I think greenblue really has something here, great plan for you to make use of. I would add in addition to dividing everything up 50/50 at the bank, to cancel all joint credit cards.
OK. So we had a huge fight last night about a bunch of things related to the affair.
It ended in probably the most honest and productive conversation we've had in years. The cliffnotes are:
She wishes more than anything to be able to turn her feelings off for the OM. If someone could tell her how, she would.
She has grown over the last 5 years and is a totally different person while I have stagnated (true).
She is not in love with me and says she didn't really feel like she was cheating because in her mind she left the relationship a year ago and is totally over it. To the point where if I dated someone tomorrow it would have zero effect on her and she would probably be happy for me.
We started dating when she was 21 and she was married at 24. She now questions if the feeling she had for me were ever true love and maybe she just jumped into marriage too early and we are really not compatible (I don't agree).
So I told her I thought the best thing was to sell the house and get two separate places. I said we have kids and we are married and we've never once tried to fix our relationship so it is worth at least one try - she finally agreed to seeing an MFT but not until December.
She has also agreed to see my therapist who agrees with DB and Michelle Weiner-Davis' approach for several "separation sessions" and maybe for individual.
So for now I am going to truly focus on me and start working through my own issues. If she comes back and we can rekindle something then great - if not then at least we can have closure instead of being endless 'roomates'.
Thanks everyone for helping me work through this extremely painful and life changing process.
Calidad It's painful but it's progress, trust me. You need time and space to become an integrated man. She needs time and space to think and to put on the big girl pants. Bottomline separations can be very good if done right. Just some observations.
1. It seems counter productive but don't let your W know about your changes once you separate. Yes seems counter productive, but reminding them that "you are changing". Is way more counter productive. She'll notice on her own whether it's through strength and cheerfulness in your voice, or by seeing you thinner and better dressed the FEW times you do interact with her.
2. Ok so she checked out, and is in a EA/PA. Still no permission to get your own OW. My BIL did and it doomed any chance at reconciliation.
3. Get ready to GAL like there's no tomorrow you'll need it. Especially because she will be running the WAW version of GAL. Expect lots of new friends in her life as she pushes away old friends that are "pro marriage" and finds new ones that support her choices. Going out to bars all night with recent divorcees is a common WAW GAL theme.
Bottomline this is her time to find out if the grass is truly greener on the other side, it's your time to add some more fertilizer, and if you want her back don't put up a fence.
OK - well I didn't tell you the whole story. She also said that she doesn't want to have these feelings for OM (but she can't control them) and she would give ANYTHING to not have them anymore as it would be infinitely easier for her.
She looked me in the eye and promised that as long as we are under this roof she is not going to act on it again and will not go to any more mixers until we sell and split up (i didn't ask her, she volunteered it). Do you think she's lying? I told her it would destroy our friendship and make a very tough co-parenting situation for the next 20 years if she breaks her promise and that I would rather she leave now or we just dump the house and get separate places than to have her hide her affair. She keeps saying "it's not an affair".
Another issue I need to address and it may be counterproductive. I feel I should write her a letter to address it. She told me that that one of her issues is she feels I am a shallow person, my relationships are surface and essentially that I lack depth or the ability to nurture a relationship.
This is so unbelievably false. Before we met, I had very deep and meaningful friendships with a number of people. We had an incredibly deep and warm relationship, even though she can’t remember it. I have obviously shut myself off from her n recent years – but frankly, I am a soulful and deeply romantic person, an idealist and a musician.
I consciously chose many years ago to only allow a certain number of people to get close to me as I would rather have a small group of close friends that I know I can trust and who are good, honest people then hundreds of acquaintance relationships.
Starting in 2003 (maybe even a little before then), we both stopped seeing our friends – hers and mine. I stopped nurturing my relationships and frankly I did it because I believed we should do things as a couple and she didn’t really want to do much of anything. In hindsight, I should have been living for myself but I just wasn’t.
While I have deep regrets and frankly don’t like the person I have become and I hate what I have done to you, I also know who I am deep inside and who I was before - and a lack of depth or heart is NOT one of my flaws – quite the opposite, my passion, depth and loyalty to those I’ve let in and are probably some of my biggest strengths.
If I wrote her something like that is it damaging? I just feel I cannot allow her to fundamentally redefine my core personality as she is using that to rationalize why she no longer loves me.
1. Date with OM went terrible and she is truly regretful. On top of that you set a boundary, and rather than ending up on the street she has decided to respect your marriage. Congratulations.
2. She still is head over heals over OM which she admits and wants to continue to pursue, but actually respects you enough to lie to your face. Yeah you read that right. See in the past she saw you as weak and a pushover. That's why she flaunted it in your face, she was pretty sure you wouldn't do anything. Now that you took a stand she could end up in the street. So now she respects your strength enough to lie to you. Twisted huh?
Either way expect her to test your resolve in different ways in the coming months.
This is a rather tame example but it's a way my W tested me:
In the past when going out for dinner my W would get indecisive, she'd pick a place, I would agree, and she would change her mind immediately. This would go on forever until she would get mad at ME! That's because I was being "nice" (or rather weak).
When I decided to stop these behaviors one of the simple things I did is started to actually make decisions and put my foot down on where to eat. My W could not believe I was finally not being wishy washy for her and would repeatedly try to see if I changed my mind. In other words she was testing me.
Expect lots of testing in the future over simple small things, and even some big things. Don't be surprised if she blatantly starts texting OM in front of you just to see if she can get away with it again.
This might be a good time to mention to NOT snoop. It really doesn't help and just hurts your chances of reconciliation when you get caught. If you find out something hurtful it'll just make things harder too.
Post what you plan to do for GAL especially if it relates to [edited by dbmod, reference not recommended nor allowed] Go out with the guys, have a few drinks responsibly, and unwind a little. Take up a sport if possible, I almost started MMA just to get my manly edge back.
As for her redefining your core personality she already has and will continue to. All you can do is listen carefully for the traits you do have and should fix. (I'd start with any NG traits she complains about). Any traits you don't, no talking will ever make her see otherwise you have to show her.
It's good that you started verbally establishing boundaries, now it's time to physically uphold them.
So a week has gone by and it's been both painful and uplifting. I have been GALing and feeling much more like my own self. Been getting things off my list (one of my biggest problems) and have been really focused on my issues. I am no longer speaking to W so I have been working on my issues with others - friends and family that I have also mistreated. I am become far more in touch with myself, much stronger and much more aware of other's feelings.
She on the other hand sat me down last Wednesday night and gave me a heart filled speech about how much she cared for the kids, how she'd never lie to me and how she wasn't going to start lying now. Then she said she'd Ice'd her A and planned on keeping it on ice until we sell the house - then she would see where we stand. She also agreed to a couples session with my therapist.
Well, less than 24 hours the nanny quit and she flew into a rage aimed at me - screaming like a maniac in front of the kids. I told her we were no longer together and she had no right to talk to me like that and if she didn't find a way to speak like an adult, then she would be handling the kids solo tonight. That was all she needed. My therapist texted me and told me to apologize just to keep her from cancelling appt so I turned the other cheek and did. As an aside, therapist thinks she exhibits Borderline Personality Disorder symptoms. The Anorexia is also a sign of severe instability.
In any case, it was too late. This gave her the excuse she needed and for 3 nights in a row, she flagrantly went out and screwed the OM (coming back late each night).
So now she's a liar too. At this stage there is no point in sitting here as an observer of someone else's love affair. I plan to use the couples session to tell her she's got to move out until we can sell the house and LEAVE ME THE KIDS. If she doesn't, I will be forced to sell the house now and lose $200K in extra equity. I am also exploring renting the house (which prevents us from having a $200K pool of money to fight over).
I know I am off the track as far as DB is concerned but there are some relationships that really aren't worth saving. My therapist is a follower of DB and Michelle and she is conflicted also. She said the behavior is sadistic, amoral and dishonorable. Sadly, I now am beginning to believe that we never really had the magical, romantic and passionate partnership we once did...maybe we were just fooling ourselves and reality was something we just didn't want to see.
Thank you for the community members here who took time from their busy schedule to listen and comment. Your comments helped me through a really dark time when I felt I was drowning. God bless you.
I really think that there should be a whole book addressing the spouses of nice guys.
Years of being married to guys that will do anything, and put up with everything to keep an R create spouses that feel like they can do anything, and behave outrageously, because their tantrums, and self destructive behaviors have in the past gotten them what they wanted. Eventually they lose themselves in this dynamic and change for the worse. IMHO this latest self destructive move is an attempt to punish you and get your attention. In a very sick way she probably thinks it'll spur you to get a nanny.
Of course after years of using abuse to get you to do what they want, they lose all sense of proportionality. As I had warned you as you establish boundaries expect for her to lash out as she loses all control over you.
Some spouses, gladly accept the new dynamic, they're just glad the passive agressiveness and stealth contracts are gone. Some on the other hand cannot handle using anything but nastiness to communicate and will either leave on their own or follow a path of self destruction in order to get you to leave.
Remember to remain a gentleman, and to keep working on yourself, and don't be surprised if she returns after hitting rock bottom. Although to it seems your W has a very deep bottom, and a very hard floor.
Remember to do what is best for you and your family, not your bruised ego.
