Forgiveness

[SunFunOne]

It's pretty obvious that she is NOT into trying to make any kind of peace. Sometimes it is better not to get the last word in. Let her think that she did. Silence is golden.

Barb

[25yearsmlc]

at THIS point Antlers,

your retorts will be seen as you getting last word in. Not as cute jokes or peace offerings. Maybe much later, like in a year

you two can communicate more normally.

TIl then, just keep her abreast of school notifications and document that (email w/attachments will suffice) and

don't work so hard at improving something when it's too raw for her.

It's like picking at the scab saying you want it to heal. It can't heal right now. Leave it alone.

Stay strong and consistent for your kids. That's your mission for now.

You do NOT have to communicate "well" with her, ever.

You just have to keep her informed. We can hope she follows suit later. But you can't expect it any time soon unless you feel like seeing her in court.

But the more you keep her informed, the better you will look in court IF she brings you back there. And it's good for the son to have both parents know the real deal at school, so he can't play as many games with you.

Don't underestimate the value of him having sibling time either. He loves and misses his mom and his sister, so this living arrangement does not shock me even if all was going well with you two.

There may come a time when they both change their minds & come live with you,

but just don't make your first response a request for child support from their mom, okay? OR a "victory" for you.

Hang in there.

((( )))

[antlers]

I still have not heard one word from my son since he got mad and left on Jan. 11th. I have reached out to him several times since then, but to no avail. I've sent him several short messages along the lines of "I'm thinking about you and I love you". His uncle and grandmother have reached out to him also, with the same results...nothing. It is heartbreaking.
My youngest daughter and I (the one who sent me that nasty text back in December) have been getting along well though. We text daily, and go out to lunch frequently.
I am very despondent over my son.

[25yearsmlc]

Antlers,

this is not complicated.

Back off the son and embrace the time you have with your youngest d. What healthy choice do you have?


There was a time, I suspect, when none of them wanted to be around you.
So take what you can get for now and savor it.

Big picture-there is progress.

"DO" NOTHING about your son for now, (but staying involved in his schoolwork via communication with them).

Stop trying to control the outcome. It will get better IN TIME.

You have to back off...pull way back.

Can you do that? If not, why not?

That is a question you really have to ponder.

(((( ))))

[antlers]

at THIS point Antlers,

your retorts will be seen as you getting last word in. Not as cute jokes or peace offerings. Maybe much later, like in a year

you two can communicate more normally. A short while back you advised me that if I received a communication from her, to respond with some wit, be brief, and have ZERO expectations. That's all I'm doing. Honest.

TIl then, just keep her abreast of school notifications and document that (email w/attachments will suffice) and

don't work so hard at improving something when it's too raw for her.

It's like picking at the scab saying you want it to heal. It can't heal right now. Leave it alone. OK. Makes sense.

Stay strong and consistent for your kids. That's your mission for now. I am staying consistent. I intend to continue. I'm staying strong too...even though the situation with my son is painful. Got another real bad nastygram from the school a few days ago.

You do NOT have to communicate "well" with her, ever. I realize that...but it'd be nice. For the kids and us.

You just have to keep her informed. We can hope she follows suit later. But you can't expect it any time soon unless you feel like seeing her in court. I picked up daughter from school today because she texted me that she was sick and asked me to come and get her. I texted her mom to let her know. Fuk court. I don't EVER want anything to do with court again as long as I live.

But the more you keep her informed, the better you will look in court IF she brings you back there. And it's good for the son to have both parents know the real deal at school, so he can't play as many games with you. I'll keep her informed. She's getting all the nastygrams from the school too. She's known the real deal at his school for a long time now. Hasn't mattered in the past. She's used every opportunity to take advantage of the situation. Maybe that'll change...I don't know. I can't control that. I'll continue to do what's right regardless.

Don't underestimate the value of him having sibling time either. He loves and misses his mom and his sister, so this living arrangement does not shock me even if all was going well with you two. I'm sure he missed all of them. All was going well with us, except for him acting out. It still hurts for him to have acted like he has since he's been gone.

There may come a time when they both change their minds & come live with you,

but just don't make your first response a request for child support from their mom, okay? OR a "victory" for you. If that ever came about, I WOULD NOT do that.

Hang in there. I am. It hurts...but I am. I AM enjoying being with my daughter more.

((( )))

[antlers]

Antlers,

this is not complicated. it seems pretty complicated when you're in the midst of it. I can see how it's not complicated to someone who isn't emotionally invested in it.

Back off the son and embrace the time you have with your youngest d. What healthy choice do you have?
I don't have any other healthy choice but that. I am really enjoying the time with my daughter. It'd be easy to back off my son because I haven't heard one word from him since he left.

There was a time, I suspect, when none of them wanted to be around you.
So take what you can get for now and savor it. Yep. There was. But things change. My son now wants nothing to do with me, and my youngest daughter is spending time with me. She hasn't mentioned that nasty text she sent in December and neither have I.

Big picture-there is progress. There has been progress with my daughter. Things have gotten bad with my son. Real bad. Things are up and down with me...there are peaks and valleys, but overall, I DO believe I've made a lot of progress personally since Halloween.

"DO" NOTHING about your son for now, (but staying involved in his schoolwork via communication with them). Nothing? Should I not continue to text him once or twice a week? That's really all I can do. I do stay in touch with his school.

Stop trying to control the outcome. It will get better IN TIME. I hope it does. I don't want to control any damn thing or anybody...just me. I feel like I'm losing my son though. It's heartbreaking.

You have to back off...pull way back.OK. But can you elaborate on "back off...pull way back"? I'm not in a position to do much of anything else. Does that mean stop attempting communication with him at all?

Can you do that? Yeah. I can. Damn, I've done lots of stuff since all this began that I didn't think I could. It doesn't come natural though. It takes EFFORT. And the passage of time alone don't do it for me. I've gotta take positive action during that passage of time. Again, can you elaborate on what 'that' is? If not, why not?

That is a question you really have to ponder. I guess there's been some times in the past that backing off, letting go, and pulling back have been hard for me. I guess I tied in my self worth with whatever I needed to back off from, or let go of, or pull back from. Anytime I've not done that, the results have been negative. Pursuit for instance, has NEVER worked well for me.

(((( ))))

[antlers]

Got another bad nastygram from son's school yesterday regarding his bad behavior and absolute ceasing of putting forth any effort to do his work at school. It was forwarded to his mother.
I got a call while I was at work from ex regarding a fight that she and my daughter had. She said that she had asked daughter to be nice and respectful to her and that it was making her "crazy and depressed like when your dad and I were together". Daughter got very mad and left and was roaming the streets (at night) with friends and would not go with her mom when she pulled up beside her. Ex said daughter told her "I'm done!" She asked if I would try to contact her (since daughter wasn't communicating with her mom). I listened to everything ex had to say and simply said "I'll try to reach her". Daughter got back in touch with me right away and walked to my job in the dark and rain with one of her friends. I took them to my house and had my brother come over to stay with them while I did some stuff after work. I came back, brother went home, and I took daughter's friend over to another friends house. Then daughter and I got some dinner and went back home. I didn't ask her about anything, and she didn't have much to say other than she was fighting with her mom and she wasn't going home tonight. She did not want her mother to know where she was, or where she'd spend the night. She's really pissed at her. I did tell her that I would let her mom know where she was and she got upset with me about that. She wanted to spend the night with a friend who lives across the street from her school, so I talked with that girls mother on the phone and in person and she said my daughter was welcome there for the night. I have to leave for work way before it's even time for daughter to get up and start getting ready for school. Daughter stayed with me kinda late then I took her over there.
She had been trying to get my son (who is still at his moms) to set some clothes out for her but they were fighting with each other too. He wasn't home. Son was still out roaming the streets with another 14 year old boy who has already dropped out of school. Keep in mind it's a school night. Daughter said he finally got home around 11 o'clock at night and we went by there and daughter went in and quickly got some stuff and left. I dropped her off, talked with girls mom, and went home. daughter thanked me and said she loved me.
After I got home, daughter and I continued to text some. I sent the following communication to ex.......
"Ex, I know we have been at each other throughout most of this and I'd really like to find some common ground as it relates to our kids. I love them and I know you do too. Here's what I'm thinking....our kids have paid a high price for watching us fight. Before, during, and after the divorce. I hope we can both put our kids best interests above our own. What are your thoughts?"

I have yet to hear anything back from her.

[antlers]

Thoughts? Comments? Feedback? I'd appreciate hearing from you folks.

[SunFunOne]

Gineen has a point here. But I know you are walking on thin ground. I don't even know how to advise you. I think you need a mediator. I think you need to go back to your lawyer for advice and input. This situation is not healthy for anyone. But you can't demand he live with you. The courts will decide that he is old enough to make that decision.

But, after thinking about your situation yesterday - I think you may need more advice than any of us amateurs can give you.

Wishing you the best.

Barb

[antlers]

I have had different thoughts from everyone else regarding your son, so I have kept my mouth shut. I am no expert on childbearing, as I have had to start counseling for my D, but here goes. Different thoughts and opinions are always good Gineen. I'd appreciate you not holding back just because your thoughts and opinions are different. I don't think any of us here are experts at child rearing. Let's have it!

I never agreed with "give S space, let him go be with his mom and back off" SOMEBODY needs to take control here. He doesn't need space, he needs discipline! If it is interfering with his school, someone needs to take the reigns. Both your son and daughter are going to the opposite parents when one things they can't get anything by on the other. I would say one can't go running to the other ones house when they don't like the discipline. It seems that's what they are doing. They can't get away with at one house, so they go to the other's, once that welcome wears off,t he behavior isn't tolerated, they run back to the other parent.The situation is though that neither of us are in a position to stop them from going to the other parents house whenever they choose to. They are teenagers, not toddlers, and the courts will allow kids their age to go where they want to when it comes to parents...regardless of the legal status of the kids go. When you have one parent who refuses to be on the same page as the other when it comes to discipline and consistency...it makes the situation more difficult. We have joint custody of both kids, with me primary custodian of our son and her primary custodian of daughter. The GAL that she got involved recommended full custody of son to me, and the same with our daughter to her. My lawyer said the Judge woul ho along with those recommendations. I told my lawyer at mediation that joint custody was OK with me. I didn't want to be a hardass concerning the kids...even though she had tried her hardest to take them away from me.

They are still kids. They need control. Of course it would be so much better if you can coparent. But right now, I think they may be actually looking for one parent to take control. This is just my observation from what you write. Like I said, I am a newbie at the child-rearing thing, but yes, I know instances like this. My dad even did it. His parents divorced when he was 10. His dad was not so present, in and out, but when he didn't want to "deal" with his mom's discipline, he ran to his dad. Finally his mother put her foot down and he straightened up his act. I agree with everything you've said Gineen. They need discipline and consistency. Unfortunately, the situation is what it is. I feel like I've extended the olive branch concerning our kids. 

So, that's my advice, and kind of what I was thinking, but didn't want to interfere with the other's completely opposite opinion when they have much more parenting experience than I.

But, it sounds like you may need another suggestion. I did get in touch with her after our daughter left her home...unlike her when my son left my home. My only concern now is the well being of our kids. BTW, I always appreciate your responses...even when you're bustin' my balls. Thank you.