am i on the right track??? part 2

[Rick1963]

Zig what did the IC said that bothered u? And why are u asking us instead of your IC? Are you getting free counseling? If not than you need to ask your IC. Hang in there

[zig]

hi rick

i was at my 4th appointment and after describing recent events which had been hard for s (with h's behavior), and also talking about my family, we moved onto discussing how i should approach the counseling that h and i are going to go together to next week - it's to talk to a counselor who specializes in kids as s is not dealing with this very well

My IC had agreed earlier to go through this with me. she really caught me by surprise after i asked her what was the best way to bring up some of the stuff h is doing without making it sound as if i am pointing the finger or criticizing. her response was "well you can start by saying something like this: since h and you are headed for divorce, what's the best thing we can do for son?"

i immediately called her up on it and basically her reply was a shrug and saying well from what you're telling me that's what it sounds like. i asked her - so you think just because he's having an affair and the way he's doing it, divorce is the only thing you see (and this is at the 4th appointment) - she didn't really say anything clearly after that.

okay - so another complication? she's an old friend of mil's. at the first appointment i stated clearly that i wanted to see her only if she was pro-marriage and used a solution-oriented approach and she avidly said yes. in fact she asked me if either of us had filed for divorce or separation and when i said no, she said let's hold off on that and not be hasty about it

i reminded her yesterday that she had said that and her reply was something along the lines of well that's before you told me stuff

i'm disappointed - and now feel a bit stuck, because the counselor we are seeing with h is her colleague in the same office - what a mess! and if she plants that idea in her head -

oh - i'm so tired of trying and that's the problem isn't it? i'm trying.

i'm so confused - i want to help son out - he's not so good in this, and i'm so confused about how to arrange this with bloody h insisting non-stop that there is no way this sitch could possibly be affecting s..

even though for months i have been wanting h to go with me to talk to someone about s, to make sure we are not messing up, and both families are very concerned for s, now when he's agreed to go, i find myself in this bloody mess, and suddenly have this strong feeling that this person we are going to is not right for us

am i making too much of all of this? one of the "flaws" in my personality that i'm really trying to work on

thanks rick, for taking the time to read -

zig

[Rick1963]

Yes you are creating a crisis where there isn't one yet. Calm down. The IC is bound by legal and ethical standards. Remember to ask the thepapist about what goals are you guys working on. What will things look like when the work is done?

You said that you are making to much of this and that it is a flaw. Can you define it? What would you call what u do?

Hope you have a great day today

[zig]

i guess i forgot to mention that when i had first expressed my concern to the IC about me and h going to see the counselor with us having very opposing views, and that i needed help to find the right approach, she said that she would discuss it with the child counselor and co-ordinate with her.

the opposing views are that h insists that s is much much better off in this situation with him leaving because it was horrible for s.
from what i see, s is really having trouble emotionally with this and is entirely unable to express it. for 7 months, all this child has been told is "dada and mama argue so i'm going to live somewhere else"

you're right , not only do i need to calm down - which i have, but i also need to detach from the effect this is having on s until i resolve my own issues about how much i need to protect s from emotional upheaval. i sat on it for a long time last night and realized that i want to protect s from hurt that it is really affecting my reactions to this sitch.

[zig]

venting a bit, sort of in the same vein as my reply to rick above.

on the other hand, i see all other parents do this, and frankly i don't think i "protect" him any more than the next parent. but the problem is that when i DO see him being hurt, my reaction is much more intense and that is definitely linked to my own issues.

i guess using the word "flaw" was maybe not the best one. more that this is something in my personality/character that could do with a bit of redefining and clarifying.

for years h criticized me heavily - extremely heavily , about how over-protective i was with s and always pointed out that it was about my being sexually abused.

now in the last years, i have been very confused. i've talked to moms with kids that are my s's age, and they have demonstrated and described their own reactions and ways of protecting their kids and i've found that i was not particularly over-protective at all.
but there definitely is a rise in me when i am faced with it.

thursday evenings and fridays are very bad - as soon as i remind s on thursday evening that he will be going to h's the next day, some kind of little hell breaks out. he starts acting out a lot , and i am NOT allowed to mention it or refer to it (him going to h's) in any way. i'm already feeling emotional because i hate for him to leave and then have to watch the only way he knows how, to express his pain

i'm hating the idea of going to the counseling with h. i'm so upset about what is going on with s that i don't trust that i can be calm, collected, pleasant, clear, concise and detached.

i'm so afraid that i'll get triggered and will just scream out all my hurt and pain and all of s's too.

i was feeling sort of okay about the sitch but when the IC said how she thinks we're headed for divorce, i was like oh [censored] - i can't stand the idea of dealing with h for years and years in the state he's in - it was difficult enough these last years, but now it's a nightmare.

sorry for the rant - this friday is the worst - because after 6 months of having s only every other week, i had him for the entire month of march except the 5 days when they went on their trip. s became emotionally so okay during this time, and all that strange behavior was gone, and then it hit me in the face yesterday evening as we both had to deal with going back to the previously established one week at a time.

the worst is that s won't say one thing about it - i wish he would scream and shout - but he can't because we all know that emotions are NOT allowed to be expressed in this family - h disapproves and so it's not done.

[finding nemo]

Zig,

I'm so sorry for the way your sitch is playing out w/ your son. My kids don't have regular visits from their dad yet, so I can only imagine how difficult it is for you. I can tell you my D8 has nightmares the night before, the night of, and the night after she visits w/ my H, along with awful temper tantrums (not in front of H though).

However, when I was reading your post, I had an idea for you, if you don't think it will work don't use it - you won't be hurting my feelings. Get your son a calendar and have him color in (one month at a time) the days/nights your H will be visiting with him. Hang the calendar up in his room or on the frig, wherever. You need to stop reminding him about the visits, he's partly feeding off of your emotions. And your sitch is anything like mine, my kids feel like H didn't just leave me, but he left them, too. So, they all kinda feel like they have to side with the parent who hasn't left - if they want to or not.

Maybe this will help your son not feel badly about leaving to be with his dad.

Hope it helps! Sending you hugs!!

[~ kd ~]

i'm hating the idea of going to the counseling with h. i'm so upset about what is going on with s that i don't trust that i can be calm, collected, pleasant, clear, concise and detached.

i'm so afraid that i'll get triggered and will just scream out all my hurt and pain and all of s's too.

And you say this like it's a bad thing?

Who says you have to be calm, collected, pleasant, clear, concise and detached about things that you are passionate about?

Who says that you can't show your human side?

Who says that others should not know that you are hurting...?

Has your H ever seen this in you? I don't mean the little pouty side... I mean the "holy geezus, here comes the wrath of a woman" side...?

Maybe it would be a good 180 in a safe environment of the counsellor's office...

[zig]

thanks memo for your suggestion - i will definitely try it out - though what comes to mind right away is that he won't even think of looking at it.

will try to find some variation on that- like getting him to cross each day out so then he sees it.

i have been very aware that he maybe feeding off my emotions, and and so have been very casual and careful about how i bring it up. i was worried that the way i put things was maybe triggering the reaction and so i asked my extremely level-headed friend to help me word things in a more neutral even way- even that didn't help.

i'm sorry to hear about your kids - and about your d8 having nightmares - that must be so hard for you. do your kids talk about how they feel or even ask questions?

for s10 - here's the scenario - me saying - i'm packing your stuff to take over to dada's tomorrow, do you want to include anything? and that's all it takes.

or - dada will be picking you up at 5 on friday. he'll answer oh great, but then the rest of the time until friday is major acting out

i mean i have to say something - he's complained to me a lot that no one tells him anything. and at least when he's with me i make the following weeks plan clear for him so he knows what to expect. he stays the whole week at h's but i have him at least 3 afternoons after school. h doesn't tell him anything at all, so i have to let him know in some way.

maybe i am looking at this the wrong way and need a fresher perspective

thanks for helping me out:)
zig

[finding nemo]

Put everything on the calendar, and maybe have him put it in his backpack. And how about he packs, or pulls out the things he wants to wear (and then you pack his socks & underwear, or whatever he's missing).

I've tried to be very open with all 3 of my kids. We go for walks on nice days and I try to spend individual time during the walk with each of them. I also try spending part of each day talking to each of them separately and together. I have explained that Daddy left Mommy, but still loves you 3 (although it really doesn't appear to anyone that he still cares about our kids). I explain that Daddy feels overwhelmed by so many bad things happening. Feeling overwhelmed is like a big tidal wave of problems. When you see a tidal wave, what do you think your choices are? They came up with drown or run. I agreed and said you could also swim through the wave (hence my title), which means work through your problems. Daddy will get there eventually, he's just not there yet.

And lastly, I have tried to have a very strict schedule where we've changed some things around. For instance, we now have dinner early (since we don't have to wait for H to come home). I've also planned meals for on a 2 week rotation schedule so they know what we're going to have for dinner each night, too. I'm trying to give them a bit of predictability during this time of extreme upheaval.

I know this was long, but hope something helps. I really think it's so hard to be a parent in this sitch when you see you child being hurt and there's not much you can do. Good luck!

[zig]

Who says you have to be calm, collected, pleasant, clear, concise and detached about things that you are passionate about?

Has your H ever seen this in you? I don't mean the little pouty side... I mean the "holy geezus, here comes the wrath of a woman" side...?

Maybe it would be a good 180 in a safe environment of the counsellor's office...

hi KD - when i read your post i was immediately struck by the truth of it

but here's the problem KD- i was the "wrath of a woman" side all the time, and my 180 is to be patient, quiet, pleasant and understanding. i have not lost it with h since the beginning of this sitch except for twice when he really went over the line - and i know 100% that he has been amazed and awed -

i was always losing it before over every little thing. it has been the most amazing thing i have ever accomplished for myself. but like i said before - this subject is too close to me emotionally and that's why i think i'm freaking - how to keep my changes in place, when i'm so triggered off. (also i have finally realized that for h any extreme display of emotion is so threatening that he shuts down, and the more neutral one is, the better he can hear you)

my dilemma is applying the 37 rules here - if i point out how troubled s is to h during counseling - he takes it as criticism and me trying to talk him into coming back. how on earth do i separate these 2 things, since all these problems would not exist if h wasn't having an affair, lying to s and everyone else, blowing s off to go see ow, taking s on a trip and blowing s off, etc etc

it's ironic how he goes on about s being better off because we don't argue, and can't even begin to see the deeper damage he is causing. how i can see s disengaging from him week by week, and watching their relationship deteriorate. h literally brags about how great their relationship is, and how it is not like his own with his father, and is completely blind to how it is BECOMING like it.

i know that it is not my responsibility how their relationship is or becomes - but where i feel i need to do something as a parent is to be able to find the right way to let this man know how his child is hurting. i really think that s would like to just live in this home with me - but he is so loyal to both of us that he doesn't dare even think it. but he shows it all the time.

and maybe i'm wrong, even in that?

in this kind of sitch , would i be blowing all the DB'ing i've done if i just said to h - stop fooling yourself - this child is pained to be with you even though he adores you? - or a milder more loving version of that?

thanks for your help
zig