Grace, Love, Compassion, and Faith

[In_Shock]

I'm in for the beer thing and I don't even drink

peace to you val. U are in my thoughts!

[aeolianchaos]

Val,

Thank you for sharing that - it is very personal stuff and I'm sure putting out here (even an anonymous forum) is a move of bravery on your part.

Stinking thinking -- we can't change what we can't recognize.. no apologies needed from you!

Since I've inundated you with lots of questions, I'm going to do my best not ask more for the time being.

I would highly suggest that you think about who you are and who you want to be. I have followed your progress since you came on here, and it's been remarkable. Might not hurt to think about that progress somewhat, and the strength and courage its taken you to get to that point.

Sometimes we take our own accomplishments for granted, while loudly applauding the work of others.

If you feel like empathy or validation is going to lead down that road - then don't use empathy or validation. I think there is such a thing as too much of both of those.

Maybe you've mapped her out well enough to know how she is going to respond, so be ready for that. You are 100% capable of handling this, and not taking anything she says personally.

When you try to define another person, you define yourself.

^^^^^^^ What your W says to you and about you speaks for her and her character. Don't let it inside you. Not out of fear, but out of love. Love for yourself. Love for the best in who you are.

Some ideas about the panicking and other stuff:

1) Spend some time really exploring the feeling of your fear. Try to get rid of all the stories that you tell yourself about it, and just attend to the actual feelings you have. Get real curious about it. Make friends with it.

2) Strategize ahead of time how it's going to go down. This is a legal matter, not a personal one. Write it down every day: "If x Then y" where X is something that happens and y is how you are going to handle it.

Planning when, where, and how you are going handle something ahead of time increases your odds of success for a lot of reason. A lot of which work in your unconscious and will be very reliable.

3) Get yourself psyched up. Come up with some realistic affirmations about the wonderful Val that we've all come to know on here, and look yourself in the mirror every day and say them out loud. If you get to the point where you are smiling and laughing, even better.

4) Know that whatever the outcome, you will be alright.

[Valeska19]

Courage is being afraid but going on anyhow. ~Dan Rather

Courage is doing what you're afraid to do. There can be no courage unless you're scared. ~Edward Vernon Rickenbacker

Thanks TM. I will do my best to remember this when I walk into that room next week.

[Valeska19]

Since I've inundated you with lots of questions, I'm going to do my best not ask more for the time being.

Aeo, I like the questions posed. I mean I knew I was fearful, but being able to answer that questions specifically.. brought specifics to the foreground. So thank you.

What does it look like for you to know that you will be alright?

I think the day that I can get up and w doesn't consume me. That I'm not dealing with all this pain, constantly battling my CoDe issues with her as well as the wounds caused by the EA.

Waking up not sick, sleeping more than 5 hours

Loving myself.. truly loving myself.

Enjoying my life w/o the sting that w is not there. Enjoying my life w/o the sting that my w did alot to make me feel worthless.

Getting a text, email, or whatever from w and not feel like my heart is going to explode out of my chest.

Getting a nice text, email, or whatever and not tricking myself into believing that she cares more than she does.

Accepting that w is a sick woman who has many issues, and that does not reflect on me.

That I will not be sucked into this toxic cycle that her and I have created.

That I will FINALLY believe that this beautiful, loving, woman that I see in w is NOT HER. It never was. She could have moments of that, but she's broken. It doesn't mean that she can't be fixed.. only that she isn't now.

Does believing you will be alright in any way scare you?

Absolutely it does.. because the only way I can achieve any of above is to "Let Go" and I just struggle with that SOOO badly.

I feel that if I let her go, she will never return.
I feel that if I let her go, she will think I never loved her.
I feel that if I let her go, I am being selfish.
I feel that if I let her go, I am doing what she did to me.

Letting go is something abused people struggle with. It is something that CoDe struggle with this. I know this. It's not like I can't see how healthy this would be for me. It's not like I can't see that she is already gone. But thus far.. it has all been by her doing.

This would be my CHOICE. It would be retraining my thoughts. It would take away her importance in my life.. well actually it would just emphasize my importance in my life.

There is just this little voice in the back of my head. "If you let go.. be prepared to lose her for good."

That's why DBing is soo hard for me. Nothing I do brings w closer to me. My 180's help in life, but not in r.

And the answer to that little voice in the back of my head should be "but I've already lost her."

[aeolianchaos]

Wow, Val - do you bring this kind of insight and openness to your everyday life?

I'm touched by your awareness of your processes and I think it speaks to something very good and sensitive inside of you.

I think that a lot of what you are feeling is part of the grieving process - how is that for you? What is it like for you to grieve and experience that kind of pain?

Is it different for you, than the pain of being hurt by another person?

Also - have you thought about grieving the loss of the 'old val'?

What does it mean for 'old val' to die and 'new val' to more fully live? Would you like yourself more? Would you respect yourself more? Do you think that it would allow people to truly know you?

I'm definitely projecting here, but I think it has merit so I'll put it out there anyhow.. the idea that in order to grow, we need to let go of where we once were in terms of our 'self'. The ropes we once gripped to raise ourselves up.. they become the tethers that now hold us down.

This quote may be meaningful to you: Only to the extent that we expose ourselves over and over to annihilation can that which is indestructible be found in us...

I wonder if that is part of the process - you feel that you were in a Co-dependent relationship and I wonder if for you, part of that is the feeling of getting your identity from your W. Perhaps rather than seeing your experience through a window of pathology you might look at it in terms of how you and your W co-constructed your relationship to accommodate each other in avoiding self-confrontation in various ways.

Maybe at that time it was easier to receive your sense of self from her, and probably her from you. And this created a system where it only made sense that you would have the feelings you mention experiencing at this time -- the ones that you feel you would not experience if you were 'alright'.

Her response and behavior towards you, if it defined your sense of who you were, would only naturally be something that would make you feel unstable. It takes your ego and puts it in someone else's hands. So it makes a lot of sense you would respond in the ways you described. And yes, developing your 'self' does mean, to an extent choosing YOU. But only in a way that makes you more capable of fully loving another person.

A lot of what you describe are very fight/flight responses and those become entrained in you - there is an excellent article on Psychology Today's website called "Pet The Lizard" by Rick Hanson - he explains very clearly how this stuff works and what you can do to consciously address it. I know you're crazy busy, but it might be worth looking at. As real as your experiences and feelings are - much of it can also be habitual.

This would be my CHOICE. It would be retraining my thoughts. It would take away her importance in my life.. well actually it would just emphasize my importance in my life.

There is just this little voice in the back of my head. "If you let go.. be prepared to lose her for good."

I understand this so well, Val. And I know the fear you feel. After I hit rock bottom, when I learned to really relax, I feared that it meant I didn't care about my W anymore. Learning to relax made me anxious! My feelings and experience changed and I wasn't comfortable with 'what it meant' because it was new and a little unsettling.

The truth is - it means what we make it mean. And so if you want it to mean that you are 'taking away' her importance, it will. If you choose to think of it as 'taking the pressure off of her', it will. There are a lot of very valid ways to reframe it and look at it.

I wonder if you might think about the idea of how letting go is part of letting 'old val' die so 'new val' can thrive? What does it mean for you to do that, and what might it mean for your capacity to love and truly be known by another person?

How might this improve your relationship? Without digging into whether or not it means you may lose your W for good, what possibilities might it open up for you in terms of your personal experience in living and loving?

[Valeska19]

Yes Aeo.. I do tend to talk with much openness and insight. More so now in the past 11 months. I think that has alot to do with now having safe environments.. with my friends and family. I find this board very safe which is probably why I talk about things so deeply.

Yes I am definitely grieving and it is extremely painful. Other than my dad leaving (in which I chose to be soo angry I didn't feel anything) I've never really experienced loss. I guess this is what one feels when you decide to not run away from your feelings.

I haven't really given much thought to grieving the 'old val'.

because when I think about the old Val.. it makes me angry.. at myself and at w.

I hate the fact that she (old val) was so negative. That she didn't enjoy life. That she felt she was "right" because being right meant she didn't have to work on herself.

She was very selfish. Not so much in her m but towards other people. She only invested in certain people instead of showing grace and love to everyone. She thought love had to be earned instead of just giving it w/o expectations.

I hate the fact that she had no self-esteem. That she allowed someone to rob her of her self-worth. That she soo desperately seeks love from someone who can't give it.

I hate that my w help create this person. I hate that my w still tries (although not purposefully) to keep old val alive.. the same way I do.

In alot of ways I'm glad to see the old val go. Changes such as self-esteem, being positive, showing love has been a long time in the works, but it's nice to finally see it having a positive impact on my life.

The parts of the Old Val that hang on now are much harder to get rid of.

I've been hanging out my with my friends and pastor. I just needed to be surrounded by love this week. I can sit there and say that my w and I shouldn't really be together.

I need to learn to love myself and not have my self-worth dependent on her opinion of me.

How I don't need to be with someone who put me down so much that I believed her. I'd rather make excuses for her that she had a rough childhood and had no self-worth.. as if it made it right that she projected her lack of love and self worth on me.

I see it.. but the old val hangs on. Whispering in my ear not to give up because I can change and so can my w. Twisting truths into false hopes that I believe so I don't drop the rope - in turn letting go of both her and my w. Whispering - "If you can both change.. you stand a chance"

And that MAY be true.. one day.. but right now it's not. So holding on to something that doesn't currently exist is because I am scared. Fearful of losing the woman who has been so close to my heart.. Not my w - Old Val.

[JustStunned]

Val, truly changing ourselves is one of the hardest things we will ever do. It requires stripping away all of the preconceptions, defense mechanisms, and walls we have built. Over the years we have become comfortable behind these. This place has become safe.

Then along comes a trauma forcing us to adapt. We’ve got to change to live again. We could stay the same and survive. To live we must change.

As you posted fear of change holds us back. Hope that circumstances we cannot control will evolve enough to return us to where we were holds us back. You’ve recognize how this is false.

We must motivate ourselves to change, to live, to transform. It is a slow process, as real change happens slowly. Epiphanies happen and show us a direction, but the journey to arrive there requires time, effort, and motivation. It is often a slow walk.

What we use to motivate ourselves to change must overcome these false hopes and fear of change. I no longer visualize futures that include STBX. It helps me leave behind that false hope. Having future life goals mapped out permits us to put some of the pedestrian steps we are going through in perspective.

Mediation is one step along the path. It is not the end. To paraphrase Sir Winston Churchill “It is perhaps but the beginning of the end”. As a step the direction taken following it determines the direction of your path.

Step toward your goals.

[JustStunned]

“It is perhaps but the end of the beginning”......D@mm Edit Button

[wawinla]

V:

Thank you for sharing your fears. When I read your recent posts, I thought, "OMG, that's exactly how I feel". It helped me a great deal. Namely being able to see what I've been struggling with expressed so beautifully and also reassuring to know that I am not alone. Again much thanks.

You'll be in my thoughts this week before your mediation. Be strong, breathe in and out, you've grown so much...you'll be okay.

It's like summer this weekend in SoCal...try to get out and enjoy the weekend.

[Valeska19]

Thank you JS. I know it's not the end for me. I know it's a step that I must take. As for the slow changes.. I'm trying to make that ok. I've always been a fast paced girl.

@ WAW - Yes it was summer in LA and I GALed the Sh!t out of my weekend. I'm glad you are finding my thread helpful to your own sitch. I'll catch up on it so we can perhaps continue to help each other.

Journaling - Tomorrow is the big day. I've spent much of this week in tears. Tears of mostly anger and hurt. I've desperately avoided those feelings over the past 5 months out of fear that I would never return from them. This week I have been trusting God, myself, and my personal growth to allow those feelings to wash over me. To accept them and realize that they are okay to have. Just because I have them doesn't mean I will let them consume me. I know my heart is changing.

I've taken Aeo's advice and have tried to think of as many scenarios that my w will present. There are three outcomes that I think could happen.

1. She will be extremely cold to me.
2. When I start talking about the assets, she will grow extremely angry.
3. She will be pleasant and really think about splitting things fairly. She will be understanding that I do deserve 50%.

I have #3 on the table because I do believe God can change people's hearts. I just for some reason don't think it's going to happen... because I have not received any actions from w taking my feelings into consideration at all. If she would do #3, I feel it would just be so she could move on faster. I feel that if she did #3, it would be for selfish reasons.

Regardless of whichever w chooses, my response needs to be the same "It does not reflect on me and my self worth".

Walking in tomorrow knowing that my w will lose alot in our D is very hard for me. Although I realize that these are the consequences to her actions I've always done my best to protect her. I have sacrificed my self worth, my feelings, in all because I thought I was "loving her".

Tomorrow I will still love her, but I will also love myself. I'm not sure how to convey that to her. That by loving us equally, and splitting our assets equally, she will lose alot... but it does not change my hopes for us or my feelings for her. I hope God provides me with the right words. I hope he provides me the strength should those words fall on deaf ears.

I really hope there is no small talk tomorrow. It's just not healthy for me. I wish I could be healthier and handle it as just that.. but I can't. It hurts.

It hurts that we are still FB friends. It hurts that she will call me out of the blue and then retract for weeks. It hurts that she sends me a generic birthday wish. What's next - A Christmas card or a comment on my FB 3 months down the line. I realize that she is 2% in my life, 98% not.. but until I can see that 98% as being okay.. I should probably eliminate the 2%.

I am trying to find a loving way to say this. One that says I have not locked the door and that I care about her deeply, but her being in my life w/o being in my life is not okay for me. When/If she decides to make a commitment to invest in my life as someone she truly cares about, I will be there. Until then, I prefer she leave me alone.

I don't want it to come off as angry and probably something that I will not say tomorrow.. but it weighs on my heart heavily.

I just kinda feel like I am worth it. I'm worth investing time into. I feel like she never fully invested into me. Whether that is she actually didn't care, or she was afraid or whatever. Whatever her reasons are valid and hers alone, but does not excuse the hurt she has caused, nor does it excuse her not being able to fully commit or let go.

If I read this above in another sitch, I would encourage them to accept those feelings and not use them as an excuse to do any action.. but all I can think at the moment is that If I don't start seeing it in that way.. I may never move on.