Putting it back together, but SSM issues linger

[oldtimer]

P.S. what sex toys did you try? And, as long as what you are doing is about you and your needs, she probably WILL check out, disassociate, and there isn't much you can do about it. She can't enjoy sex if she isn't present. Horrible place. Yuck. Yuck. Yuck.

Anyway, the Tantric Sex stuff is very focused on staying present.

[oldtimer]

And, ask her to read PM.

[oldtimer]

And, what is her LL?

[Accuray]

Adinva,

Thank you again, you really speak to me. I really think that you have a lot in common with my W, but you are able to articulate for me what she cannot, and your perspective helps me to understand her.

For me, I would give up on having a super-fulfilling sex life if I had all the other good things about my marriage and family. I rate it lower on the priority scale. It would be nice to have it all AND a great sex life but I'm not driven to achieve that. I've been very happy with a B+ sex life and a fantastic rest of my life. What's driving your quest for more?

Your drive to have it all AND a great sex life with a woman who feels sure she cannot and will not provide it for you. What's that about?

Good question! Before the bomb, I was 100% resigned to accepting what I was getting and did not question it.

After the bomb, my world was turned upside down. I had to question everything about my approach to the relationship. I read a complete library of relationship books, sought IC, did DB telephone coaching, etc.

This learning experience was eye-opening. It showed me that we do not have to "settle for mediocre", and in fact the minute we do, we are starting a slowly rotating downward spiral.

I had to work very hard to get W back to the table and re-engaged -- my 180's are very real and painfully gained. We have the "B" marriage now -- why should I be happy with that?
If I'm going to go through the gut-wrenching pain, why not come out with the "A" marriage?

Does that make sense? I acknowledge it's part of my personality too, I'm a driver.

Can you be OK with just this better-than-before sex life?

I don't know. I'm afraid it will start to lead to small resentments, and when it does, it will start a negative cycle. That's starting to happen already. If I knew how to kill my sex drive I would, as that would be the other solution.

Why are you hitting her over the head with her failings in Giving and Joining if her Receiving is going well? And by the way, she IS giving in her way. She's doing something with you and for you simply because it's important to you and makes you feel good...how much more giving can you get? And, ok I haven't read the book, but isn't the act itself Joining you? Your quest for perfection is a put-down of everything she's brought to the table so far.

Point taken, I need to grow up. I see how my attitude is hurtful. The dilemma is that I need to settle for what I'm getting and feel good about it, and the "feel good about it" is the part I'm having a problem with. I will talk to my IC about that this week and see if she has any advice.

You've got a wife who is willing to do something to make you happy. Let her know it made you happy. You've been successful with setting a weekly/twice-weekly goal that she's willing to try for, and that's good. I would have thought prescribing the number of times would be too much pressure but if she's OK with it then why not formalize it a big more, like Wednesdays are for you and any other day is her call. That way you don't create the pressure of "it's Friday and it hasn't happened yet, when's it going to happen?"

I definitely do let her know it made me happy. Does this contribute pressure? Does this make her feel it's all about sex? I don't prescribe the number of times, I've just told her twice per week is the frequency I like. She was doing that initially, but has dropped down to once.

I'll come back to the fact that you have a square peg you're trying to pound into a round hole, and if you can't live on the sex she's offering now, and it's more important than the rest of the life you built together, move on.

If it's enough, then stop trying to force her to like it more - take what she's offering and take your pleasure from it. You can try things here and there just for fun, but stop thinking of it as for her own good. Respect her view of her own good, which is she's just fine without sex.

Solid advice. The "can I live with it" question is the one I'm wrestling with every day.

Accuray, I think you're doing great and have a lot of hope for you. Cherish what you have and you'll seem less needy. Go for small increments toward your goal. Recognize her willingness and interest as a VERY big compromise for someone who couldn't care less about sex.

Yep, thanks for talking some sense into me. I don't want to be "this guy". I don't want to be frustrated and set unreasonable expectations for W -- I love her. How do I not want more and be happy with what I have? The pushing for improvement is such a part of my personality -- it's good in many ways but definitely has bad side-effects too. I know that if I say I'm satisfied but don't really believe it I won't be happy. This is a tough one.

Accuray

[oldtimer]

I *really* disagree that you should settle for an M in which you aren't sexually fulfilled.

[adinva]

I hear you OT. My T told me that if I did the work and got our marriage back on track and H was interested in staying, I might be past the point where I want to stay. It may not be enough for me anymore. For me, in the middle of the ocean, I'm not thinking about whether the beach I arrive at has cold mojitos.

[Accuray]

OldTimer,

Thanks again, her LL is quality time. I have been giving her that and she appreciates it.

She has not read any of those books. She did read SSM for me when we started piecing and took that to heart. I asked her to read DB once we were on the road to recovery but she didn't get past the intro. I asked her to read the 5LL's. She read about half. I asked her to read "How to Improve Your Marriage Without Talking About It". She read the first chapter, and then started reading fiction and never came back to it. I'm not going to ask her to read anything else, she's not motivated to do it. When I ask her to and she doesn't, it triggers resentment and I don't want to go there anymore. PM will not speak to her.

I don't believe you were in the same place my W was. You wanted fulfilling sex and were not getting it. She doesn't want sex at all. That's quite different. I don't believe she resents me for having an unfulfilled sex life. She resents me when I don't spend QT with her, and when I set expectations that she can't comfortably meet. She doesn't want to find sex rewarding, she doesn't want sex at all.

The issue is not that I won't make sex rewarding for her -- I will. Given any opportunity I'll make it all about her. It's not about my O, that has not been the focus. I'm not a sexual trance guy, I'm a partner engagement guy (to use PM speak), and neither of us are interested in role play.

In terms of toys, I tried a variety of vibrators, vibrating rings, non-vibrating toys etc. She was very passive aggressive about the whole thing. She really doesn't like vibrators, she said they are uncomfortable, and the noise they make really really bothers her. I asked her to show me how to use them in a way she would like after I determined that what I was doing wasn't working, but she wouldn't, she just said "do whatever you want".

I will read "For Each Other".

I told her last night that I will stop reading PM because it's introducing me to a place I'd like to go with our marriage where she does not want to go with me, so reading it is making things worse.

Accuray

[adinva]

Accuray, one of H's best friends is what I think of as an exceller. He's excellent at everything. He went to an Ivy League university, Wharton MBA, entrepreneur, sold his company, has so much money he spends it like water. Model-like good looks, dresses well, always with a beautiful woman. Works out like a fiend, great body. Runs triathlons. Travels. Reads Ayn Rand.

He married a gorgeous strong woman just like him, with an MBA, competitive body builder, just a perfect match for him.

They divorced after just a few years. We couldn't believe it. But she said no one made her feel worse about herself than being with him.

It's nice that your driven but your drive to excel can poison relationships if you feel everyone should want to be as excellent as you. And in the same ways as you.

This could be overstating, but your comment that what you were reading about passionate marriage makes you driven to have better, and your drive to have better puts your W in an automatic inferior and failing position. If that's happening, you need to learn to think differently.

I'd say, go for what's fun, what feels good. Have a good time. Enjoy her willingness. Ease up on the striving, just keep it in the background, in your own head and not keep trying to make it a mutual project where W's innermost being is the project. That can make someone feel really inadequate. And feeling inadequate not a good start to enjoying sex!

[Accuray]

Once again, great advice -- so helpful!

Thanks Adinva, you are right

[Accuray]

Funny too about the mojitos, I realize I'm evaluating the mojitos at this point. "If I had to do a 5 mile open ocean swim to reach this beach, the mojitos better be cold!"

Accuray