One question I have for you: Do you feel you're LD "overall", or LD in the context of your marriage? i.e. do you feel your desire would be higher with a different man?
I have always been somewhat shy and uncomfortable being sexual but I honestly believe that I could have blossomed if the relationship had been different, if my husband had been patient and supportive and helped me build self confidence. I did desire sex with him early in our relationship but it faded over time as sex felt disconnected (it didn't feel like we were sharing an experience, it felt like he was very focused on the feelings that an orgasm gave him) and I felt disappointed. There was also a time when I tried something similar to the "just do it" where I could agree to sex and then actually find myself having a positive physical reaction but even that faded with the frustration of the demand for sex without the attention to the sexual relationship. It felt like sex became a chore to pacify this needy, greedy person in my life.
I actually hesitate to share the details of my experience with you because I sense that you are a very different type of person than my husband, but in case there are some general similarities, that perhaps you wife wanted to please you but didn't feel good about doing what she believed you wanted, then maybe it is helpful.
I appreciate it. Have you discussed how you feel with him? That's a lot of resentment to carry for a long time. Telling a man you're not happy with him sexually is obviously a difficult discussion, but if you set it up right and came into it with the goal to make things better for both of you maybe its worth having. Do you feel the same way about other aspects of your marriage? Do you feel its all about him? Do you play a role in creating that dynamic? I'm sorry to hear about your unhappiness.
For W's part, I don't believe that my selfishness is an issue because I've always wanted and sought to provide a shared experience. W's parents were not very nurturing, they're response to her sadness as a child would have been to either humor her or tell her to get over it. I believe the defense she has developed is to closely guard her emotions. In addition, she convinced herself in all her relationships that her feelings don't matter. She tries to live that way, and then resents the position she's in. I've heard this sentiment from a few women on this board who have come to feel this way.
I am definitely challenged in terms of how to deal with it because its not something she's interested in changing and that makes it hard.
Accuray
Married 18, Together 20, Now Divorced M: 48, W: 50, D: 18, S: 16, D: 12 Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 7/13/11 Start Reconcile: 8/15/11 Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 5/1/2014 (Divorced) In a New Relationship: 3/2015
Accuray, I came back to your thread today with the feeling that I mis-spoke when I said "perhaps your wife wanted to please you but..."
You seem to have a good sense of what your wife is like and as you say above, you are more interested in figuring out how to deal with it. This is definitely hard and full of psychology. Obviously you are not happy with the status quo, but if you push too hard it will reinforce her feelings of the need to guard or protect herself. Since you seem to be committed to staying in the relationship my advice would be to keep working on it, be willing to move slowly and be supportive; build on the things that she is more comfortable with but also talk about how you would like the relationship to be different. I don't know that I really have any good advice to give, but please feel free to ask questions, perhaps I can help to share some perspective on what it is like to feel guarded, insecure, timid, etc.
It's a Catch22 for sure, because to ask for something different is to point out that you're not happy with what she's providing already in her mind. She therefore feels badly and is less likely to try because why bother?
My MC described this as "not feeling safe", in that nothing you do is ever good enough, so why do anything? That would be easy for me to accept if I was a complainer, but I'm not. I'm not saying what she's doing is bad -- I'm saying "X is good, let's try to add Y too!" She hears "because you want Y, that means that X sux and I'm a failure to you".
Telling her I'm happy with X with no additional request also makes her feel badly, because I'm commenting on it at all. To her that means that the things I'm not calling out to comment on must be bad -- i.e. "I'll tell you I like X because it's the only good thing you do".
She tends to grab the worst possible interpretation of whatever I say. She realizes she does it, but says "that's who I am, deal with it".
As an example of this, the other week I had a morning meeting and said "can you take the kids to school this morning?" (Normally, I probably take them 80% of the time and she takes them 20%. I have no problem with that, I enjoy taking them.)
She got quite angry because she interpreted that as me complaining that "she never takes the kids to school and I have to do an unfair amount" and went off on a diatribe about that. I had no idea how she got from a nine word logistical question into such a soap opera. I didn't say it with tone, I didn't say it with a bad expression, I said "can you take the kids to school today?" and that was it. At the end, she said that she'll just take them all the time so I never have to do it. I said "but that's not what I'm looking for at all, I'm looking to have a discussion with you so we can manage this together. If you told me you also had a meeting, then I'd figure out if I could start mine from the car and maybe I could take them, but if you didn't have a conflict I wouldn't worry about it."
If you have any insight into how I can better negotiate situations like that, or avoid stepping into them, I would appreciate it.
Accuray
Married 18, Together 20, Now Divorced M: 48, W: 50, D: 18, S: 16, D: 12 Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 7/13/11 Start Reconcile: 8/15/11 Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 5/1/2014 (Divorced) In a New Relationship: 3/2015
Reading how you've described your W's reactions, I wondered whether you have read "The 3 Faces of the Victim" (available online)? It looks to me as though she has been victimized in the past, unconsciously identifies herself as a victim, and therefore positions you as the aggressor in cases where you clearly aren't, because it "feels" familiar.
Unfortunately, because this is an emotional rather than a rational response, it's very hard to change unless she learns to "catch" what she's doing. Really, counselling for her would be your best bet, but I believe she applies the same mindset to that ("I'm just like this, poor me, so nothing can change it.")
I guess the positive part is that change IS possible ... although only if she is willing to work through the pain of really looking at what she despises about herself.
Thanks Cyrena, I think you hit it exactly on the head. I do feel that she "assigns" unhappiness or complaints to me that I don't have. I have told her that I want for her to be happy and would love if she would seek counseling for this either with me or by herself.
She absolutely refuses counseling, she says that there is no guarantee it will help, and that the pain of going through it isn't worth the benefits it might produce, she'd rather live with it and has accepted it.
If my situation does come to an ultimatum where I am to become the WAS, it will be this issue that will be the focus of my departure.
I will read the "3 Faces of the Victim" and thank you so much for recommending it!
Accuray
Married 18, Together 20, Now Divorced M: 48, W: 50, D: 18, S: 16, D: 12 Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 7/13/11 Start Reconcile: 8/15/11 Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 5/1/2014 (Divorced) In a New Relationship: 3/2015
Accuray How's her sense of humor. For me I've found accepting and escalating to work. In other words:
"did you leave the lights on again"
"yes, I'm doing an experiment on light consumption"
The key is to use a light humorous tone.
It diffuses the situation, makes her laugh, then hopefully makes her feel silly for losing her temper. Clearly it doesn't always work, but try you'd be surprised how often it works.
Glad you can see that Accuray! That was my first thought when I read the lights exchange. "Again" is usually an indicator word that things are not happy.
