It is very important to get a professional's diagnosis. Most doctors will take your concerns into consideration, but they will help you decide the best course of action (ie:meds, lifestyle and/or homeopathic remedies)
I have suffered from depression since I was 16. I've tried 7 different types of AD meds and usually only need them for about 6 months to get a handle on the situation. My worst depression was after my 1st son (post-partum psychosis) and doctor's didn't believe me when I said I was really suffering, so I went unmedicated for 2 years (during which time I saw about 10 different GYN's and me and my H walked out of most of them) It took a year of heavy prescriptions to get passed that stage.
In my current sitch, I *know* that I am depressed (I've learned what it feels like for me and how it manifests in my life.) I have chosen not to do prescription drugs, but to do the homeopathic path. Here is what I do... this was decided between my GYN and my cardiologist. Of course, I am NOT a doctor and you should always check with your doctor about the best course of action.
Take St.Johns Wort, daily. Take 50,000 IU of Vitamin D3 weekly. Your body will best absorb this dose if you break it up to 25,000 twice a week. Because you can usually only find the pills in 500 IU or 200 IU, you end up having to take 50 at a time- but they are really small and you can swallow about 10 at a time.
After I started this regimen, it took about 3 days to notice that I could get up without crying each morning. Now don't get me wrong, I can still get happy and sad- but I don't fall into despair like I used to with my current sitch.
Depression doesn't have to be a stigma. It doesn't mean you are broken. It makes me mad that it's sometime thrown around as the 'in thing' to be at the moment- because I know what it truly means to suffer from *real* diagnosed depression.
I will pray that you find some peace with the possibility of this diagnosis, but also hope that you realize you are IN NO WAY alone and have no reason to be embarrassed.
M-31, H-31 T-9, M-7 S-6, s-20mth sep 8/1/11 ILYNILWY 11/29/11 Creating separation papers. Discover H has feelings for BFF, she does too 1/11/12 H moves out 1.20.12
On the other hand, when women leave the R it just seems rare that the woman will come back after she's done finding herself. It makes me wonder just how much hope there really is in busting the D when it is the W who has left (emotionally, anyway).
The other observation I've made is that when women do come back it seems like it is only when they have actually left the R both emotionally and more specifically, physically. Sort of like they realize that they want their family and home back and don't like living on their own.
My wife left both emotionally and physically. When she decided to work on things, she still did not want to set foot in the house that she had left. In fact, she did not set foot in it for months. She came back to the R, but NOT to the house that she had physically left. She actually quite liked her apartment and the new space she had made for herself. She just decided that *I* was missing as part of her life. We ended up buying a new home after we had pieced for several months.
Originally Posted By: 2thepoint
This is when my friend said, "I'm worried about you, 2thepoint. I hate to tell you this but I think you are depressed and I'm worried. You need to get out of this funk you are in and do something productive."
There is nothing wrong with being depressed. I was depressed out of my gourd. What matters is how you handle it. Confront it head on, not like an ostrich. If you don't want to take meds, there are lots of other alternatives -- look up cognitive-behavioral therapy, the self-help book Feeling Good, regular exercise, regular GAL/social activities, proper diet and sleep. The more activities and exercise you do and the more you get OUT there and not be alone or by yourself in your new place, the more mood momentum you will gain.
Me-53 W-49 D22,D18,D15 T-Since-12/2001 Married-9/2004 She Moved Out-5/28/2010 Piecing start-04/2011 Now-together Thread http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2079304
I went back and read part of your just closed thread. Happy belated birthday and Merry Christmas!
Re: your W's planned rendezvous #4 with OM:
1) You cannot control what she does, so do not try.
2) You CAN control how you allow others to treat you and whether you allow them to cross the boundary of what is acceptable to you.
3) It is possible to go dark with kids -- I have 3 girls and went dark with my W. At some point in our sitch, I told her that the situation was no longer working for me and that, in order for me to move on, I would not respond to her calls or texts unless they were emergencies about the kids. I stuck to no contact pretty well for a few months and broke it to let her know that I was intending to file for divorce.
I am not suggesting you do this (or not do this). Just that no contact IS possible with kids if you really want it for yourself.
Me-53 W-49 D22,D18,D15 T-Since-12/2001 Married-9/2004 She Moved Out-5/28/2010 Piecing start-04/2011 Now-together Thread http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2079304
2tp if you are feeling sad most of the time had changes in appetite sleep lost interest in things you liked thinking about death feeling tired you might be depressed. Do not use your family doctor see a psychiatrist. They have better knowledge. Bustorama is also correct cognitive therapy has good results with depression. If you were not depressed before the sitch chances are that the sitch triggered it. Lack of sleep like 25 said can make things worst. If you are prescribed mess it can be temporary so do not worry about that. Who cares about stigma at this point we are about to lose our Ws family and all that we care for. So take care of yourself first.Besides if you get treated you won't be depressed and noone will know that u are, right? So no stigma
The second question all I know is that man fair better after aD than woman.
Hang in there my friend
M 53 D 20 Separated 6/22/11 moved out 10/24 Together 26 yrs Married 16 W Filed for D 7/21/11 Served 9/6/11 D final 8/28/12
“Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be.”
Thanks everyone for your perspectives on depression. I guess my next step is to seek a professional opinion and then go from there. I'll also do some research on alternative remedies and methods for treating depression. I'll keep you posted on what I discover. The issue on stigma is a thorny one that I'll need to work on.
Regarding the concept of the DB success rate for men who's W's walked away from the M emotionally but the H was the one who actually left physically (my sitch), I'd really like to get some more perspective on that.
25 made the point in a different thread that women who leave the M are less likely to return then men who leave. I am beginning to have my doubts that there really is going to be much hope for me considering the particularly dynamics of my sitch.
I see stories of the WAW who moved out but came back, the WAH who moved out but came back. What I don't see much evidence of is the WAW who's H was the one to move out and then finding a way to reconcile. I'm sure those stories exist, I just haven't seen many of them.
Me51 W53 S17 S14 M22 T25 Bomb-9/11; A-11/11; I move out 11/11
It's easy to find our bottom, it is our top that requires cultivation.
Every rough spot adds to our emotional constitution. -Barney Fife
Hey 2TP, good for you for being open to speaking with a professional about this. It sounds like that is a big step for you so congratulations on atleast being open to the idea of taking medication and/or herbal remedies.
M:(f) 35 W: 45 3 dogs and 2 cats T: 9 years 9/30/11 I love you, but I'm not in love with you OW confirmed 12/23/11
I mentioned a statistic that said WAWs are less likely to return than WAH's....I cannot recall where I read that, so maybe it's not even true.
But I theorized based on my observations and personal experience why that MIGHT be...
Unlike Rick, I do NOT think men fare better than women after divorce EXCEPT financially they tend to recover faster (maybe that's what Rick meant?). Men tend to retain 2/3 of their income for only themselves whereas most women with children take "pay cuts" to care for more people.
But that is more due to men usually earning more to begin with, and that custody usually goes to the wife so she has more costs than he does.
Supposedly, Women who leave tend to regret it less than men who leave. Maybe that's why they return less often. Women report more 'happiness post divorce" than men but I wish I knew if they were asking women WHO HAD LEFT versus LBSers...
My THEORY and it's only that, (and it's only about wives/mothers)
is b/c women tend to weigh out our feelings of love versus dislike...on a "scale."
And it's NOT as if we leave when the scales tip some. We seem ONLY to leave when there is NOTHING left on the "Love" side of things...
If the man is a good provider or father, it's much harder to leave b/c there is SOMETHING on the "pro" side of the scale. He has to really have a lot of negatives for her to leave b/c the scale really has to be one sided.
Of course, if he's underemployed or not a great dad, plus not a great mate, that makes it a clearer choice.
My fil is a great example. He has had 3 wives leave him (yeah, he was a super good catch....)
On the upside, He is well educated, looks like Paul Newman, works his butt off, made good money (but was cheap with it) and is a war hero.
But he drank too much and was hyper controlling and chronically spouting criticisms that I don't even know if he realized were negative...he needed better social skills for sure.
Each wife loved him at one point. Each wife left him when there was no love left. NOT one of them returned to him even when he made changes to get them back. He finally figured it "Might be HIM"...
He met wife#4 but she was a widow who had been HAPPILY married for decades. She knew healthy ways of resolving conflict!!
So it was from her, HE learned them...when she threatened to leave him b/c of his drinking and abusive nuttiness
HE STOPPED in his tracks. I think he thanked her for the warning but I'm not sure. I just know she warned him BEFORE she stopped loving him, and they are still together now after 18 years. He reports being "happier than ever in his life" and they married when He was 62 so yes, people can change.
But I bet all the other wives had warned him too. For sure the one previous wife I knew, "J", DID warn him...more than once, not to hit or drink or berate her so much.
He hit her once and she said "if you ever do that again, I'll leave you". 2 years later he got drunk and hit J. I really believe he had no recall of it. He even asked her what happened. J said "You hit me, and I'm done."
And J WAS done!...
My fil changed a lot after he lost J...and it made me frustrated to see that now, he "gets it, J...so take him back!"
But she calmly told ME, "I cannot go back to that life anymore...I took it for so long that I wasn't even me anymore. And the mere chance of him reverting to what we had, is too much for me to handle. It's not worth it b/c even when things were good they did not make up for when things were bad. I am happy now, without him." And she was and still is.
But like I said, HE changed---So that when he finally met his present wife HE was ready to do what was needed for a healthy marriage.
Financially my fil did better than ALL his ex wives combined. But they were all glad to be divorced from him...
His present wife and he are both independently wealthy and I sometimes think that an independent woman who does not "need" him
is the type he cannot mistreat...so maybe that's a factor too. He's also a lot less cheap and isn't waiting for a rainy day to live well. I KNOW wife #4 taught him that b/c when he saw her home compared to his they agreed completely, to move into HERS and rebuild their own...he had made his first 3 wives work like slaves to live in an OLD house with problems, and he was a millionaire.
The relevant question is, what types of women DO COME BACK and why?
it's not simple but I think we can say that there are a few things in common with WAWs who return.
1) they ALL believe their marriages can improve...how they decide that is mostly dependent on the h's response I think...and the WAWs openess to believing in change.
2) there is some love left deep down, for their h's....OR they have kids together.
3) unknown variables...e.g., maybe the WAW wasn't sure to begin with or was testing her h to see her value to him OR
maybe she thought there was a better OM out there but there wasn't... OR
maybe she was having an MLC and worked it out...
My sister left her h, and returned to him when he said and did things she needed from him and had needed from him AND had communicated to him, for about 2 years of their 7 year marriage. Only when she left and met OM did he make serious efforts to make their marriage a priority.
Within months of her return, he began to backslide and didn't take too kindly to reminders from her about his previous promises.... so she left him again, for good...NO looking back. She is happy now BUT she has confessed that if she had worked harder on THAT FIRST marriage things could have worked out. That doesn't exactly mean she "regrets" leaving him b/c she also feels they were very very different...(and too young)
2-and whoever else is interested *****
HERE ARE THE WORDS OF A WAW (to Denver) when he was frustrated about why his WAW wasn't taking him back fast enough
b/c after all, HE had changed...( And I believe him) and she had found an OM in their separation...
The DB moderator posted it on "Classics." I know many of the women
echo these sentiments for the men who feel shocked ("shocked, I tell you!") that their wives won't return
when the h has said he is "sorry" or has made some changes... Here is what this WAW said...
"I know what you're going through is tough. And I think you've gotten some really good advice here over all. I just want to chime in from a W's perspective.
When I read your interactions with your wife, I could so easily identify with your wife's feelings/words/sentiments. I have been in her position in my M.
I was the ignored, the devalued, the one who was treated as less than. I even got chills when she talked about the FB issues, because I've been there and done that, bought the t-shirt. Of course, my H went a step further and cheated, then left, adding an extra crunchy layer of goodness to my sitch.
One of the things that I have tried my hardest not to do, is not to engage with another man. Not just because of my marriage vows, but because I knew that when I truly engaged in any type of R with another man, it would make it that much harder to ever reconcile with my H.
Because being treated differently (better) than the way he treated me would lessen him so much in my eyes.
So, I can see where your W is coming from. When you've been mistreated to the point where you actually let go of your R enough to let another person into your heart or bed or whatever, it takes a boatload of work to get back on a page where you're recommitted to being with your S - and those uncertainties that she's expressed to you, I don't know if you truly, truly fathom how deep they run.
Six months of getting back on a page where you treat her the way that any wife should be treated does not even scratch the surface of the years, the intrinsic devaluing that occurs when you're systematically mistreated for such a stretch of time. And I promise you that while you have recommitted and worked for 6 months, your W has simply been trying to get to a point where she can even buy into the changes, where she can even think that you might have changed and not scoff at the thought. Because when you build up hope again and again and again in your H and he crushes it again and again and again, you develop a thick skin, a protective doubt, a conditioned response to even the slightest, grainiest seed of hope. You are taught that when you hope, you will be disappointed. When you try, you will fail. You are taught that you will never be what he wants and it is hard to shake what you have come to believe is reality. And for the changes that you've made to have come only when she walked away and OM became competition, I can definitely see how she can doubly doubt that you truly want to be in a M with her, and not just to win.
Even you today say that you are not sure that you don't just want to win.
Step 1 - figure that sh!t out ASAP. Because if you actually do manage to convince her that you really do want her and really have recommitted to her and you actually just want to win, you'll put her through hell." ___
2, and others, hope this helps. I can sum it up by saying that if you can muster up some real empathy for your wives and how they got where they are now
you'll be better able to see why YOU MUST BE MORE PATIENT THAN YOU EVER THOUGHT YOU COULD BE b/c if your wife feels like this ^^^ wife did, you've been tougher to live with and harder on her than you ever though you could be...
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
2 Man - I would really caution against the depression diagnosis, or the meds. Who the hell wouldn't be depressed going through what you are?
You soul is hurting, and medication is going to mask it in some form. That's going to help you?
There are so many other ways out of this. You have such a strong spiritual base. Start there. Take the pain by being brutally honest and that's tough but by doing that you will allow your soul to evolve. The strongest swords are forged in the most intense heat. That's really what we are here for.
Instead of meds, stay with the yoga you tried on your vacation. Try Bikram yoga. I do it, and trust me it's not the yoga guys laugh about as being pansy like, gay, etc. This is 90 minutes in 104 degree heat at 40% humidity. It is like opening yourself up, and purging everything. It heals you from the inside out and is good for your soul, but also good for all of your bodily systems. I gauranty you will feel on top of the world after each class and this will carry over into every apsect of your life.
Another thing I have realized in the past few days and I hope it is something I can carry with me for the rest of my days. If we think in terms of how we can help others all the time, it makes us better men in this world. I was reflecting on my M to date and how we got to the bomb and I realized that so much of the anger I carried was because I was thinking of how my wife's actions were hurting me. And they were tough and hurtful but what if I had been thinking in terms of her more than personal protection from hurt? Maybe the chain reaction of stress would have been reduced so much and better answers found. Let's say you're hurt by your W's action then you get pissed, bitter and defensive. How is an environment for healing created when things start off like this? My point is that you know yourself, you know what you need to be fulfilled. It probably isn't too much. Maybe if we can take the focus of us and learn to think in terms of giving, i.e our first thought is how can we help, then maybe the environment we want to see to heal our M can be created.
For example, I was a bundle of anger towards my W for years, pre and post bomb. It hit me to give up the self, the focus on what I want and just be here to help others. Not in the Mother Theresa extreme but just simply thinking in terms of how can I help. With my wife I can see her just relaxing more and more and allowing me to do more and more for her. The more I think of her first the more I have been seeing so much more clearly what her needs are and why she's where she is. I see her thawing across the board, our family unit becoming stronger, and her starting to lean on me in her struggles. That could not have happened in the early bombing run and certainly not if I had kept my anger white hot.
And you may see real progress like you have but will still get the moments that will seem like backsliding. What I trying to say is that when you have a mindset of giving to others first then when these backslides occur, your reaction may not be one that backslides as well, and your W will feel more comfortable each time. For example, tonight all of our sons were out for new years so it was just me and the W. She helped with the plans for the night, was pleasant, warm, lying next to me on the couch, and came close to feeling like the bomb had never happened. Mind you, this would have been impossible three months ago. At the end of the night I was complimenting her on the way she handled something with our youngest and she sarcastically brought up something I said six months ago when I questioned her actions as a mother. I could have said all the things about how her actions were in fact pretty bad at the time in terms of being a Mom and W, and I could have defended myself about how I had some reasons to think that then, but I thought in terms of her first, her needs, her crisis, not me, not how it affected me, but her. I simply apologized and said I didn't handle this sitch very well back then. She needed to vent and I let her do it. Trust me, three months ago this would have been a barn burner.
I'm not giving you my personal examples so I can talk about me but to show some real life live fire sitches that maybe illustrate the principles I'm suggesting.
And BTW the way I'm not implying you're self-centered and should adjust your ways. In fact I think you have a very string spiritual base and quite a good heart.
25's post was amazing as per usual. So much to chew on in there. Really saw a lot of my H in and I in there, though it was supposed to be WAW.
What stuck to me the most was
"you've been tougher to live with and harder on her than you ever though you could be.."
This is something I am really trying to digest & own in my relationship. I know this must be the case if my H is will to break our kids hearts
But 2tp I really see you as a changed man and wonderful dad. I do believe she will wake up and see that. The dedication you have to seeing your kids all the time is not easy and every mother gets a little mushy thinking of that.
---- M 39 H 35 D5,D4 M 4 T 9 ILYBNILWY 5/18/11 Left 7/11/11 Divorced 12/1/13
