Wife is angrier after my 180

[2thepoint]

Now that I have had some time to let the shock of the dropped bomb settle in and to get some good advice and encouragement from the fine folks on this site, perhaps it is time to share the background of my situation. So here goes:

H-46; W-48; M-18 yrs; S-13; S-9

In early September I find my wife in our master bedroom closet crying her eyes out. She is there because it is the only place where she could do this in private where the boys couldn't find her. I ask her what she is crying about and she tells me that she is very unhappy! She feels our marriage is failing because of my selfish behavior. We have a long talk and I resolve to try to be a better husband and father. I begin to make immediate changes, spending more time with the kids, less time on the computer, doing more thoughtful things around the house, etc. A week or so goes by and she tells me that she sees the effort I am making but is angry that it has taken me so long to change. She tells me that she is angry and resentful and then drops the bomb that we should separate. I am in complete shock! I didn't realize she was at the point of giving up.

My wife has always been an emotional person. When we first met over 20 years ago she was seeing a therapist for depression or what not. We never really talked about it but I was supportive of her needs. After we married we moved 1/2 way across the country and she stopped seeing the therapist. After a couple of years, we had our first baby, and then shortly thereafter my job had us on the move again, this time to a small city in the south. We are both from large metro areas from opposite sides of the country, so the move to a small southern city was a culture shock for both of us. It was at this time that W started working from home (telecommuting). Initially she found the work to be very isolating and living in a new city with no friends was very problematic for her. Although we lived on a cul-de-sac with very nice neighbors and plenty of kids, W was not happy. She felt judged by the other moms who stayed home and didn't work. The isolation was really wearing on her and I was not particularly happy in my job. After 3 years and a second baby, I got a different job that brought us back to the same state from which we had moved but to a different city. Again, no friends and W still doing the telecommuting although she now enjoys the freedom and flexibility that telecommuting provides. We get our kids involved with sports and soon make friends and acquaintances.

So now we’ve been here about 10 years. 3 years ago I lost my job, was out of work for 9 months then got a consulting gig that I did for a year but really hated the work and quit that job in search of something more fulfilling. The work I did and the success I achieved in my previous job really defined me as a person. So, when I lost the job, I really felt lost. My W would say I am depressed. I’m not so sure but let’s agree for the sake of argument.

My passion has always been real estate and so with the full support of my W I started to build a business with a former boss who is now a friend and business partner. The pace of the work is much slower than I am accustomed to and the income is sporadic and significantly less than what I was making so that is a bit challenging. Fortunately my W makes good $$ and we get by.

So this is the high level stuff, let’s get down to the nitty gritty:

As I mentioned earlier, W has always been emotional and quite insecure socially. Socially, she has improved as she has gotten older but the emotional stuff never got any better. Seven years ago or so she started taking anti-depressants. The medication seems to help some although it caused her to gain a little weight which she was not happy about and her desire for sex dropped significantly. It also took a long time to find the right medication to effectively address her emotional problems and sexual desires.

In recent years my W has begun to show signs of menopause, huge mood swings, hot flashes, tearful episodes, no sex drive, etc. I tried to be supportive, suggesting she see a doctor and see what could be done. She also began to see a therapist, probably sometime in the last 2-3 years. 2 years ago she asked that I go with her in an effort to work on a problem we were having with our youngest son. Those sessions seemed to help us address that particular issue. After a while I stopped going but she continued because it was helping her with her emotional issues.

After I left my consulting gig W asked me to see the therapist to see if I could find a solution to my own unhappiness. The scowl on my face and burst of anger were creating tension. I went for several months but wasn’t really getting much out of it (mostly superficial stuff) so I stopped going. W continued to see the same therapist who just recently has finally helped her open her eyes to her deep seeded problems (apparently I am the source of much of it).

Meanwhile, for the last year or more my W has been talking daily on the phone with a person with whom she worked with on various projects related to her work. This person apparently has his own set of emotional problems, (broken home, no love life, super smart but very insecure, etc.). On a road trip last year we were passing through the town where this person lives and I agreed to stop and meet for lunch since it is W’s friend and I was trying to be supportive. Now I find out that this friend relationship has shifted in ways that I am not comfortable with and for which I believe is partly responsible for the situation I currently find myself in. A couple of things recently discovered; W talks daily to this person. She recently sent a package to this person and the return address label had a cute pet name as the sender. I didn’t think much of it until I also noticed the same name pop up as the user ID for Skype. So now apparently she is also not just talking to this person on the phone, she is also sharing video conversations with him! In late August, W took a long weekend by herself which I supported. Now I wonder if she had a friend with her. The other day when she learned that a long planned business trip had been cancelled she tearfully told me that she wanted to get away by herself. Geesh, she just had a trip away, now she needs another one?!?! For the record, I never confronted my W about this except last week after we went to counseling together so she could tell me she was done. I told her after the session that I thought her EA was partly driving this. I have not said anything about this since.

So there is the synopsis of what is going on with my W. Here is what is going on with me:

I consider myself to be a good and thoughtful person who doesn’t drink, smoke, do drugs, beat my wife or kids and I have never ever had an affair, emotional or otherwise. I do have my demons though; grew up in a very impoverished family, food insecurities, father did drugs, mother had affairs, was sexually abused for years as a child by a person who went to my church, did lots of drugs until I turned 21, all fun stuff!

Over the years I have worked very hard to make something of myself. I worked very hard to work my way up the corporate ladder, made more $$ than I ever dreamed possible and built a good/safe life for my family. We have a nice home, nice things and really good kids. Where I struggle as I’ve discovered during my soul searching prompted by this crisis, is that I am selfish. When I want something, I work hard until I get it. If I don’t want to do something, I don’t do it! I have pressured my wife into decisions that she would have preferred not to make. If I want to do something, I do it. If I want the family to do something, I press and press until they agree. My wife also feels like I don’t support her emotionally. I have not been 100% present in love, in raising the kids or in general consideration of the family. This manifests itself mostly with my time spent on the computer, (political blogs, news sites, face book, email, etc.). It has become somewhat of an addiction that I have made a great effort to confront in recent weeks.

Perhaps the biggest issue I face as far as my W is concerned is that I don’t respect her and have begun to ignore her. Until the bomb went off and probably for the last year or so I would roll my eyes and sigh heavily when asked to do something. I didn’t even realize I was doing it until I caught myself one day. I also have developed a hearing problem that apparently has really been driving my W batty. She has begged and pleaded with me to have my hearing checked. After the bomb, I did have it checked and was stunned by the results. I now have hearing aids.

As I think about the source of my issues I have come to understand that my selfishness which manifests itself in all aspects of my life and relationship with my W and kids has really been a problem. I have been working really hard on addressing all those selfish behaviors and correcting the things I can correct and doing all the 180 activities I have discussed in previous posts. I am seeking counseling via DB’s coaching and hope this will help. I have told my W that we should go to MC but she is not interested. I asked why she didn’t think we should have done something about this before getting to this point. She has no explanation. Maybe to her mind this is one more way of me trying to get my way again. But in this instance, isn’t it worth it?

So to sum up, here is where I see our issues:

• We don’t communicate well, at all!
• I am selfish
• W is having an EA and possibly a MLC
• I feel physically neglected
• W feels emotionally neglected and disrespected
• I want to keep us together
• W wants to break us apart

What to do? What to do?

[~ kd ~]

You ask, "in this instance, isnt it worth it?"

If you believe it is worth it, and as long as you believe it is worth it, then it is ABSOLUTELY WORTH IT... LBS who don't have an opportunity to understand, never realize it is the LBS that actually runs the show...

The WAS has begun moving on with their lives... even though they may secretly or unconsciously be hoping the LBS picks up the slack and becomes the person they chose to M... it actually ends up being the choice of the LBS to change... or move on... they actually hand us the power stick...

We just wish they would hold on... some do... some don't...

So, awesome list of things to work on, as you describe as OUR issues. Every item of that list can be split into a "mine / hers" category.

Take each item and own the part that YOU can control... and work on it...

Even your W's EA... there is a part of that you do control... as in, becoming a man she is curious about and becomes attracted to and therefore might engage with, more positively...

Yes, the last two are polar his / hers, me / her, yet they could be worked on as two separate items...

Anyhow, "what to do?"

Start moving... start doing... baby steps, focus on you...

It gets easier and it gets better...

[2thepoint]

K.D. - Thanks for the feedback and encouragement!

[2thepoint]

Well now I know it is over! W asked to speak with me tonight and informed me that our living arrangements (her upstairs, me down) can't continue. She has made up her mind and it is over! She can't continue to live in what she terms as a glass house under a shroud of secrecy. The despair is killing us both and she needs it to end now.

W has resigned herself to the fact that we are not compatible in any way. That she has slapped on a happy face for too many years and can no longer continue the charade. She is sorry that we didn't seek MC before we got to this point but we need to start making plans for our futures apart from each other.

Her plan is for an amicable D where we limit L involvement to only what is absolutely necessary and continue to share joint responsibility for raising the kids. We need to get the house sold so we can each buy a new house in a less expensive neighborhood, preferably in the same neighborhood. Her hope is that we continue to parent our children together, just not under the same roof. She wants there to be a spirit of cooperation and shared responsibility so that we don't ruin the children. "How we handle this is critical for the children".

We've agreed to begin actively looking for alternate living arrangements and that it will be settled by the end of the month. She is very sorry for doing this but this is what must be done. She has made up her mind and there is no turning back!

I am very scared for our future and am completely devastated! Please pray for me!

[~ kd ~]

Prayers are with you and your W, 2tp...

Now... think long and hard about this...

If it was really over... what purpose would your W have of keeping an A secret from you... when people move on... for real... they don't carry on secret Rs and lives... from anyone...

You sound like you're basing the M being over by your W's choice...

But... let's say your opinion actually mattered, here...

What would YOUR choice be...?

[25yearsmlc]

who said YOU have to move out? What's the rush?

oh to ease HER discomfort around awkward moments? What about the kids?

Let her move out...YOU want to work on the marriage. Fight for her.

She may not think she's testing you; she may well believe she is "done"...but the fact is,

you can't give up so easily. She's been neglected so long (per your description) and has felt so alienated from you and so depressed in the marriage

that she does not believe YOU or the marriage can get better.

so 2tp you ask us, "what to do?"

I say PROVE HER WRONG...by changing YOU...and

keeping those changes going, consistently, over time...

b/c once YOU change, then the marriage (a r made up of 2 individuals) has to change by definition.

What are your 180s again? And the GAL?

Stay on track. Don't veer off course. You can "resign yourself" to her choice but not help her with it.

Make sense?

[workinghardguy]

Let me echo 25's comments... they're spot on. There is absolutely no reason you have to move out. None. Just because she says you have to? She's not your employer or your boss, she's your partner. She can either leave or put up with it, tough beans.

Will it be hard and awkward? Yes. Can you put up with that? Only you can answer that. And, not only would I not move out, I'd insist that you move back upstairs. It's your bed and bedroom too last time I checked. I don't know you sitch 100% so I'm not sure if you have kids, but I personally can't believe the split room thing is good in a house of kids.

I'm pretty new to this myself so take that for what it's worth. My W hasn't asked me to leave or leave the marital bed even. However, in my head that's my absolute line. I can take the cold shoulder, the curt replies, the bad moods, and lack of communication. Whatever, I had a role in getting us here and I'm a big boy, I can take it. But I won't leave the house and I won't leave our bedroom if it comes to that.

The dynamic between my W and I for years has been myself as primary caregiver. I do probably 80% of the parenting. A Friday night? You'd find my wife out and me at home with the kids. On Saturday you could probably wash, rinse, and repeat. This regular occurrence is a symptom of bigger issues in our R. I don't set boundaries, I don't stand up for myself, and I don't have a life.

This Friday I am stepping way outside my comfort zone and going to a happy hour for our church. Won't get home until 10pm or so. Told W about it earlier in the week, but last night she said she was going to the HS football game with a friend and the SS and SD. The unsaid assumption was that I would be home with our S. Told her that I couldn't do that, sorry, have plans. She agreed to take our S too.

That's a 180 and it's forcing her to invest in our R and our family. It's me standing up for myself and me telling her that she needs to take on the parenting role too... I'm done pulling the weight just to please her; especially since in the long run it obviously has failed!

I know at this point your world is spinning, you feel sick to your stomach, and powerless. I get it, I feel that way at least 10 times a day still. But you're not powerless and you're not the victim. You are you and you have your life to live. If living that life means living in the house that you have a right to live in, then do it! Until there is some type of legal dictate that says things have to change, there is no reason they have to.

Let me close on this... has giving in or capitulating to your W through this gotten you anything so far? Did moving downstairs get you closer to her? Did it stave off the "we're done" conversation? Did it thaw her heart or change her mind?

If the answer to that is no... then why give in again? Why simply do what she says? Any reason to think you'll get a different result?

Do what works... but the corollary to that is to stop doing what isn't working.

[2thepoint]

I had a good conversation with DB coach yesterday. We discussed the pending move and after careful consideration feel that it may be the strongest sign of selflessness (another 180) as opposed to selfishness that I give my W the space she is seeking. It breaks my heart to think that I must leave the home if I ever hope to reconcile. My W has not given any indication of a reconciliation, in fact she now no longer wears her wedding ring, but I remain eternally hopeful. Given that we have 2 young boys, I will still be very much in the picture and as we prepare to sell the house which has been our plan for sometime now, I will have plenty of opportunity to be around my W and kids.

Big test/challenge is coming up this weekend as we are traveling for a wedding and to visit W's family with whom I have a great relationship. I have to be very careful not to get emotional because we both want this to be a good trip, (no one knows of our problems). I also have to resist pursuing behavior as that will only make matters worse.

Please continue to keep me and my family in your prayers as I am comforted by the knowledge that there are caring people out there who recognize the hurt and freely offer their advice and support!

[rickb89]

Man I wish I could help, but know that there are some many of us out there living the same thing. What is right in the universe will happen, just let it all ride and be strong! I know, its easier said than done.

[rickb89]

I will!