MHL, what gave me the "chill" you describe is her saying the part about not wanting YOU to revert to old habits...because that, coupled with her not talking about herself anymore, again made it seem like she was externalizing the problems of the marriage on to you.
You can analyze, overthink, justify your part and even dismiss this fear; and no matter what you do, if you don't understand that this fear is valid on their part, in fact if you don't have this fear about yourself, even just a little?
Then your not really reconcilling anything. That old behaviour was a driving force in their choice to leave, to cheat to, divorce, to cut you out of their life.
To me there are three things the MLC must overcome if they are going to be the LBS's life...a healthy LBSer. : )
1 - the MLC itself. 2 - Pride over judgement and condemnation from others. 3 - their fear that the LBS has not actually changed and this is all a trick.
Experience is a brutal teacher, but you learn. My God, do you learn. - C.S. Lewis
Life is usually all about how you handle Plan B. - Jack3Beans
Listen without defending; Speak without offending - FaithinAK
MHL, what gave me the "chill" you describe is her saying the part about not wanting YOU to revert to old habits...because that, coupled with her not talking about herself anymore, again made it seem like she was externalizing the problems of the marriage on to you.
You can analyze, overthink, justify your part and even dismiss this fear; and no matter what you do, if you don't understand that this fear is valid on their part, in fact if you don't have this fear about yourself, even just a little?
Then your not really reconcilling anything. That old behaviour was a driving force in their choice to leave, to cheat to, divorce, to cut you out of their life.
To me there are three things the MLC must overcome if they are going to be the LBS's life...a healthy LBSer. : )
1 - the MLC itself. 2 - Pride over judgement and condemnation from others. 3 - their fear that the LBS has not actually changed and this is all a trick.
Great points Jack and I do agree that there is that fear in me.
My XW's major complaint about me was my temper and mood swings (which was really my brooding when my needs were not being met), I was a classic case of "No more Mr. Nice Guy".
It haunts me everytime I have to "get stern" with my son or daughter. Afterwards I wonder if the kids think of the "old Dad" that would get mad at the drop of a hat.
I would be interested to have further conversations with my XW and ask why she feels comfortable now being in my presence.....could be that she knows she has her own place and could bail out at any time. Funny thing is everything is totally reversed now.....she draws out the conversations, she lingers when we are together, she suggests things that will put us in contact. I on the otherhand do just the opposite.
I think that in the beginning and for a long time we the LBSer are faking the changes because we are making them for our weyward spouses.......it is not until you make the changes for YOU that they become real.
Formerly "missherlove"
Me49 XW49 M17 T19 S16 D20
Expose yourself to your deepest fear; after that, fear has no power, and the fear of freedom shrinks and vanishes. You are free.
I think that in the beginning and for a long time we the LBSer are faking the changes because we are making them for our weyward spouses.......it is not until you make the changes for YOU that they become real.
MHL, I hope everyone reads your statement above 10 million times. It is SO true and something that I try to drive home to many, but so few actually grasp it. Especially in the beginning, everyone is so concerned about saving their marriage that they (despite recommendations by the not-so-newbies) forget about themselves and concentrate on doing things FOR their spouse. There are a lot of "rationalizations" on these boards that these are genuine changes for themselves. But you hit the nail on the head. If they aren't for YOU, they won't stick and won't be genuine. Thanks for sharing that insight.
"Love me when I least deserve it, for that is when I need it the most"
M18 Me39,H42 D16 Bomb 1/10 Moved out 3/10 OW 6/10 H wants to R,OW gone 11/10 H moves back 5/11 H wants to wear rings again 9/11
MHL and J3B...here's another reason I posted that comment, and I wonder if you have thoughts about this...
I find it fairly easy at this point to be the "best person I can be" and keep my "180s" intact and I feel like it is because my XH is not in my life.
I am convinced that my XH brought out the worst in me. Maybe I brought out the worst in him.
He and I were SO codependent for SO long...
I am not a damsel in distress by any stretch...but he likes being the knight in shining armor.
I feel like if he were around, because that is who he always was..that I'd easily revert to old ways.
Or...I'm no longer a spiteful or manipulative person. But if he were around, I could see me regressing in a second.
So when the MLCer asks about if the changes are "real", this is what I wonder...are those changes only real with other people, or are the changes null and void when the MLCer who is part of the past life of the LBSer brings them back out?
I will say that even though my XH is not in any contact with me, that if things were to change, my greatest fear now isn't that he'd cheat on me again if I took him back.
It's that I'd lose who I became by taking him back.
Make sense?
M45 Bomb 6/09; EA 6/10; Divorced 1/11 Proud single mom of 7 little feline girls and one little feline boy "Fall down 53 times. Get up 54." -- Zen saying
A very thought provoking post. I realise that many MLCers are very manipulative people [probably because they are damaged goods] Looking back I can see that my xh became manipulative as his MLC took hold, and I responded initially, and became very unhappy as a result.
So yes, I think that until we continue to live our own lives for quite some time, there is a real risk we could revert to old ways. finally though those ways become us, and are so embedded that I don't think the reversion would take place, although the MLCer, unless they have dealt with their issues, might try. But at that point, unless they ad changed themselves, I don't think we would want the pre MLC marriage.
I spent a little time with my xh a couple of years ago, and one of the things he noted was that I had 'changed' But he loved me before he left and liked and approved of me. He says he never stopped liking me, just stopped being 'in love'. He always praises my good qualities just didn't want to live with them!!
I no longer want to change 'for him' MHL made a very good point there. I can see my xh is the one with real problems, so I made the changes for me. I don't mean that I am satisfied with everything about myself btw, still work in progress!
I don't think you would revert to old ways - I think you might have done 6 months ago, and you might be tempted today, but every day that goes by makes it less and less likely that you would have a relationship with the man your xh is anymore, unless he changed too.
The other part of the dynamic is how we act around different people. Some people don't bring out the best in us and it occurs at such a low level it is next to impossible to perceive. Happens slowly and over time.
I agree, we change and we stay changed. But we don't truly know until tested, no?
The trick to a relationship with anyone, friend or otherwise, is to change together and to work to bring out the best. Think about your relationship with your best friend. You each have your faults. But you choose to overlook those faults. But when you look at yourself you look to see if your friend brings out the best in you or not. If you like who you are around them.
Would you revert to your old ways? Possibly a real concern there. But what I find more relevant is if those ways were really you or if they were you reacting to somebody else.
If the latter, then if that person isn't different (i.e. hasn't changed) then you may very well react the same way.
I doubt it though. You learned too much and take different paths now when faced with similar choices.
As my IC once told me, you have different tools now. You've upgraded
AJ
"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter" MLK Put the glass down... "Yesterday I was clever so I wanted to change the world Today I am wise, so I am changing myself."
just didn't want to live with them!!