Ah, i left out a very important part of my (b). In changing myself - my perspective, my reactions, my actions and my feelings, it turns out he's not a rotten jerk at all. He's more human than I thought, and sometimes in great pain that I didn't know about, and a lot easier to get along with because I'm not fighting him tooth and nail oppositionally to protect my sense of boundaries.
That is not an act.
I've worked toward it since September, and I don't regret it for a minute. I'd do it longer. Not saying forever, but I have improved myself and I'm a more thoughtful and more empathetic person, and I see there's more I can do to improve. So while I focus on that I'm no longer noticing the things that he did that annoyed me, and no longer taking personally the things I really had worked myself up over.
I don't necessarily have the choice about whether or when we get divorced, but either way I have a whole new attitude and I get different results.
So CV, that's why I kept telling you to focus more on yourself, build your own foundation. Focus less on his shortcomings, take them less personally. Work on you. You don't want to leave him yet, so why not make things nicer while you're there? For YOU.
Adinva 51, S20, S18 M24 total 6/15/11-12/1/12 From IDLY to H moving out 9/15/15-3/7/17 From negotiating SA to final D at age 50 5/8/17-now: New relationship with an old friend __ Happiness is a warm puppy.
So CV, that's why I kept telling you to focus more on yourself, build your own foundation. Focus less on his shortcomings, take them less personally. Work on you. You don't want to leave him yet, so why not make things nicer while you're there? For YOU.
I feel like I'm circling back around to the beginning of my posts, maybe for the second time around. The question is what would that look like? For me it's sleeping in the other bedroom; for H, it's the same bed. For me, it's not sitting next to him at dinner or not even going out to dinner with him; for him, it's going, sitting next to him, and letting him eat off my plate. For me, it's being able to make my own decisions about things; for him, it's me doing exactly what he wants regardless of my own feelings.
I can either invest in me or invest in us. There doesn't seem to be a cross-over.
I believe the path there lies in establishing and enforcing your boundaries, while at the same time being polite, friendly, and nice to be around.
Being nice to H is not the same as giving in to things you don't like. I believe that's where you start -- remove the criticism and judgement, provide encouragement and support -- while at the same time NOT allowing your boundaries to be violated.
Will that make H totally happy? No -- at least not initially. Will that make H happier? I would bet it will -- although to your point when he gets a little, he'll probably instantly want more -- his "taker" will emerge and start trying to make a land grab. Instead of retreating, stay where you are but maintain your boundaries. If you're the little girl and you decide you're going to keep 5 of the best and newest toys for yourself, you just do it. If he can't be happy with the 15 toys you left for him, you can't own that, that's his cross to bear. If he tries to take one of your toys, you make it very clear he can't have it -- you don't give in even a little bit, and each time he tries, you reinforce it again and again.
Over time, if you're consistently avoiding active hurts (criticism, scolding, shaming, cold shoulder treatment), he begins to feel safer, and maybe doesn't need to grab for all the toys to try to make himself feel good. Eventually maybe he offers one up.
I think that's where the road lies.
Accuray
Married 18, Together 20, Now Divorced M: 48, W: 50, D: 18, S: 16, D: 12 Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 7/13/11 Start Reconcile: 8/15/11 Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 5/1/2014 (Divorced) In a New Relationship: 3/2015
[quote=Accuray]Adinva, DB says that you can change your *relationship* by changing yourself. That's different than changing the other person, but maybe the distinction isn't that meaningful because it's the relationship that's probably more important.[/quote
Unfortunately, CV appears to be interested in changing her H...
As is apparent by many, CV continues to circle around to these "key issues" that seems to be getting her no where. When things are put out there as suggestions, there are reasons CV mentions why she will not do them...
And IMHO, I don't think that boundaries are an issue for CV. I get a feeling she is a very strong woman who has no problems with standing up for what she believes in...
And again IMHO, I think she is so angry (still) and resentful that her H isn't doing what she wants, that she absolutely will not attempt a softer approach...
and the problem remains... nothing will change in the M unless CV actually DOES something...
What we don't know is CV's H's perspective. I'm convinced that he would have a differing perspective of what is wrong in the M.
What we also may not be fully aware of is what CV thinks SHE did wrong in the M.
From what CV writes, it appears that her H is trying from time to time, but we get CV's perspective of how he is doing that to try to manipulate her rather than what might actually be an honest attempt by her H to try to work out the problems.
CV's fear shows up as anger and resentment... what might actually be her fear that the M will actually be reconciled, meaning that her current perspective that her H is a bad person will have to be rethought. How could it be possible that her H actually is a good man with a couple things that he needs to work out, rather than the her stated belief that her H is really a self centred man who really doesn't care about her.
She still appears to be currently wanting to believe that the M will not be reconciled and therefore her own introspection is unnecessary. Her H will not be the person she wants to be with so she does not need to look at how she was in the M and how she can work on herself.
Her H will not be the person she wants to be with so she does not need to look at how she was in the M and how she can work on herself.
And by that, I mean outside of the M.
CV claims to be a great person. I'm sure she is.
That being the case, how is she a great person outside the M and yet can't seem to be that great person INSIDE the M?
It MUST be something to do with her H? (THAT is sarcasm)
CV is quite possibly able to be a great person outside the M because she can remove herself from the company of people who rub her the wrong way.
Rather than removing her H from her life because he rubs her the wrong way, she can remain a victim by staying in the M and continuing to focus on how he's a bad person.
Rather than making a tough choice and doing...
Either do the introspective work and see and fix/resolve her own issues...
or removing her H from her life and stop complaining about him...
So CV, that's why I kept telling you to focus more on yourself, build your own foundation. Focus less on his shortcomings, take them less personally. Work on you. You don't want to leave him yet, so why not make things nicer while you're there? For YOU.
I feel like I'm circling back around to the beginning of my posts, maybe for the second time around. The question is what would that look like? For me it's sleeping in the other bedroom; for H, it's the same bed. For me, it's not sitting next to him at dinner or not even going out to dinner with him; for him, it's going, sitting next to him, and letting him eat off my plate. For me, it's being able to make my own decisions about things; for him, it's me doing exactly what he wants regardless of my own feelings.
what being a better you, a better wife for your h, means is not what you suggested at all. Avoiding what you cannot tolerate, because you cannot tolerate much of anything about him, is not the "work on yourself to make it a better marriage, for you" that i meant. My "for you" was misinterpreted. I didnt mean make it more comfortable for yourself, which is what your examples were. I meant do this hard, uncomfortable, painful work, for the benefit of your self. Just learn to be compassionate because it is beautiful to be compassionate. Just stop taking things personally because you can learn to stop (i believe you can). Just learn to ml with him once in a while to feel good together and not see him as taking yet more from you. Change your perspective, change your thoughts, change your feelings. Thats what it looks like.
I had suggested that if you dont think he deserves it, do it anyway just to be the wife you want to be, just to be a more enlightened person than you were, just because what you practice is what you become. And youre practicing hate disgust dehumanization of him ( what you accuse him of doing to you).
He may not deserve you, but you do. Improve yourself from the inside, because it will be good for you and it might make your narriage better.
As i pointed out it did make mine better without changing what h was doing right away there was an immediate change in how i decided to perceive his actions. Thus, i find you unattractive became "i am in so much pain and confusion that i will say anything just so i can get you on board and end this quickly, dont take it personally." is that really what he meant? Who cares? I feel better thinking he doesnt really think im a dogface; hes just not in his right mind. Snide remarks i used to take personally i now think of as evidence of some anxiety i can help alleviate. And since i'm not engaging, we are not butting heads so much and so our home is more pleasant. I didnt change him, i changed how i think about him.
Whether you stay with bim for the long haul or wind up with someone else, stop practicing meanspiritedness, scorekeeping, and outrage. This is work to do on you, regardless of what he does or notices.
So again i say work on you, it is way too early to expect any change in him, realistically. Its not about whats fair, its about who you are.
Your notes about h make you sound mean and unreasonable, sick and tired, bitter and loveless. Yet you are here. Who are you and who do you want to be?
Does that paint a clearer picture? Your closing sentence, below, i say if you invest in yourself meaningfully, internally, it is ALL crossover, and there is no downside.
Quote:
I can either invest in me or invest in us. There doesn't seem to be a cross-over.
Adinva 51, S20, S18 M24 total 6/15/11-12/1/12 From IDLY to H moving out 9/15/15-3/7/17 From negotiating SA to final D at age 50 5/8/17-now: New relationship with an old friend __ Happiness is a warm puppy.
