am i better off without him?

[sandi2]

My suggestion is that you stay out of R conversations. If he persists with statements like that, then look at him and listen. However, don't say anything in response. When you can...nod your head, and when you can't agree then don't nod or shake your head...just listen.

how can i ever be happy with you again?

"I can't make your happiness for you. We each have to make ourselves happy." (Then leave it at that. It will be tempting to add how you want another chance, but don't. Let him do the talking.)

i've listed the good and the bad about you and the bad outweighs the good.

"Okay".

you're evil.

i pushed my kids away for you!

No response to statements like this. Just don't take the bait. I know it would be extremely hard for me not to come back with a whole dialog, but you would be saying "more" by not saying anything to him. After his spew, walk away from him.

That response (by saying nothing) will make a bigger statement and will cause him to think.

If you are bracing yourself for when he comes home, then I'm sure he is also. He will think you have a ton to say. When you don't respond like you once did, it will catch him off balance, and that will be what he thinks about later.

It doesn't mean you agree when you don't say anything to his verbal attack, it just means you are listening.

[scaredsilly]

wow, sandi, you are so wise! thank you so much for helping me. i really am all caught up in this and it's hard to figure out how to handle it all since it's so foreign. it's always so tempting to respond, correct, or defend. it's hard to remember that i don't HAVE to respond at all and just listen. i've decided to try to count to 3 in my head, breathe deeply several times, and then choose the appropriate way to handle. it's just so hard when i'm under attack. but, i'm going to try harder.

on my GAL front, i've just booked a cruise with my son and his family for later in the month. i'm not sure how to handle it with my husband as he will be in the same house with me when i pack and when i leave (at least that's what i think now).

any suggestions on how to let him know i'm going? do i let him know where and with whom or just keep it vague? i know he won't be happy about it because he seems to be happiest when i just sit home and feel punishment and misery... ;-)

i'm also going to call for an appointment with an IC today to help me deal with my life, now, in the past, and in the future, no matter what happens.

thanks to all who are on here. without your stories and guidance, i'd be lost and really making lots of mistakes.

[scaredsilly]

hello helpers, another question; should i continue cooking dinner for my husband when he comes home? i'm retired and he's not. if i want to be the woman he would never want to leave, shouldn't i continue making dinner for him and bringing him his coffee in the morning? or would i be pursuing and being a doormat? this is all so confusing for me.

i have been almost totally dark for several weeks. he does not contact me, either (he's working out of town until tomorrow). i think he found out i went to ohio to visit my sister three weeks ago and that upset him (long story about an old flame i saw at a reunion last august while he was with me but not more than that, no flirting or anything but he seemed insecure about it).

thanks for any help you can offer!

[sandi2]

i've just booked a cruise with my son and his family for later in the month. i'm not sure how to handle it with my husband as he will be in the same house with me when i pack and when i leave (at least that's what i think now).

any suggestions on how to let him know i'm going? do i let him know where and with whom or just keep it vague? i know he won't be happy about it because he seems to be happiest when i just sit home and feel punishment and misery... ;-)

Would he not hear about through your son or family? If not, then this is what I'd do. If it were me, I would not mention it until time to pack. I would tell him in a very nonchalant fashion and then proceed to the bedroom to start packing. That way, it would not appear as if you were looking for his permission to go, and also it would give you something to do with your hands and keep you busy instead of waiting to see his reaction to your news. If he starts storming around, you just keep calm and go about your packing. Pay no attention to his reaction. But, I would tell him when and where you were going just b/c it's a cruise and that's pretty big in my book. However, the main point here is that you are to act as if it's nothing really. You don't make a big "announcement" about it. Just kind of "in passing". Then immediately go start packing. Let him ask who you're going with, etc. I would be honest and tell him it's with your son's family.....but just don't volunteer the information. Wait for him to ask. If he doesn't ask....oh well. (Seriously, he'll find out if he wants to know.) It's important that you not allow his behavior to stop you from leaving and having a good time.

should i continue cooking dinner for my husband when he comes home? i'm retired and he's not. if i want to be the woman he would never want to leave, shouldn't i continue making dinner for him and bringing him his coffee in the morning? or would i be pursuing and being a doormat? this is all so confusing for me.

Well, do you enjoy cooking for him? Does he seem to appreciate it or does he take it for granted? Does he think that is part of your "job"?

Taking him coffee!! You mean, while he's in bed? (Just kidding)

I'm sure all men would like that kind of pampering. That's how I think of it....pampering. Now other women may not. I would find it hard to pamper a man who mistreats me and is disrespectful to me. To me, that would be too much like a doormat.

As for as continuing cooking or taking him coffee b/c that is being "the woman he would never want to leave".......well, you've been doing that all along, so my question would be, how's that working? Not trying to be a smarty mouth, and I understand your question, but sometimes you have to shake things up! He may be so spoiled to being treated like a king that he doesn't even think about it. I grant you my H would notice if I brought him coffee in bed! But, he would not treat me disrespectful, either.

My suggestion would be cut out the coffee and see what happens. Try leaving his dinner on the stove while you go out to GAL. You don't have to do it every night, but once in a while.....to shake things up. He needs to realize what a jewel he has in you, and how will he know unless he misses it?

[luvless]

If he is not home for dinner....he doesn't get any....sorry.

[scaredsilly]

thank you luv and sandi,
i will try to remain detached and calm and matter-of-fact. i asked him back in january if he wanted to take a cruise with me to try to get our relationship back on track and to feel some closeness and warmth towards each other again but he declined. my son and DIL then invited me this month so i accepted because i will have time with my grandkids and it should be fun (and i'm GAL).

as for the coffee, yes, i have been bringing him coffee in bed every morning for many years. i usually get up before him and i bring his coffee to help him wake up and then we USED to sit together and talk for about 30 minutes before we had to get ready for the day.

now that he's decided to sleep in the other room, i make the coffee but don't bring it to him in that room. he comes out and gets it himself but then we sit and talk for a while (only superficial stuff now). i don't mind cooking for him since i'm retired and have to eat, too, but i will probably only do it two or three times and week now and leave it on the counter if he gets home late.

i have pampered him a lot during our marriage. i handle all the finances (banking, bill paying) and all our correspondence and bookkeeping (rental properties), pretty much everything to keep the wheels turning for our household. i do all the cleaning, cooking, grocery shopping, laundry and he does the outside work; yard, repairs, autos. we've been a good team in the past. the problems have always been how we deal with his kids (adults now).

i always thought that once they became 18 and graduated from high school, our financial obligations towards them would be pretty much over and we would then be able to focus on our marriage and our time together.

well, it didn't happen that way. their mom kept putting them out, one at a time, and i volunteered to take them in, one at a time. at one point, we had two of them while they are in college. the son was ok but the daughter was very hard to live with and it caused our marriage to suffer.

i appreciate all your help and encouragement in my situation. what was supposed to be my "golden years" in my retirement has become a nightmare. but the pain and anxiety are lessening and i feel i have a little more control over my emotions but i've yet to be put to the test with my husband's presence since feb. 10th, when i came home and stopped trying to be with him (to make him enjoy my company again!).

i see my IC tomorrow. she is "solution based" so i'm looking forward to it. wish me luck and thank you all again!

[scaredsilly]

really suffering today. it's as if the bomb was dropped a second time. i've been physically separated from H for 7 weeks while he worked out of town. he came home on friday night. he went straight into the guest room to bed (he had played golf all day and had some drinks). it was only 8:30 so i went in and asked if he was going to bed so soon. one thing led to another i became upset that his mother had been the one to help him move back. ( i know i was wrong to show irritation but i had a few glasses of wine-no excuse). we did have sex...?

the next morning, i told him that i had been thinking it over a lot and agree that we can't be together. it was as if a load had been lifted from his shoulders. we talked for hours. we talked about all the problems we've had together and how we could have done better. HOWEVER, he still wants a divorce. he cried all day yesterday and all day, off and on today. i don't understand this. he says he's crying because of all the bad memories but he now hugs me and tells me he loves me and that i'm a fine person??

he's going to stay at his mother's house because he says it's too hard to stay here with me. he says he cries too much when he's with me. until i said i agreed with the divorce, he was only angry and would never initiate physical contact. now he hugs me when i cry, tells me he loves me, even KISSED (briefly) when we hugged.

and yet, he talks about getting an appraiser to the house so we can find out how much he will have to give me for my share and using the kelly blue book for the boat value. each time he talks about the divorce and separating our belongings, it hurts so much, especially, since now he is being so kind, caring, and almost loving again! is he just so grateful that i'm agreeing to get out of his life? it's killing me to have the best of him and the worst of this nightmare together.

when he's not around, i can almost believe i will be ok and better off without him but it's painful. he wants to take me to dinner on wednesday night...

i tried being pleasant but otherwise detached and that does not work with him. he says that me being vulnerable is what gets his heart. i have been so tough and distance with him the last few years because of having to live with his adult children, i think he's looking for a softer side of me but still telling me that it's too late.

i'm so sad right now. i will have to leave my home and move. i advised him today that even though i'm agreeing to this, i will not handle any of the details. he wants to try to use a divorce mediator instead of attorneys to save money. he says i can have anything i want in the house. i told him i will be fair but not generous since i'm retired and will need to sell anything i can't use to fund my life.

one thing he did say was when i advised him about splitting his pension. he said he had not thought about that. i told him that i think he's in for a shock as to how much he will have to give me. he will have to take out a mortgage on our primary home to pay me off. he doesn't have that now. he will have to sell three rental properties, one of his two boats, and pay me for an SUV we have to tow the boat and an enclosed trailer that he will need to keep. he said, he had been thinking about that some but how much did i think it would be since, "as they say, it's cheaper to keep her".

WTF?? any ideas on what's going on here? i'm so confused and lost. i sometimes think he just wants to get on with the wonderful life of living by himself and doing whatever he wants to do.

[YankeeCandle]

It kind of sounds like my H at the beginning of our separation. He was all over the place. Keeps saying he wants a divorce, is convinced it's the best thing for him, and is also taken aback at the potential financial settlement. He hadn't expected to have to give over so much. Shows moments of love and then coldness - mostly via email. In person, he's been nuetral.

It's like they are having a battle between their heads and their hearts. They still love us, but their left brain has gotten in the way. So, they are all confused.

It was driving me nuts, so I decided to just get on with my life the best way without him, while he figures himself out. I remain pleasant and positive everytime we email, and I do miss him terribly still (3 months now) but what else to do?

I'm curious to see what others might advise.

[scaredsilly]

thank you, yc. at least i know someone else has experienced this. i saw my therapist today and she said that his crying does not mean he wants to stay together but could just be relief and sadness. of course, it's not what i want to hear.

i sent him a list of individual counselors that are approved by our insurance. we only have a $15 co-pay.

i wrote this:
"H, i had another counseling session this morning. it helps me so much. it helps me to think about what i want and how i can get there. i think we are both in pain. i think everyone who goes through what we are going through, and what we've gone through, is in pain. i think it would also help you to be able to talk to someone and our insurance only requires a $15 co-pay. pretty good investment, in my opinion. sometimes we are doomed to repeat things that we can overcome with help and understanding. i've included this list of approved counselors for us (our mental health administrator is "Blank").
my counselor is in (our city) so you needn't worry about any conflict of interest. i picked ones here that are near the office, if you're interested.
just a thought. i really want the best for you (and me!).
W"

as i've said before, LRT does not work with him. he likes kind words and feeling loved. with him, it's "out of sight, out of mind".

i sent him a text last night after thinking about our weekend of rehashing all our problems in our marriage:

"I saw this: talking about your marriage problems makes you relive them (along with the pain). I don't want any more pain and it kills me to see you in pain. Moving forward, I only want to be kind to you. I'm so sorry for the pain I have caused one of the sweetest people on earth. I've been so wrong about so much but the way we talk about it brings out my defenses (fears) and that's not good because it makes you feel that I don't understand YOUR feelings. I do. It's hard to say so when someone is telling you how awful you've been but I know it. Im not refuting your feelings. I will try to never hurt you again. If I don't communicate that well, please know that that is my motive. I hope one day you will look back on me with a loving heart and remember more of my goodness and thoughtfulness. I have to keep a positive mindset so I think I had better not talk about hurtful things. I can promise you that I'm listening and learning but it's for my sake that I am since I'm the only one I can control (and sometimes I have problems there but i am working on it). I am your friend and will always feel love for you."

He sent back:

"Thank you for your kind words, I can see the wisdom in your words. I do see your kindness in a lot of ways. Enjoy your days"

And two hours later, he sent another text:

"I do know lots of your goodness & thoughtfulness ( T & G ) I will try to remember and send one a day. Today's is: the hard work and caring you gave my mom after the Hurricane damage to her home."

so, at least we are speaking positively and lovingly to each other. he sent me another text today with something i had done for him and his kids that he thought was thoughtful and good.

however, he still makes statements like "where we are" (alluding to divorcing) so it makes him being so kind to me so much harder to bear. i cannot talk of divorce. it makes me sick to my stomach. i've agreed we would be better off but i really don't think so. i think (of course, or i wouldn't be here) that we can work on us and come out better than before. our time to be together is here, we've succeeded in life and have the finances to do it but he's departed from that dream. he's even said to me once, "i don't have any dreams with you anymore".

i don't know what to do other than to keep trying to make myself a better person, GAL (going to grandson's baseball game tonight), and continue to validate his feelings.

thanks for any help and comments from anyone out there. i could not make it if it weren't for this community.

[scaredsilly]

one of my husband's biggest problems with me is that when i felt our relationship crumbling and felt as if he were abandoning our marriage (and me), i told him i had decided to buy a condo in my home town to get closer to "my family, my friends, and my hometown" since everything in our marriage has mostly been about his family, his friends, and we live in his hometown.

he has told me that buying that condo was "as close to cheating as you could have gotten". i've come to realize that it was an afront to his masculinity and a major pulling away from him. he decided then to divorce me.

i've been thinking about it and i know i went too far with trying to protect myself from a perceived abandonment. he's always told me he doesn't care for the "tough" me (even though he did in the beginning). his first wife was so indicisive and unmotivated.

i texted him today that i shouldn't have bought the condo. that's all. i didn't expect a response. when i talked to him, he told me that he's glad for my sake that i'm happy with my realization (in other words, don't try to use this to get me back).

i then texted him that "i am telling you these things to make amends for the pain i've caused, not to get you to stay married to me. i cannot stay married to you. i love you."

then he called me and talked about it. he said, again, that it was the proverbial straw that broke the camel's back. we talked some more and i told him that this is the worst thing i've ever been through since the death of my father. he said it's worse than the death of his.

i need guidance. LRT does not work for him. he has said he can't move on talking to me because it's too hard on him. yet, he texted me just now with an example of an action of mine that he thinks is good and thoughtful. so he's making the effort to make me feel good about how he feels about me and say positive things. yet...he's at his mother's.

he has agreed to go to IC for himself.

any insights or thoughts would be greatly appreciated.