I've known women like the one you envied, and felt their pain--many feel lonely and insecure after a time because people only want them for their perfect "packaging," and don't care to connect with the human being inside.
Most of the dissatisfactions, straw man arguments and negative opinions around sexual relations which you express seem like the sorts of obsessions that people who are happy with their own lives couldn't be bothered to waste their energy on. As 25 has several times asked, what are you looking for here? So many of your posts seem centred on rationalizing that nothing will change or improve, for anyone.
GreenBlue,
Okay, entire seminars on how to pick up women--that does seem a little creepy. On the other hand, books on how to really communicate with the other sex--not so bad.
"I can tell she loves being around the coy, confident, devious little flirt I am now." That's wonderful, and it sounds as if you really enjoy being that sexy guy--which should serve you well whether you "close the deal" or not.
Cyrena, I think you're right about the woman who's attention I envied. I put my friendship with her first, and I didn't mind (or decided I wouldn't mind) that she dated other guys. The result was the she would call me more often for a date than I would call her. Other guys couldn't understand how I "pulled that off".
That's pretty much how I first started with my wife too. She was a hot item on campus and was tired of all the guys checking her out even when they were talking to her.
My advice for guys who are deathly afraid of being in the "friend zone" is they've got it completely backwards. You should totally enjoy being in the friend zone because women are, in my opinion anyway, generally more fun as friends than men. And if you're flirty, humorous and honest, before you know it some of those friend zones will turn into something more.
My only problem right now is I'm in the "friend zone" with my wife!
As for my straw men, negative opinions and other obsessions, I've said so much I'm not sure what exactly you might be talking about, though I'm sure I'd agree with some of what you mean. What am I doing here? Well, how about I just need to talk and have my feelings validated? As a woman, is that hard for you to understand? ;-) I know that if good therapists haven't been able to solve the problem in my marriage, then it's unlikely that anybody on this forum will have a magical answer. But does that mean I should just be quiet and keep it all in? You don't have to read my posts if you don't want to!
Rationalizing? Maybe. But I'm also dealing with reality, which hasn't changed in spite of many things I've tried. But I haven't given up yet.
Ssmguy I think there is a lot of truth in your earlier comment about getting friend zoned. Living in a sexless marriage is a lot like getting friend zoned, you are used for emotional support, but not meant to get sex.
That's saved for the sexy alpha males
Not saying that's necessarily what is going on in her mind. Although it does validate my earlier comment about having the ability to make sparks fly. If you couldn't get her sparks to fly when you first met, it's reasonable to say that you wouldn't be able to a few years down the line. That is unless you change your tactics and approach to getting sex.
That's why I'm trying to relearn how to seduce, so that I can recapture the magic I have clearly forgotten.
Greenblue90, my wife's sparks were flying before we married. I would never have married her otherwise.
I think you're being too hard on yourself. Seduction isn't all your responsibility, or the man's in general. There are many marriages where the tables are turned.
Ssmguy You're right in that it's a two way street, but when the flame is gone, someone has to light the pilot light, and I know my W won't do it. If I give up it'll be gone for sure, and I'm not ready to give up on that.
That's why I'm trying to relearn how to seduce, so that I can recapture the magic I have clearly forgotten.
I like that! In my relationship we ended up being so focused on the act that the seduction was lost and the act became mechanical and unappealing for me. I hope you are also leaving room for your partner to seduce you.
[quote=Frustrated2]In my relationship we ended up being so focused on the act that the seduction was lost and the act became mechanical and unappealing for me.[quote]
My wife never let me have enough sex with her for it to ever get mechanical or unappealing. Consider yourself spoiled.
Nothing posted in this part of the forum for over a month. What happened? Did some mysterious cosmic force cause low-desire people to jump on their spouses? If so, the force missed my wife entirely.
I accept your upgrade of Cassanova's image. But does it really matter exactly how Cassanova turned on women? Does it make it more "OK" because his methods seem more "socially redeeming"? It still invites the question about the reversed situation. I can't imagine any woman would allow her man's ED to be blamed on her for any reason. ironic, b/c every woman I know who has a h with ED, began by first blaming herself or assuming he wanted someone else more. Only repeated assurances and physical/medical explanations sufficed to reassure the wives. Anecdotal, but true.
I'm a bit shocked you cannot imagine that scenario when I cannot imagine it not happening, at least for awhile.
It gets into this unfavorable comparison I sometimes encounter about what turns on the typical man vs. typical woman. The hidden presumption in some of the discussions is that a woman's needs are socially redeeming -- better communication, talk, caring, closeness, helpfulness, etc. By contrast, what the stereotypical man needs to be turned on is less worthy -- attractive figure, revealing clothes, a direct grab for sexual organs, dirty talk, explicit visuals, etc.
Well I guess I do see feeling close and intimate as being more socially redeeming or "better" than directly grabbing sex organs, but as a woman I'm sure you will say I'm biased and maybe I am.
But I choose to think you meant something more along the lines of "how we get turned on SO THAT we can feel close", should not matter,
in which case I'd agree & say, to each his own.
But it goes back to GB's question which is, if you are not going to get sex in this marriage, are you accepting that or not?
IF NOT, then what?
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
