b/c it CAN lead to being stuck in a rut of whining and nagging, which I recognize in myself on other issues.
Some people have it set in their mind that they just are not going to do it, and there is nothing you can do about it. You cannot convince them to be reasonable, to put someone elses needs above their own. Sometimes it is a physical and hormonal issue that makes them not WANT or not able to FEEL like it, other times it is psychological.
We have to construe that some cases it was the HD partners "fault", and many times it was NOT the HD partners "fault". That it may well be some buried evil intention ( for example the case of the woman who married the guy for the green card. And the other case the man who married her just because she was financially well off... ) that there never was love or feeling for the person in the first place. That it was a trick. not to quibble but that's^^ just fraud. It's not "low sex drive", per se. I thought we were discussing sexless marriages, or marriages with too little sex for one of the partners, on a chronic basis, and NOT for a physical reason. Correct?
We pretty much have boiled this down to something very simple.
After a certain amount of time, even if you do not WANT to do something or don't feel it. What about your partner? Does it really make sense to go even one month without providing intimacy, or even simple physical affection to your partner. I thought that's^^^ what I boiled that down to. I have done what A LOT of women (and men I bet) have done. Make love b/c I want to, b/c I love my h, or b/c he wants to and his needs matter enough to me to say yes, even when I don't really "feel like it". In my mind, and in many of my close friends', you have to have a pretty decent reason to say no. And decent reasons are usually obvious..."I've been vomitting all day, sorry" and most h's don't ask at times like that. Make sense?
you guys claim, vigorously, that in your cases you are in a situation that is untenable and that is unlikely to change. IF SSMs assessments are accurate, then his wife is NOT being loving enough to him in a way that means a lot to him. Period.
MY QUESTION is, what are you going to DO about it?
The only case I can see not, even in a "LD" situation is if the "LD" partner was molested, raped or had a traumatic incident create the condition. In this case, they would take therapy to get over it.
I wish you all the best. But at some point to remain in certain situations, you will always be in a "martyr" position and it is IMPOSSIBLE to be in another position due to the way the other person looks at you.
I don't know who you mean or what you are saying here. Please explain.
Are you a martyr or your wife is or what?
Do you want to be?
25yearsmlc,
I'm done with the situation that put me in DB-land in the first place. I will never again be with someone who is not thinking about me and my needs unless it is for a short period of time and I'm on the way out.
I learned a lot from my situation. I wish I learned it much earlier in life when the costs where not as high.
I'm now alot more choosy of who I will partner with but it's for a very good reason.
OK, you make some good points. I don't have a good perspective from my situation. You're taking my suggestions and applying them as if I were saying them to you. I think I'd feel very differently if a woman really wanted to make it work, even if she couldn't desire me. I was thinking more of the scenario I'm familiar with, where I'd have to be almost unrealistically nice and helpful for a few days, and THEN I'd have to beg, insist, and pressure before anything would happen. And then, as she has told me, she would do some very minimal sexual things "out of a sense of guilt". Which was not really insipiring. That's really what I'm talking about. You're not describing your behavior as anything like that, so don't apply my complaints to anyone like yourself!
What do I want to do about my situation? I want to have my cake and eat it too. So I wouldn't mind having multiple wives, or mistresses (since that's legal), all living with me at the same time. Of course, that raises another set of potential problems, unless I could get everyone to be cool with it.
At least that way, chances are better that at least someone will be interested in sex.
okay so you are not answering the question...b/c I am assuming this is a joke, right?
So, what does it mean that you won't answer the question....what are you going to do about this?
What are your options? B/C if the only option for you is staying married, then fine, so be it.
But say that instead of presenting this as a problem you want to solve. Say "I've accepted this will never change but I won't do anything about it".
OR say, "I want it to change but don't know how"
or say "I want it to change but know that it won't so I have to make a scary decision to either live without sex the rest of my life, or divorce my wife'
or have an affair"----which you said you would not do, if I'm not mistaken.
But if having an affair is something you want to do, but you said you would NOT need or seek our approval for it here, THEN AGAIN, I'd ask, why come here?
See, I think at some level you want an affair and you want us to say "we get it".
But for the most part, MOST, not all but most, HERE, will say
"divorce her first, and don't be an adulterer."
But maybe you do want your cake and eat it too?
All I know for sure with you SSM, is you deflect and deny or joke about the answer to that question. You don't just answer it.
Maybe you don't know what you want to do, or would be willing to do, to change your situation. IF SO, just say that. NO biggie.
Why have an affair? Affair land is not a good thing and can put you into trouble in other area's of your life because you are pushing it.
My guesstimation is there are many other area's of the marriage which have failed. I don't think when you look at it instrospectively that you will determine you are being too negative. You are seeing it for what it is.
The relationship you had with the wife may just be over and she is willing to do nothing about it. It's even possible her needs are truly met elsewhere, and you will be stonewalled, lied to, told your crazy, etc.
You waited this long. Whats another 6 months to a year to give the marriage a chance to really work. If she doesn't want to save it, let it go.
Or spend the rest of your life complaining about it... It's no way to live and one thing that makes my decisions easy is I look into the future.
"Would I be happy with myself 20 years from now looking back, knowing what the outcome would be?"
