Indecision and the affair continues (Part 2)

[kml]

So.....how about a little creative staging? Next time H comes home there's a bouquet of red roses, a day or two old? If H asks, you can pause guiltily and then say "Oh, I bought them for myself" - lol, he won't believe you.

When he does get home - be dressed up and ready to go out "dancing with friend X". Look hot. Wave bye bye as you head out the door (even if you have to just sit at a starbucks and read, or go to a movie alone - let him think you're out dancing. If you looked especially good, he'll spend the evening envisioning other men hitting on you.)

Buy some new super-sexy undies. And only wear them when you're going out "dancing". Haha

[kml]

P.S. I'm glad you're in good shape financially. Do keep an eye on the credit cards though to make sure H isn't running up some big debt wining and dining OW that you might be stuck with half of.

[ANS]

Stay strong Nblost!

Like kml said, GAL, get your finances in order, do whatever you need to do to be independant.

Expect the best, plan for the worst, and prepare to be surprised. -- Denis Waitley

I think the kids are powerful in this. Maybe I'm being overly dramatic, but I think looking your 4, 8 and 10 year old daughters in the faces and telling them you are leaving is going to be very hard. I'm sure any age is hard...but our girls are at such an idealistic stage. :-(

You're not being dramatic at all. My eldest daughter just got married this summer. I walked her down the aisle with pride, and with the knowledge that no matter what gets thrown in her and her H's way, M is a lifelong commitment. My W has a different take on it, but I'm still committed.

Or maybe I just should be committed

P.S. I'm not trying to take anything away from our courageous DB-ers who couldn't convince their spouses to commit. Ultimately, it takes commitment on both sides.

[MynameisMZ]

"Expect the best, plan for the worst, and prepare to be surprised. -- Denis Waitley " This is it NB.

IMHO I'd stop pointing out the readings. He's in a space where it really doesn't matter how much you know, what the stats are..... He has to play this out. I think you have no choice but to let go.

I know this $u#ks!<<<<HUGS>>>>

There is something more in this for him than just another woman....things you've said about him make me think this.
She is NOT the answer to what he is seeking in himself. He just thinks she is right now. The really sad thing will be if he loses you.

[kml]

If you find the right opportunity, though, you can always remind him that a woman who will cheat WITH him will also cheat ON him lol.

[GH31]

NB,

My heart goes out to you, it really does.

H said maybe we should separate.

So he can carry on his affair with OW without any interference.

He doesn't feel like he can give up his A.

Of course he doesn't. He is addicted, completely and totally - at six months into his affair he will be utterly lost in thick, pea soup fog.

He'll be too bitter.

All about him and completely textbook i.e. as per the script.

We started talking about separation and I said I'll support that.

Good.

I did point out the challenge he has in comparing his "old" wife of 12 years to a new affair. H still doesn't seem to "get it".

OK.

You have identified a behaviour which doesn't work i.e. the “pointing things out”. So stop doing it. Remember the No. 1 rule of DBing – do what works, reject what doesn't work. And rule No. 2 is remember Rule No. 1.

He isn’t going to “get it” for some time. His brain is flooded with love chemicals which unfortunately makes sound judgment impossible until further notice. He literally is bodily incapable of “getting it” and will be until/unless the affair ends.

He claims that he and the OW have had to deal with reality in their relationship.

Seriously, let them. The reality of their relationship will be far different than their respective fantasies are currently. There’s nothing like a good, hard dose of reality to poison fantasy and if the person is deeply lost in the fantasy then it is necessary. Think addicts hitting “rock bottom”.

The reality of not having you, his loving wife, around to meet his needs that OW never could is something he hasn’t yet had to deal with.

H also doesn't know when OW will get divorced.

Does he know if OW and her hubby are getting divorced?

I think I feel better knowing he's conflicted and has some sadness.

His being conflicted is good. A good sign.

H also is hoping we can still do things as a family

Those, among others, are the needs I was talking about, the ones which OW could never fill.

He wants to have his cake and eat it too. Lovingly ensure that he doesn’t get to have his cake.

… and maybe go to counseling once a month while we are separated

Forget about it if the affair is still in place. If he is still having his A whilst you’re in counseling he’ll just lie to you and the counselor. People in affairs get extraordinarily good at lying to everyone about everything. They even get good at deceiving themselves. That is consistent with virtually every situation I have ever read on boards like this.

Thanks all for your support.

You’re more than welcome. Please take care of yourself and your little girls, and stay strong.

[Nblost]

Thanks GH! All makes sense. I keep hoping the six month mark may mean the fog could start to lift...but I think it's a challenge because they are "sort of" long distance and I think H's job and her kids keep them apart some of the time he is in her city.

I guess I do sense a subtle change and I think it is coming from the thought of losing me and the family.

August--affair started/secret. H could only say, "I am dead inside, I need to get out of here"
September--affair discovered. H thought separating made a lot of sense. He seemed upbeat about getting a fun bachelor pad.
October--affair continues. H said he'd start looking for his own place when I said I couldn't do this anymore. He didn't do anything.
November--H said he loved me and the kids and didn't want to move.
December--same
January--see above

I think everyone on here is right that I need to make him see the reality of living alone.

H has always wanted a "string" back to me in case the affair didn't work out. I think having us go to counseling once a month may be that string.

I got some of my GAL back yesterday...back at work, fun lunch with a coworker, hung out with kids, surfed around on match.com (I'm not going to date, but it's fun to look and helps to see there are other fish in the sea). I think over the holidays and being on our trip with H...couldn't do as much of that.

One place where I feel like I'm not totally DB-ing...H said it seemed like I had gotten more distant during his affair which seemed like how our marriage always was. I'm not going overboard, but I'm trying to stay a bit warmer rather than being hard core LRT. For example, H was texting us a lot yesterday and I wasn't overly responsive...but at night, I said, "I miss having you home, good night"...he responded with several more texts about what he was doing and then said, "I miss being there too".

I guess it's DB-ing if it's a 180...although I feel like I'm walking a fine line with it so don't want to be a total 180.

I am hanging in there...I feel sad thinking about separating, but yet, I think I also welcome a move in a direction. And, I do keep coming back to what you are all saying...he'll never wake up if he can stay on his foggy fence.

[GH31]

Hi NB,

I keep hoping the six month mark may mean the fog could start to lift...

It’s good to have hope, but hope itself isn’t a plan.

I think it's a challenge because they are "sort of" long distance and I think H's job and her kids keep them apart some of the time he is in her city.

They’re having an affair and they’re addicts. They will find the time to have an affair.

My W’s EA/PA was as long distance as you can possibly get. We lived in Australia and the other person in England, 10,000 miles apart. It didn’t stop them.

I guess I do sense a subtle change and I think it is coming from the thought of losing me and the family.

The reality is beginning to dawn on him.

Lovingly allow the Reality Stick to do him as much damage as possible. If and when the affair ends he will likely be a total wreck for some time but it's in this broken state that human beings are most likely to make the changes necessary to have a thriving marriage.

I think everyone on here is right that I need to make him see the reality of living alone.

Please don’t try to “make him see it” not literally, rather allow him to see it.

H has always wanted a "string" back to me in case the affair didn't work out. I think having us go to counseling once a month may be that string.

So did my W and she went nuts when I took it away from her. We were living in Europe at the time and she moved in with her affair partner, all the while maintaining regular contact with me, as well as sex.

She went nuts when I told her I wouldn’t have it anymore, moved back to Australia and severed all contact with her.

Your husband wants a “string” back to you because you’re his loving wife and the mother of his children. His “family” in other words.

I got some of my GAL back yesterday...back at work, fun lunch with a coworker, hung out with kids, surfed around on match.com (I'm not going to date, but it's fun to look and helps to see there are other fish in the sea). I think over the holidays and being on our trip with H...couldn't do as much of that.

Good.

But tread carefully looking around on dating sites. When we’re done over by our spouses the temptation for us to do the same is enormous.

One place where I feel like I'm not totally DB-ing...H said it seemed like I had gotten more distant during his affair which seemed like how our marriage always was.

“DBing” is whatever works.

I'm not going overboard, but I'm trying to stay a bit warmer rather than being hard core LRT. For example, H was texting us a lot yesterday and I wasn't overly responsive...but at night, I said, "I miss having you home, good night"...he responded with several more texts about what he was doing and then said, "I miss being there too".

If you’re satisfied with how this approach is working for you, keep doing it.

I guess it's DB-ing if it's a 180...although I feel like I'm walking a fine line with it so don't want to be a total 180.

Again, “DBing” is whatever works. A 180 is one of several approaches in the arsenal. But, for it to be worth doing, it has to work.

I am hanging in there...I feel sad thinking about separating, but yet, I think I also welcome a move in a direction. And, I do keep coming back to what you are all saying...he'll never wake up if he can stay on his foggy fence.

No he will not. I can promise you that.

[Nblost]

Oh, I think you misinterpreted what I meant by their time to have the A. Yes, they clearly make the time to have the A and it's I'm sure their top priority...I just meant that unfortunately, they don't have unlimited access to each other...so I think it'll take longer for the fantasy to wear away. When H says they've had to deal with reality, I have to laugh inside because their six combined kids haven't entered the equation yet. (sorry, but when you have three kids under 10...that's a pretty big factor in life)

Yep, I feel like I've been good about not showing him books or articles I've read. He knows I have several books about affairs on my ipad and he's welcome to read them if he wants to. I do need to be careful that I don't throw too many facts/stats at him. I don't mind that I've done a small amount of that recently...I wlll back off.

I'm not sure exactly what works and what doesn't. I think it's a DB approach with a certain amount of flexibility.

I agree too...the enabling has to stop and hopefully he's starting to think more about the reality of splitting. (Truly too, if we split and he doesn't wake up? That is a huge sign for me that I need to start moving on too)

Thanks again...your insights are hugely helpful.

[kml]

GH31 gave you some excellent advice but I just want to comment on one part:

Originally Posted By: Nblost
I did point out the challenge he has in comparing his "old" wife of 12 years to a new affair. H still doesn't seem to "get it".

OK.

You have identified a behaviour which doesn't work i.e. the “pointing things out”. So stop doing it. Remember the No. 1 rule of DBing – do what works, reject what doesn't work. And rule No. 2 is remember Rule No. 1.

He isn’t going to “get it” for some time. His brain is flooded with love chemicals which unfortunately makes sound judgment impossible until further notice. He literally is bodily incapable of “getting it” and will be until/unless the affair ends.

He definitely won't "get it" right now - but don't think that those comments don't enter his brain. It's like planting a seed. It's not going to sprout right away - but if he ever comes out of the fog, you may be surprised which of your comments really stuck. I think it's okay to point out to him that this is typical behavior - depressed, temporarily relieved by the brain chemicals and ezxcitement of an affair, but in the long run, he'll be back in the same place if he doesn't work on his stuff. So why not work on his stuff with his loving faithful wife and family?

He will deny it, but believe me, the occasional statement like that can have a gradual effect. Also just stating that it is possible to fall back in love with your spouse is something they need to hear once.