Grace, Love, Compassion, and Faith

[wawinla]

I do question if I'm handling it the best I can. I know I'm definitely thinking about my w's feelings and wants.. I'm just not so sure I'm thinking about myself with such TLC.

V:

Likely because you're still dealing with the sitx...hard to look at your WAS in such a "business" context while wrestling with the hopes of reconciling. As the more experienced folks mention, there needs to be detachment. But, it's not an easy thing to get too.

You're doing well, though I know it's difficult to see that being so close to the situation.

Hang in there!

[aeolianchaos]

Val,

I'm really proud of you.

You've come so far.. your W would only be so lucky to join you on your journey.. because I can see you are going to keep growing.

You deserve to be proud of yourself and build on the self-control, self-respect, and dignity that you showed the other day.

I'm sure none of this was easy for you to experience.. but you did experience it and you did so w/ an open heart. That's so important. You know you can 'deal with it.'

I hope that you get to take some time and just reflect on how far you've come. I applaud it.

[Valeska19]

Thanks Aeo! I would honestly love for my w to join me on this journey.. but it seems that card isn't part of my current hand. *shrug*

Reflecting on Tuesday - my w is still clearly angry at me. She says she wants to be fair to both of us, however her idea of fairness changes when it comes to LA. It's like our 4 years in Chicago were a marriage, but in LA.. it's different.

Our hardships in Chicago were many too. There were many times where one made more than the other. I honestly don't believe she felt anger towards me or vice versa so I'm still having a hard time figuring out what changed in her mind.

I know I'm mind-reading, but if the anger is true, it explains so much. It explains why she felt such anger towards my work increasing in the last 6 months. It explains why she doesn't want to give the car (which she blatantly stated) or why she is going back on her word about the health insurance. It explains the comments of "me screwing her over", or the "I did it at the time because I cared about you".

But I just don't know what to do about it. I validated and apologized but at the end of the day.. those are her demons.

She can continue to use that as a reason for D or her getting more than what is fair or she can deal with those feelings. I pray that God works in her heart. It would be a huge change to put her anger aside and see our marriage as equal no matter the outcome to her. It would be huge for her to say that I do deserve 50%.. even if the situation isn't ideal for her.

It would be her saying "This is hard for me, but I care (or love) you Val".

It would be her dealing with me.. which again is something she doesn't want to do.

It would be putting me first (in her mind).. which goes against everything she is doing right now.

I don't really know how to DB that. In the rare occasions we do see each other we allow ourselves to be emotional and then she closes back up. She has mentioned many times that there is no point getting emotional, they lead us in circles and it doesn't matter now.

All in all, she's pretty set on her decision not just have a physical divorce, but the emotional one as well.

I don't know what to do for myself. I have been looking in my heart and although the hurt and anger is there..I don't really have a HUGE internal struggle to use those emotions to attack her.

She has caused me many hardships, financially & emotionally but to use them as tools to benefit from my D just doesn't seem fair to her.

However I do feel that I contributed to our relationship the best I could for 8 yrs.. and for her to use her anger doesn't seem fair to me. It doesn't seem like a valid reason for me to get less. It could also be that although she is angry, this wouldn't be the first time she tried to controlled the situation. She knows how to push my buttons to get certain reactions.. and I don't mean angry ones.. but ones where I come in to protect or apologize. I'm not saying she did that purposefully because I know I didn't act that way purposefully.. but I did see that dance happen on Tuesday.

I don't really want to stop seeing us as an equal partnership. I believe it's the best way to ensure my feelings don't get in the way and that I can continue to be loving to both of us... but I'm at a hard crossroad now.

I can fight to keep it 50/50. To establish myself as truly an equal part of the marriage regardless of her feelings, setting up healthy boundaries.. and let go of the possibility of recon.

Or I could just say "screw it". Give her what she wants. Do this unhealthy cycle one last time and then move on.

Does it matter that I change the dynamic of our relationship when our relationship seems over?

Does it matter that I show her love in a different way (a more healthier way) by allowing consequences to happen?

Is this the battle I want to fight in order to prove to myself that I am worth it?

I don't know..

[wawinla]

Reflecting on Tuesday - my w is still clearly angry at me. She says she wants to be fair to both of us, however her idea of fairness changes when it comes to LA.

But I just don't know what to do about it. I validated and apologized but at the end of the day.. those are her demons.

She can continue to use that as a reason for D or her getting more than what is fair or she can deal with those feelings.

It would be her dealing with me.. which again is something she doesn't want to do.

It would be putting me first (in her mind).. which goes against everything she is doing right now.

I don't really know how to DB that. In the rare occasions we do see each other we allow ourselves to be emotional and then she closes back up. She has mentioned many times that there is no point getting emotional, they lead us in circles and it doesn't matter now.

All in all, she's pretty set on her decision not just have a physical divorce, but the emotional one as well. [quote]

V:

I sympathize, my WAW feels EXACTLY the same. To hear repeatedly "it doesn't matter anymore", cuts like a knife.

Under the circumstances, we must accept that all we can do is work on us--to be the best we can be and "protect" ourselves. We can't let our desire for R get in the way of that. Again, much EASIER said then done.

I'll let the more sage folks jump in, but letting your WAS get what they want at your expense....will that really help with R?
Will that help you with becoming a better you?

I'm sorry you're going through this, I know it's not easy.

[aeolianchaos]

I know I'm mind-reading, but if the anger is true, it explains so much. It explains why she felt such anger towards my work increasing in the last 6 months. It explains why she doesn't want to give the car (which she blatantly stated) or why she is going back on her word about the health insurance. It explains the comments of "me screwing her over", or the "I did it at the time because I cared about you".

I think I understand where you are coming from here.

It can be tempting to look at their anger or theorize that they are angry and repressing it. I think it provides an intellectually satisfying explanation for what is happening.

And to an extent there is likely a lot of unresolved anger going on. Sadly, validating and apologizing only goes so far. There is a point where people are gripping that anger tightly because it comes to define them in some way. Even if they don't see it as anger.

Righteousness, perhaps.

It would be putting me first (in her mind).. which goes against everything she is doing right now.

I wonder if it's possible to look at this from some other angles?

Is she really putting herself first, in terms of what she wants? Or is a question of what she fears? What makes her anxiety unbearable for her?

She has caused me many hardships, financially & emotionally but to use them as tools to benefit from my D just doesn't seem fair to her...... I'm not saying she did that purposefully because I know I didn't act that way purposefully.. but I did see that dance happen on Tuesday

What if you don't look at them as tools to benefit from your D, but simply as things that happened? However, you also stay committed to a fair and equitable process where you get what you are rightly entitled to?

The dance you speak of - it will keep happening because as much as your W believes that leaving you will solve her problems.. it doesn't really change anything.

You've already gotten this - so you are trying to change the dance, introduce new steps, new rhythms..

Does it matter that I change the dynamic of our relationship when our relationship seems over?

You tell me -- does it matter for you?

I know no one likes to hear this.. myself included.. but if D ends it.. you will eventually meet new people. And you will always be stuck with yourself.

Is there a better time than right now to change that experience for you?

Does it matter that I show her love in a different way (a more healthier way) by allowing consequences to happen?
Is this the battle I want to fight in order to prove to myself that I am worth it?

I think you already know you are worth it.

Whether or not you show her love by allowing consequences to happen .. it depends. What is in your best interests?

Separating self-interest from punitive behavior is a big challenge in this experience. I think you are asking some good questions of yourself..

[Valeska19]

Thanks Aeo. I'll have to process your questions. I have the answers to alot of them, but as you know... everything is a little bit more complicated than "yes" or "no".

Jounaling -

Been overwhelmed with my feelings the past couple days. Mostly been stuck in fear. Afraid of this process, afraid of the outcome, afraid to fight fairly, afraid to lose everything.

My w and I are not legally married in California. We moved here a few weeks before Prop 8 passed. That adds a level of complexity to everything. I have been trying to spend some time looking into these complexities.. it's been emotionally draining. Looking into how to dissolve a domestic partnership in two states... when I don't want one period... is difficult.

Took a break from my head to go hydrobiking with a friend. It's like riding a bike on a plastic kayak. You would think 1hr would be nothing.. but it was extremely challenging.

About 40 minutes in I wanted to give up. I was tired and my legs burned like a MoFo.. I could see the finish line but just wanted to be there. I tried peddling faster but for some reason that didn't work. If I didn't peddle at all and go with the current, it took me farther away from my goal.

I couldn't go back, I couldn't stay put.. I HAD to move forward. I couldn't jump to the finish line. I had to endure the pain and just keep on.. keeping on.

Suddenly I bursted out in tears. I started peddling. I put my head praying and just put one step in front of the other.

When I reached the finish line, I was exhausted. I wiped the tears from my eyes and said "I did it". I hurt but I made it. I smiled.

I'm pretty sure on the bike, in the middle of the ocean, God spoke to me (I'm still new to that concept so it's hard to know for sure).

This morning I barely got myself out of bed. I wanted to give up.. not in a suicidal way but I was just over it. I just wanted to skip to the end of this road, be divorced, never talk to my wife again, and pray that what I settled for would last. I wanted to stop caring about my w, our marriage, I wanted the pain to be over, all my tears finally shed.

But I'm sure now that I'm not supposed to give up or take shortcuts, I need to keep moving forward no matter the pain or exhaustion. I need to keep trying. I need to keep pushing on. That is God's plan for me.

I just don't know what I'm supposed to be exactly moving forward on. Still fighting for m, still loving w, loving myself.. all of the above.

I'm sure that part of the answer will come soon enough.

[wawinla]

Jounaling -

Been overwhelmed with my feelings the past couple days. Mostly been stuck in fear. Afraid of this process, afraid of the outcome, afraid to fight fairly, afraid to lose everything.

This morning I barely got myself out of bed. I wanted to give up.. not in a suicidal way but I was just over it. I just wanted to skip to the end of this road, be divorced, never talk to my wife again, and pray that what I settled for would last. I wanted to stop caring about my w, our marriage, I wanted the pain to be over, all my tears finally shed.

But I'm sure now that I'm not supposed to give up or take shortcuts, I need to keep moving forward no matter the pain or exhaustion. I need to keep trying. I need to keep pushing on. That is God's plan for me.

I just don't know what I'm supposed to be exactly moving forward on. Still fighting for m, still loving w, loving myself.. all of the above.

I'm sure that part of the answer will come soon enough.

V:

Thanks for checking my thread earlier today, much appreciated.

The visit was emotionally draining, so I'll post details tomorrow.

I just read your post...I empathize, I know the feelings you're describing, especially after my meeting with my WAW today.

I wish for you peace and clarity...will be thinking about you too.