Indecision and the affair continues (Part 2)

[Lostforwords]

Nblost,

I see a reoccurring theme in your husbands behavior that appears to be affecting how you deal with things. Often through out your posts I read how your husband has made comments about how distant you were, how unloving you were, how the sex wasn't "good enough", or frequent enough. I didn't pull quotes from your posts as time is short, but this is a feeling I get from your posts. Almost a passive-aggressive guilt trip laying the blame for his actions on your feet.

The questions is though...do YOU feel that you were a good wife? Were you loving enough, there enough for him, etc. If you were an outsider looking at the marriage prior to all this, do YOU feel that you would see a wife giving it all?

[Nblost]

Starsky...good question.

I think I know because H told me when he first met OW. They met on a plane and she was coming to our area for a girls trip. He actually told me that she and her friends seemed like really fun women and it'd be cool if I could go out with them. I think he also mentioned at that point that one of them was going through a divorce. (I believe they swapped phone numbers at this point and H was also telling the group to give one of his friends a call who lived in the fun city the "girls" were visiting). At that point, he had no reason to lie.

I believe OW is separated because he was texting her at one point when I saw the texts and telling her he would stay with her versus at a hotel. I believe they stay at her house quite a bit when she doesn't have her kids. (Actually, I know this from seeing receipts for a gas station by her house which is nowhere near his work or typical hotel)

H also told me at one point that she and her "ex" get along well.

I guess I also believe she has some freedom because I know for a fact that they went on a 3 day vacation the week before Christmas (saw receipts for her ticket).

But, I can also tell from public data that she isn't officially divorced yet.

I actually don't think H has lied to me a lot when he actually says something...he's more a master of the "lies of omission" and he's admitted that. I think when he does say something (which is rare), it tends to be true although usually not the level of detail I would need to really know the truth.

I guess I'm not sure it matters anyway...I could text or email OW right now if I wanted to...but I've chosen not to confront her and give her that much power.

[Nblost]

LFW, good question.

1) I believe H is laying more blame on me right now than is fair. I think that's the affair fog erasing his good memories and convincing him our marriage has always been "bad".

2) But...no, if I had looked at our marriage a year ago...I would have said neither of us was trying. H has always felt our marriage was sex starved from his perspective. He also felt I wasn't an "intimate" person. OW is all of that.

I think the huge mistakes we made were:
--I told H that I thought our marriage was typical based on everyone I knew. We had three kids, busy lives and so it didn't surprise me that we weren't having sex more than once or so a week. I also felt like he wasn't putting any effort into treating me special...I can't remember the last time (maybe 10 years ago?) that he asked me on a "date". This upset H because he felt I wasn't listening to him or trying (I agree and I have apologized to him for this)

--H made the mistake of labelling me in a way that made me feel like a "sexless" person and made me insecure. I gave up and was feeling like I couldn't meet his needs.

We should have gone to therapy and come up with forward looking solutions. I think we also fit the mold of what MWD talks about in Sex Starved Marriage...a vicious cycle.

I think we both felt empty inside before his A. I know I could have been susceptible to one as well and I've told him that. We had become more like roommates and we were missing the connection.

Oddly, now that his A is happening...we actually sleep more entwined and hold each other much more than we ever did before the A. Our occasional "romantic" encounters are hotter. (I've read that's my hormones being more in overdrive) I am trying in a mellow way to be more affectionate and caring. H told me last week that it's interesting...it's like our roles have changed and I'm now the one that wants sex with him.

Since he's been with OW, he won't have sex with me (which I think is for the best) but we do everything else up to that point. Part of me wants to show him I can be different...but I know part of me also doesn't mind having "ammo" against the OW or the knowledge that even though he's with OW...he's still coming home and with his wife. While I don't think I would confront OW at any point, it helps me mentally to know I could likely throw a couple things at her that H hasn't told her. (I kind of doubt he tells her he comes home and gets naked with his wife)

Can anyone else tell I keep needing to vent? Thank goodness for this board!

[Lostforwords]

N,

Good answer for #1....and his portrayal of the marriage is definitely script fog behavior....

The #2 answer bothers me....I asked YOU how YOU felt about how you were as a spouse. But you then go into how your husband felt about everything. It started out good with admitting you weren't trying...and as those unlucky enough on this board know...marriage is constant work and when you stop trying and doing the work bad things happen.

The next paragraph really has me confused. First, most of the couples I know would consider once a week a blessing, but in reality it is up to the couple to find that balance. If one person wants it everyday and the other once a week...then once a week is it. That is life regretfully. But then you go into expressing yourself (bravo) in that you didn't feel special or cherished....and that upset your husband enough that you apologized. Why would you apologize for how you feel/felt?

The vicious circle of not working on the marriage hard enough....and the empty feeling that comes about from that cycle. Remember that cycle...and whatever happens down the road with your husband or another relationship....remember it takes work and learn from the past so you don't relive it.

The last two paragraphs.....Do you think that is a change in your overall relationship or just a change in how you are going about the relationship and he is reaping the fruits? As for the OW knowing about the quasi-sex, of course she does not know because she would drop him like a rotten tomato. For my friend I mentioned above, her husband had setup an affair and communication routine with her prior to her leaving so his girlfriend wouldn't know. He was getting the milk without taking care of the herd so to speak.

In the end though Nblost...I want to know more about YOU....not about him or his feelings on how the marriage was. I even would like to hear what you want out of a marriage?

[Starsky309]

Starsky...good question.

I think I know because H told me when he first met OW. They met on a plane and she was coming to our area for a girls trip. He actually told me that she and her friends seemed like really fun women and it'd be cool if I could go out with them. I think he also mentioned at that point that one of them was going through a divorce. (I believe they swapped phone numbers at this point and H was also telling the group to give one of his friends a call who lived in the fun city the "girls" were visiting). At that point, he had no reason to lie.

Possibly. But she probably did.

Please don't be naive re: your husband's honesty with you. I've never seen someone caught up in an affair yet that DIDN'T lie. Ever.


Starsky

[GH31]

NB,

You vent all you want. That's what this board is for.

And yes, I would bet the house that your husband has lied through his teeth to OW as well as you. Deception is essential for the propagation of an affair.

Take care,

GH31

[Nblost]

LFW, you are asking great questions.

To clarify one thing, I've never apologized to H for being upset about him not treating me well. I apologized to him that I didn't listen to him enough when he told me what he needed in the relationship. That came out wrong with how I positioned my sentences.

H would say once a week isn't enough (and I'd agree with him that it wasn't always once a week and I don't think we had the right level of intimacy to make that once a week as fantastic as you'd want). H is very HD although part of it may have been him searching for a lot more warmth, intimacy, etc.

As for how I feel...wow...you are right that I have been avoiding that. Here's how I felt in the marriage.

--H traveled for work or worked late almost every night. I felt ignored and like it was unfair that I had to leave my job (which pays more) to get home every night for daycare or the nanny.

--When H did get home, he often got back on his computer and wasn't very social with me.

--Most Friday nights, I had a hard time predicting if H would be home on time to do something social. So, we didn't do a lot of things socially with other couples or families (since we pretty much just had Saturday nights which defaulted more to family nights)

--H had stopped doing sweet, loving things for me. Gifts were usually picked up on the way home for anything like valentine's day or my birthday. For Christmas last year, he went to a department store to buy the robe I told him to buy with 1 minute to spare until the store closed on Christmas Eve.

--H doesn't really like to travel, I do. I planned all of our vacations.

--H wasn't athletic or in shape until his A. (well, he wasn't really that out of shape, but there were times where he was a bit overweight and also more lazy/sleeping in around the house). He does like doing certain sports and I'm not into some of them.

--H often bought things without telling me or asking. He was generally a pretty cheap guy, so not saying he over-spent and fortunately, we've always had good incomes. But, we didn't have a true partnership around money.

--H had always been great with the kids. He's fun and cares a lot about them. He never hesitated to do any childcare things and sometimes was more caring than me about staying up with them when they were sick, etc.

--H was always someone I could talk to. He was a good friend and we had a lot in common (similar families, professional lives, interests). However, with three kids and rare times where we spent time alone...we had stopped talking.

--H wasn't a guy who went off to play golf or watched a lot of sports, so I did appreciate he was open to doing things on weekends or being home.

--I felt like H was honest and a good person. (key word = was)

--H is funny/fun and I enjoyed introducing him to people as my husband. There was something about us that was a pretty good match when we were having fun.

The huge risk in trying to rebuild our marriage (assuming we have the chance) will be in getting H to meet my needs. He has always believed marriage should be very passionate if you've found the right person. He doesn't think it should be a lot of work.

So, should I try? Should I hold on knowing that on top of these issues...he's now had a 5 month long affair...most of it while I knew?

I think I am clinging to:

--We have three young kids who want their parents to be together.
--We have an underlying friendship (even through the A, some people have been amazed at how we can interact)
--Our families and lives are combined.
--I am insecure about my ability to find someone else and I like being married.

On your other questions about our relationship now...I think it's a combination of:
--H is still attached to me and wants to keep me somewhat happy
--H is horny
--I want to show him that I have sexual feelings.

I don't think it's bad. I'm the wife, and I don't feel used. If H is conflicted, I could see where it is coming from. I guess I feel this way because there is also an emotional element to it. He holds me afterwards and I feel like there are feelings there.

So, do I feel great about how our marriage was? No. I think that has partially helped me understand the A and somewhat forgive it (I haven't forgiven, but it's not like everything was perfect and H did something completely malicious). But, I do need things to change for me to be happy.

I read somewhere it would be easier to start over than mend the marriage. I can see that.

[Lostforwords]

N,
I disagree with that last statement and the statistics actually prove it. A greater percentage of second marriages fail than first marriages, an even great percent with the third marriage, etc. The reason in my mind is very clear....because people fail to do two things;

1-Define what they truly want out of a marriage
2-They never accept their part in the failed marriage

We now live in a society that doesn't reward personal responsibility....the schools are too hard, everybody is a winner, and hard work isn't rewarded but almost frowned upon. So why should it be different in a failed marriage...it is always the other spouses fault. I am not a religious man, but they had it right when they said he who hasn't sinned can through the first stone. Hence in our world the biggest step we can make is not blaming the runaway spouse, but instead looking in the mirror and say "What could I have done differently?". Now that doesn't mean you are the cause of his actions....just taking ownership in our part of what has happened. Someday your husband will have the same revelation about his actions....not right now because he is being distracted and living the happy live. IN all the cases of affairs on here that eventually happens sometimes in months, sometimes years regretfully. Their revelation time is out of our control.

What you posted above was by far the best posting you have done yet....truly DB'ing and saying what YOU want.

After three years on this site.....I have lots of great questions and every now and then an insightful opinion. The one thing I will tell you is truly embracing DB'ing will change your life. Not just how you attempt to win your husband back, but how you interact with others and see the world.

And yes Virginia...Sometimes people even get their spouse back...and a whole new marriage

[Nblost]

I think my biggest fear (hopefully irrational but definitely based on my increased insecurities since the A) is that H has somehow found someone better than me who can make him happier. He'll treat her better because she treats him better and off they'll go.

And, I end up alone with three kids.

People say I'm crazy to think this, but I think it's driving at least some (maybe a lot) of my fight for our marriage.

[imthemom]

N...
That statement hit home with me....right to the gut...
Im amways imagining that my H isnt interested in me because OW is doing what i should have...makeing him happy, and why would they give that up??...he treats her well, she treats him well...theyll live happily ever after...thats the most painfull..and if i were in YOUR position id fight like hell...