Indecision and the affair continues (Part 2)

[Nblost]

Thanks GH, I think you and MZ have valuable perspectives. GH, looks like your W eventually returned?

I think I've been hoping the holidays and our counseling session tomorrow could change things and we wouldn't need to separate. The reality is settling in that we very likely will need to. I also feel like H is trying to turn things on me so that it seems like I'm now the one initiating a separation.

I am going to go for a run and try to get a positive mental attitude going for tonight when H gets home (from a bowl game). We'll then go to work and then our session tomorrow at 4:00. I need to have an open mind for that session and see where it goes.

Last night, I got too sad/weepy and it is so hard not to get negative/angry about our sitch. H didn't help by cracking a couple jokes in the middle of our discussion. (There are times where he clearly seems in a fog or MLC)

[MynameisMZ]

Cracking jokes? Yep, still in the fog.

[Nblost]

<sigh>...MZ, I'm sure you are right.

Went for my run so am feeling better.

Plus, he really hasn't acknowledged the hurt/pain he has caused. I don't think he's capable of processing right now.

I'm probably throwing money in the wind going to counseling tomorrow...but maybe it helps put us on some type of path. I guess at a minimum, maybe H will open up a bit if he's asked the right questions or knows we're spending money to be there.

I told him some of the stuff I've read about affairs and him putting up walls and being in a fog last night. He seemed mildly curious, but I'm sure would dismiss it if it made him look bad or irrational.

[GH31]

Hi NB,

Yes she did and we had 2 children (I know without any doubt that they're mine). The story is a long and bitter one.

Listen, your marriage doesn't stand the remotest chance of recovery whilst OW and your husband have any contact at all. The A has to end and your husband has to get over it before you can even begin to rebuild.

Any counseling whilst an A is in progress is useless I'm afraid.

How long has this A been going on and when did you find out about it?

Who else knows other than you, H and that piece of filth he's seeing?

[MynameisMZ]

When we were where you are now my H told me "the attraction is intense" and that he loved her. After I issued my LRT he remained in a fog and did the very same things your H is doing. Not listening fully, cracking jokes, stonewalling. It was like he just felt he was the cat's meow. He even said to me, "I'm handsome, charismatic." I couldn't believe it and so I replied, "And what am I, chopped liver?" He was just feeling his oats. He had a very tough childhood and I'm convinced it had every thing to do with his A. OW was a bully, a real life grown up "mean girl" and she PICKED him. That is the biggest part. It was HOW she made him FEEL about himself. Those "adoring" eyes....blah blah blah....

And all this was going on while I thought it was only an EA. Actually I couldn't believe it hadn't gotten physical, but I REALLY wanted to believe in my H.

Anyway, speed 18 months later and the fog did lift, OW did move away. He wasn't really coming out of it until she left. So, it really is true that the A really has to be OVER.

I like what Abbey has had to say all though this.. They have "alien brain."

Now, my H cringes when he thinks of her. He is deeply ashamed and now realizes how whacked she was. He can even see how she manipulated him, plotted him against me. Her insidious comments putting me down. He says it was like he was caught up in this fantasy game and couldn't get out.

Listen NB, it's not over. You are in the midst of this. It is critical now that you employ all the DB techniques you can. Did you say you are getting a coach? I know you are doing counseling today, but perhaps a DB coach is the ticket right now......for YOU and you only. He's in that fog....yeah THAT one and you can't compete with ow now. Doesn't mean you won't get your M back, you just really need to know what this part is all about.

[MynameisMZ]

"I also feel like H is trying to turn things on me so that it seems like I'm now the one initiating a separation."

You are facing a tough decision. He may or may not hear it, but perhaps with the help of the counselor you can convey that you don't want a separation. The goal will be to have him own it, that if you separate it is because he refuses to give up the A.
Even if he doesn't get it now, it will be something he will be able to reflect on in the future and help him take responsibility for how much he has hurt you and the children. He's not in that space right now.

Like I said, I told my H I wanted him, our M, our family, but I couldn't do it if he didn't choose us. Staying was not going to be an option if he didn't end it. See, I KNEW in my heart that they would have burned each other out. It was that much of a fantasy. He was going to have to experience the reality.

For about 2 weeks he was telling me he wanted us and our M and then he would run to her. I found all the IM chats and e-mails.
It was unbelievable! We were ML like crazy and he was telling me how much he loved me and wanted us and then he'd turn around and tell her how crazy I was. We're STILL working that crap out.

In my case, it didn't hurt that she staged a crime against herself, took pictures of it, and walked in to the office and said, "Control your crazy wife." I had heard they get desperate and do stupid things, they start to reveal their true colors.

[GH31]

The fog and deranged, crazy behaviour will persist for as long as the affair does. His brain is flooded with love chemicals which make proper judgement and decision making impossible - it's literally a drug in his blood.

[Lostforwords]

Nblost,

I have been reading your situation for awhile and you have gotten some excellent advice. I also don't usually chime in to the women on here as I don't feel my communication is the best when interacting with women on here. With you though I feel compelled to reply. I have though two perspectives to share. One is mine and the other is one I witnessed first.

For my experiences...during the first affair I walked a line similar to the one you are walking...acting like a loving spouse and trying some marital counseling. The counseling was useless as I look back in hindsight because my wife didn't want to be there. As for being the loving spouse thinking that would win her back.....all that really did was enable the situation. Eventually I focused completely on galing, myself, and my kids. Treated her as a friend, but nothing more.

During the second affair I did the same even though it was completely hidden under the guise of friendship, but I always new something was wrong.

During the third affair my wife left as it was the only option left and was something that had to happen. I focused on myself and taking care of the family.....detached completely because what she was doing was not in my families best interest. I could no longer let myself or my kids be second fiddle. It also wasn't until this time that my wife started to realize what she was giving up....until she left she always had me as a security rail to fall back on...and I am worth more than that.

For my friend, she also started doing what you are. While she was thrown out of her house, she still communicated daily with her husband and was there for sexual encounters with her husband when he requested it. After a few months of that she realized that she was just a second fiddle to him. A booty call for when he was down and unhappy for a second. The sex wasn't going to bring him back and using sex to keep the connection with him was only enabling his affair. Eventually she ceased sexual relations and limited communication. That really bothered him....really bothered him as he expected her to sit waiting for him. She gal'ed and got a life of her own. While this happened he moved on to a second affair, which eventually ended. It was after this affair ended that he realized what he had given up because his wife wasn't right there for him. I still worry for her as I don't believe he has reached the end of his journey, but that is her issue to deal with now.

In conclusion, until you severe the ties he will not realize what he has. I am not saying to give up on your marriage....more I am saying set boundaries that are based on reality. Would you sleep with a man who was in a relationship with another woman? The truth is right now you are doing that. He is in a relationship with the OW....and you are in reality now the OW.

Yes...he will find ways to turn everything into your fault. That is pretty much the script for any affair. It is mentally easier to blame everyone else for your actions than accept responsibility for them. It is for this reason, that you need to detach and gal. While you do have your part in the collapse of the marriage, it will be hard to reconcile until he accepts his responsibilities in what has happened.

BE strong, gal, and set some boundaries that lay with your personal values......The road will get easier...I promise you that.

[Nblost]

Wow, thanks everyone. These words of wisdom are exactly what I need to stay strong in counseling today. I agree...the A has to end and he can't continue to be enabled.

I also agree that this isn't over. H came back from his football game yesterday and was attracted to me. He also helped do several things for the kids this morning and he cancelled a work meeting to make it to counseling today. I think it's likely all an effort to remain on his fence...but at least he's not completely on OW's side of the fence yet.

GH, affair started at the end of July 2011. (woman he met on an airplane) I found out 9/15/2011. H was completely different once the A started (stopped having sex with me, told me he needed to leave, was cold/hostile, etc.) I found out by checking his cell phone records and reverse looking up the phone number that he was constantly texting with. Upon discovery, we went to one counseling session and our counselor told him he needed to be honest with me. That night, he told me it was a EA/PA and he couldn't give it up. His constant theme has been...he can't give up the A, but he doesn't know if he wants to give up the marriage. However, he has now taken the A more secretive and he took OW on at least one vacation in December (which he won't admit).

I've told a few of my friends about the A for support. Only one of H's friends knows. (He's a mutual friend who noticed I was upset and pushed me to tell him what was wrong). So, H is also under pressure that he's still in a very secret world. And, H is the type of guy who everyone LOVES--he's funny, giving, sweet...so, I have to think on some level...he's also worried about disclosure. (and, "unfortunately" for him, I'm the type of wife that people also like...I've always been there for him, I'm fun, nice, I can hang out with the guys and they can be themselves, etc...no one is going to understand what he's done)

And, our three little girls don't know what he's done and he's commented that we could try to recover from this and hopefully they'll never feel the impact.

So, I have a foggy/crazy/lying H...but am I in the worst possible situation? Not really...I think there's still a chance for us.

I talk to a DB coach at lunchtime today (prior to the MC session). Should be good to get her perspective too.

[GH31]

How about you? How long would you be prepared to share your husband with another woman?

This is extraordinarily tough, I know. Been there and done that for 18 months then struggled with violent thought towards my wife for a couple of years afterwards. Good luck with the DB coach. Mine (Jodie) really, really helped me in my darkest hours.

Hang in there and love those three little girls. Your H is incapable at the moment of realizing what he's doing to you.