Stronger

[mishka422]

Sounds interesting. It's so nice that you are able to share things like that. The only way I can get Marc to sit down with me and watch anything is if it involves the military and military history, guns, planes or cars. It gets old really fast!

[kat727]

I am blessed having 4 kids. there are a few things that they all are into but otherwise vwery different. S16 and I love to watch 2 and 1/2 Men(we always seem to watch the reruns as opposed to the new one.) and Hot in Cleveland. He is also really into historical stuff too. S13 ghost stuff is a sure thing. S11 is still figuring out what she likes best and S19 is practically always with his girlfriend so we don't get to share much anymore.

I guess take the military stuff while you can!

kat

[ClingingToHope]

I'm just glad kids television is so much better than when I was growing up. SpongeBob Squarepants, Jimmy Neutron, Miley Cyrus. I got into all of it. I watched Geek Charming two weekends ago and it was good.

[mishka422]

I was watching "The Biggest Loser" last night and something happened that set me off into a short fit of anger aimed squarely at myself.

One of the contestants has been in a pretty co-dependent M with a man 20 years older than her. He was eliminated several weeks ago but she has held on. After he left she started getting stronger and stronger and was super focused on herself and getting healthy strictly for her. It seemed like she had broken through some of her patterns and I was so happy for her. Last night she called her H from a hotel room in DC where they were visiting the White House. Her husband told her how lonely he was and how much he needed her and whine, whine, whine....she let it get her and asked him if he needed her to come home. The bas!ard actually told her YES! A$$!!! He wasn't being supportive of her process, he was only considering his own selfish reasons for wanting her home. She went into a tailsping and starting bingeing on mayo, peanut butter, cheeseburgers and grilled cheese sandwiches. All at once! It made me SO MAD! She ended up being eliminated because she gained 2 pounds with all her craziness.

I thought about it more later and it's such a parallel to my own life and that is what angered me so much apparently. I lived so much of my life for everyone else and didn't pay any attention to my own needs and my own health. It was all in the name of 'taking care of my family'. 5 years ago I took my health into my hands, started a diet program with a doctor's help, and lost 60 pounds. That was only a dent in what I needed to lose but it was a good start. When I started that was when Gabe started his A. When he left I had to stop my diet doctor because I couldn't afford it anymore with the loss of income. I maintained for a few months due to the anxiety diet (eat a little, throw it up, eat a little, throw it up....). Once I was medicated and could eat again I started to gain a little bit, a little bit more...2 of 3 pounds here or there. Then, I lost my insurance entirely, had to stop the AD's and the depression hit so hard that my only comfort was food. Now I've gained all of that back and I'm scared. Scared to concentrate fully on my own health again. My twisted brain equates my taking care of myself with his reason for leaving. I didn't pay enough attention to him, I was wrapped up in my health, taking care of my mom, and taking care of Marc. Well, mom's care is no longer on my plate but everything else still is.

How do I go back to concentrating on me and not being afraid that is going to be a catalyst to him walking out again? It may sound stupid to you all, it really does to me too when I say it out loud, but it FEELS very real. How do I break the association between the two things in my head?

Suggestions?

[whatisis]

Juz thinking out loud here, hope it helps somehow. The brain doesn't care what kind of thought you put in there, as long as a thought goes in. Human beings always look for why something happens and much of the time that's a good thing. We want to figure it out so it won't happen again or be able to repeat it if it was a good thing. When we can't explain something we look for any explanation because it tends to make us feel more secure. You have equated looking after yourself as the cause of your husbands affair. So what you're telling yourself is that if you take care of yourself he will leave you. Does that make any logical sense at all? Now, what it does tell you is that you must pay attention to your relationship (assuming your lack of attention actually had anything to do with it). I'ts not an all or nothing thing. You can take care of you and take care of your relationship. There is a middle ground. Find it. If your health deteriorates due to weight issues will that preserve your relationship? Don't think so!

[mishka422]

No, it certainly won't help it either. That's the other side of my fears. They war with each other....it's nuckin futz.

The other part of my head says that he left because he couldn't deal with my illnesses. There was a while there that I was sick every other darned week for about 2 years. I used to get massive migraine headaches but those have eased quite a bit. When I get really sick (like it did the first part of the year) I have an extra layer of terror added to the daily disaster.

I always thought I was taking care of both, that's why it threw me for such a loop. Yes, there were times he didn't get as much attention, but there were plenty of times that the opposite was true.

There is a real possibility that none of this made any difference and he would have left no matter what I had been doing. The wiring in the brain gets so messed up when what you are told is so different than the perceived reality you live in, doesn't it? The words he said have much more power than I should have given them but they play like a tape recorder when something triggers them.

As if you need any more info to know just how seriously messed up I am, I'll give you one more scenario that just happened the other night. It may be TMI so I'm warning you! LOL

I walked into the bedroom and as I crossed the foot of the bed a horrible smell hit me square in the face. Now, knowing I didn't do it, that left only one other person in the room. I made a face, said 'ewwwwww....gees, you could have warned me.' and grabbed the spray. He insisted it wasn't him and I laughed it off and said,'yeah...ok...whatever.' Now, it's pretty unusual for him not to own it and laugh about it but he was adamant it wasn't him and then he got really mad at me and raised his voice and was angry that I was blaming him. Really? This was worth getting mad about and yelling at me. I just brushed it off and said ok. I got in bed and just turned on my side reading my book and not talking to him. I started crying and couldn't stop but I wasn't making any noise, no sniffling, no shaking, just silent tears. Suddenly he reached over and said he was sorry he got upset with me (by then we had both figured out it was our little tiny 10 pound dog) and then he realized I was crying. I just told him I was sorry he was so mad at me. He said he wasn't mad and that he was sorry he had seemed that way.

The crying was from fear that he was mad at me. WTH? Should it really matter? No. Should I have just apologized? Probably, but then he would have felt justified for getting mad at me in the first place. It was SO DANG STUPID.

Ok....fire away....

[kat727]

First of all: Big hug! Secondly, the reason he left had nothing to do with you. Every relationship has ups and downs and we need to own our part in that but no, you didn't make him leave. There was something that HE was missing inside. So easy if he said it was all your fault, you weren't this or that, but deep down it was something he was missing in himself.

We go around thinking that someone else can make us happy or whole. The truth is that it all is within us. Heaven help the person running around thinking someone completes them and without that person they are nothing.

As a mom, I know how hard it is to put yourself first. I often get sick when I slow down because I am constantly running on fumes. I am a work in progress. I have said this before, usually on the fidelity thread but when I was a flight attendant and we would do the oxygen mask demo, we say put the mask on yourself first and then children with you. I used to always think, oh no, I would put it on Christopher first. I didn't get it until the divorce: If I don't take care of myself first, I won't be around to help my kids or others that might need me. If I put it on my child first, he doesn't have the skill set that I do...he can't take care of me and his siblings. So as selfish as it sounds, put your oxygen mask on yourself first. Take care of you so that you can be there for Gabe and Marc tomorrow and many years into the future.

kat

[oldtimer]

"I thought about it more later and it's such a parallel to my own life and that is what angered me so much apparently."

Hold onto this tightly. When things really anger us in a visceral way, in a sustained way, those things are incredibly often about our own pain that we don't want to face. If you can get this and keep it, it is a key to enormous growth. Anger now shows us our pain, our way to growth. Anger becomes deeply valuable, transformative. Notice the anger. Look at it with compassion.

"Scared to concentrate fully on my own health again. My twisted brain equates my taking care of myself with his reason for leaving. I didn't pay enough attention to him, I was wrapped up in my health, taking care of my mom, and taking care of Marc. Well, mom's care is no longer on my plate but everything else still is.

How do I go back to concentrating on me and not being afraid that is going to be a catalyst to him walking out again? It may sound stupid to you all, it really does to me too when I say it out loud, but it FEELS very real. How do I break the association between the two things in my head?"

(1) Recognizing this association is one of your biggest moments. Really.

(2) I don't have an easy answer as to how to stop it from sabotaging you. But, I think RECOGNITION is the most important thing. And you've accomplished that.

(3) It doesn't matter if your success led to the A. Because, wouldn't be YOUR success. It would be your SUCCESS. Meaning, it wouldn't be you, it would be success that led Gabe to act out. And, unless you are willing to live a life without success (which would be horrible for you, Marc, and even Gabe), then that will have to be a problem he will have to confront. It is NOT about you. It is about Gabe. It is about his own feelings of inadequacy that pre-date you. It is NOT YOUR fault.

The best I can do here is share some fairly recent events that were fairly huge for me. I even considered starting a thread, lol.

Anyway, I've been stuck for more than a decade in my professional work in my main area of expertise, call it X. In a fairly recent Google search, I discovered XH was involved in some pretty nasty stuff, screwing around on his new W, repeating the same old disfunctional patterns that he hates himself for. (Don't worry, I'm not an XH stalker, I looked up his current email address via Google and this info was #1 on the Google Search screen. Let your imagination be as nasty as you want it to be, probably not far off the mark.)


Then, I could work on X again.

Hmmmm.... There were many contributing factors. Stability in a new home, feeling settled, job security, fabulous supportive-beyond-belief-H, and so on. But. It definitely helped finding that info.

At first, I felt sick for XH (and still do). But, I also felt a huge sense of relief. I FINALLY JUST THIS YEAR realized that I associated success with X with XH leaving (and a few various bombs in the years before.) I'd do well with X, and XH would really mess up our (X)M.

I did NOT realize this clear relationship until this year. It was HUGELY freeing.

I saw him doing the same old crap and it was NOT about me. I had nothing to do with it.

And, I realized I had nothing to do with it before. It wasn't ME.

EITHER --

(1) The relationship between X and XH's bad behavior was merely random (which it may well have been). (In your case, the relationship between your improved health and Gabe's bad behavior was entirely random.)

OR

(2) The relationship between X and XH's bad behavior was real, but it was not about ME, but about XH's inability to tolerate success (which it may well have been). (In your case, the relationship between your improved health and Gabe's bad behavior was not about YOU, but about Gabe's inability to tolerate living with a more secure partner.)

In the first case, the worry about X or weight loss is to be dismissed.

In the second case, the worry about X or weight loss is to be dismissed TOO. Because, ultimately, the sick co-dependence involved damages all involved parties (and their children) FAR MORE than the pain of growth that actually gets us to a better place.

You don't stay with an abuser. You don't stay with someone who can only tolerate a life of misery with you.

I think the BIGGEST part of getting unstuck/unblocked is simply recognizing the damaging association in our minds.

I was like WOW I HAD NO IDEA that was holding me back. But once I saw it, BAM. It was gone.

So you Mish. Smash that connection. YOU SEE IT. YOU HAVE IT IN YOUR SIGHTS. THIS IS MEGA-HUGE!!!!!

[imthemom]

oh mish, You are stronger then you thing!..i remember distinctly how you helped me through some pretty crappy times back in the beginning and if it werent for your strength I dont know what or were I would be...

Its hard to except that its ok to take care of ourselves and with your added history its even harder but at least you are aware of the conection, thats the first step!!...

Im certainly not one to advise right now but want you to know Im thinken about ya...((hugs))

[SunFunOne]

Just some early morning thoughts (which means my brain is not fully awake). But I read what you wrote yesterday and it really hit home for me too. In a lot of ways.

SUCCESS is threatening. Threatening to a spouse who is suffering from self esteem. It would not be threatening to a spouse who wants what is ultimately what is best for you - which is of course - what is best for your entire family.

My Dad used to come over every day after Ex left me. He knew all the dark and dirty little secrets. LIke OT's ex - my ex did some pretty nasty stuff - stuff that made the news - stuff that even my daughter does not know about to this day and hopefully never will. Anyway - my dad (and my godfather), who knew my ex very well (guy weekends together etc) - told me they believed ex left me because I was so successful. In my business. In my charity work.

My ex told me on the night I won a major volunteer award that "I always wanted to do something like this". He was not happy that I got all the glory. He did not share in my feelings of joy. This was very telling and spoiled what should have been a momentous occasion. I let him know how hurt I was. Not a single photo did he take despite the camera was on the table at the dinner we attended. Later he tried to make it up by "posing" a photo with my award, buying gifts of congratulations and a card. But the damage was done - and it stuck with me.

When I first learned about maggot (ow), Ex told me "we understand each other. We both suffer from low self esteem". So he picked someone who he thought was more of an equal. Hmmm...

My friends felt that I had outgrown him. I never saw it that way. At the time. But it did make me think. About how I was always the one who did the most in the family. My ex (upon leaving) complained about how controlling I was (words from ow no doubt). My C said "You were not controlling - you were taking charge of the family - someone had to do it and it is obvious that he left the majority of the work up to you).

I did not mean for this post to be all about me. But your posts awakened some memories in me. They made me remember some aspects of my own growth. When I remember some of the really bad times we were together. The worry that he would leave. Then sometimes - the WISHING that he would leave. Or drive his car off a cliff. (I know how bad that sounds but there were days I DID wish it). Because there were times he was horrible. But I was so afraid of him leaving me but not of him dying. I guess because if he left - he would still be around to abuse me.

I wish that you and Gabe could move to a place where you both feel safe. Because living without that security is horrible. It eats at you. And if you are afraid of growth - then that is VERY telling!

I can only tell you about my own experience. And that is this - once I stopped being so afraid of him leaving - I got so much stronger. I didn't let him stop me. Yes - he did leave. And yes it was difficult and painful. But once I got through it - I found a life that I could never have had if he stayed. I am still the one who does most of the work (with the kids) - but that has not changed and they are still very close to me. They did not like the couple that we had become. They worried that we would split too. But once we did - they did not want us to get back together. Because they knew it wasn't healthy. Of course they are affected deeply by the divorce but probably moreso by the mess the marriage had become and all the walking on eggshells that took place in our family.

You saw in the woman on tv - something major in yourself. The willingness to do whatever it takes to keep your man happy. Despite the toll it takes on yourself. Despite it not being what is best for you.

It is 11 years since that award. And 11 years since ex's affair began. And a few months short of ex leaving. I have grown and changed and I love the life that I have. Ex is stuck, has a lousy R with his kids, is still chasing his dreams - which car, trip, woman, lottery will make him happy. He has not changed. He will never be happy. Unless he finally figures out that happiness comes from within.

Don't lose sight of the important message that was sent to you via The Biggest Loser. Funny thing is that when I heard about that new tv show a few years ago - I was going to nominate my ex for it (not knowing it was a weight loss show). Because he IS "the biggest loser"!

Barb