Confronted spouse...now he wont come home

[Nblost]

One more update. I talked to him about the points in my letter, but he didn't want to read it. He wasn't ready to process the emotions yet. (apparently, it's just up to me to feel the pain).

Yesterday, I finally got a hold of his cellphone and saw first hand the amount of texting/sexting he is doing with the other woman. He is sending her pictures of our kids while we are out as a family (not mentioning I am there). They went on a vacation to Las Vegas together that I didn't know about. He was very upset that I saw the messages because he knows how hurtful they were. He was very quiet/upset after I saw them.

However, he took off again to the city where she lives and from the texts, I know they will be together again this week (he stays with her even though I thought he stayed at a hotel). I put my letter in his suitcase. I also told him how much he had hurt me, how I am upset he is bringing our kids into this, how disrespectful this is, etc.

[Nblost]

I survived last week and my husband came home this past weekend. On Saturday, I told him I was no longer willing to put up with him having an affair while living in our home. I told him I had met with an attorney, bought a book on how to tell the kids about separation/divorce, had told one of our mutual friends about the affair (before last week, only a couple of my friends knew) and I needed to move on with my life. He basically agreed that it wasn't fair to me that he was continuing to try to be with both of us.

Sunday, we did some things with the kids during the day. At one point, I got emotional at a school event seeing all of the other families. He noticed and hugged me. Last night, he was very affectionate towards me (we kissed like we haven't kissed in years). The next morning, he hugged me when he went to work.

I am going to give him a couple more days (he is actually home for 4-5 days this week) and see what happens. I'm doing the Last Resort Technique but am open to talking/being with him when he wants to. He's invited me to do some things with the kids where I have said "no".

I don't think anything is solved (and won't until he tells me the affair is done). I know there is a strong possibility he could be luring me back in to thinking we have a chance so he doesn't need to leave the house.

I will talk to him again before he leaves again in a few days. I will remind him that he needs to leave the house.

I think our talk was a wake-up call to him on some level. Although, he still feels like he is in a different world and hasn't fully processed this year. For example, he claims now that he wasn't upset when I read his text messages last weekend. He felt "nothing" when he saw me look at them. I'm trying to remember to not put too much weight on anything he says.

[Nblost]

Also, he had read my letter. He appreciated it, but it may be too late.

The letter is still in his work briefcase...so at least he kept it.

[Nblost]

Ugh, I can't believe it's only been a week since my last post. Anyway, H is still traveling extensively for work to OW's city. I have been trying to do the LRT and I think I've been fairly successful. I don't reach out to him unless it is something about the kids...I wait for him to reach out first. I haven't been initiating R talks (although he has twice). I also don't make plans that include him although he seems to want to do things with us when he is home.

I sense some cracks beginning to emerge...but, he is saying he needs to see what happens with the affair (he wants me to give him a few more weeks). Otherwise, he will always wonder about it. I completely think this is a joke...very disrespectful and I've told him that I am clearly his second choice which I do not deserve. I had told him to move out...but with his travel, he hasn't made a single move towards that. I've asked him about different options for where he would live, but I can tell he doesn't want to think about it.

The cracks I see are that he is saying more positive things about me and our marriage. I asked him if he would move to OW's city and he said, "that would be a long ways off, I love you, I love our kids and I like living here". He has also been noticing changes in me--I am going out more with friends, am in better shape (I've lost 20 pounds and wasn't really overweight before this started), and I've been a bit mysterious about what I do when he is away. We've continued to have some affectionate moments and he looks at me like he is attracted to me.

But, am I a fool? I feel so torn between DBing and putting his possessions on the front lawn while he is on a trip. Has anyone read Torn Asunder? That book talks about making sure the cheating spouse knows the extent of your anger and hurt. I have done some of that...but I feel like DBing may almost be too nice?

I do think allowing him to wallow in what he's done and not giving him new reasons to distance from me may be working. Like I said though, when all trust is gone...it's hard to trust that H could be seeing the light.

(Does anyone else wish the OW would just get hit by a bus???)

[25yearsmlc]

[quote=InLikeFlynn]What is his incentive to stop when he has both of you? Are you just going to sit back let him screw his brains out with the OW and hope that something comes betweem then and they break up? You shouldn't sit back and take being a second choice!!! What will stop him from doing it again in the future especially when he thinks you won't leave. [/quote


Just so you know, This "advice"^^^ from INLF, is NOT DB based, nor is it solution based imo, and it sounds very punitive.

It sounds as if YOU, otoh, want to try and save this marriage - or at least you are contemplating that

so I urge you NOT to give in to feelings of prideful anger or vindictiveness.

I have never seen it yield anything but more pain.

(And of course there are options other than those^^, that are not doormat behaviors.)

More input coming...

[25yearsmlc]

Okay this is a LONG post (might be a personal record)

but hopefully it'll be "interesting/entertaining" enough to hold your attention.

soooo,

Before you hang onto the righteous anger, don't forget your first post...remember? You said you were to blame. I am NOT Saying this is all your fault at all...

but it's interesting that you have not mentioned what your role was in this since you discovered the affair.

Did you see the movie "It's Complicated" With Meryl Streep/Alec Baldwin? They were married 19 years, he had an a and the m ended. Later on he wanted a recon...

at one point in the film, Streep admits to him "You know, I knew BEFORE the affair that our problems were partly my fault.

But I let you take all the blame when you had the affair, b/c I was so angry" (or words to that effect). Think about it.

See how little she'd have learned if all she did was whine about HIS affair?? She'd be the same woman as before, and she NEEDED work...

so, bottom line is,

IF your h does NOT believe the marriage to you can be better and different,

then he won't want back in...so what are YOU doing to change YOU and the m?

If you can manage to show him that marriage between you two can be a good thing again, then perhaps OW won't matter.

OR if she does, at least you'll know you owned your part

AND you'll know that you became a woman only a fool would love.

Since I sense so much anger in you (which I understand...I DO...)

but I'm worried that your h won't believe you can ever forgive him...

will you hold this over his head the rest of his life?

Will you throw it in his face every time you two fight?

Also, the more people you tell, the harder it will be for YOU to forgive him. And the harder it is for him to return...

IOW, why tell all those people? (To punish? To cement your choice to give up? Giving up is easy. It protects us from looking within ourselves and making the real journey, the inward one...)

What good could it possibly do, unless you want to be seen as a blameless victim, (which isn't fair or accurate) OR you want to stay on track to end it...


My DB coach said to "Keep The Road Home, Paved & Smooth"...good advice...

don't make it harder for him to come home than it already will be...

so the more people who know, the harder it'll be for him to return.

Therefore, YOU need to decide what you want and if you are not sure, then be quiet and thoughtful about this, deliberate a lot more...THINK IT ALL OUT and

do NOT react in anger or out of fear or pain.

Make your choices and actions come from a place of love and self respect

BUT Not from needless punitive measures or so called "boundary setting" when what you are really doing is cornering him

or issuing ultimatums you don't want to enforce...

Consider this real life example I had growing up...

I grew up with neighbors who were a fun military family. The dad was a retired Colonel in the Army and a former POW (5 years in Vietnam) and there were 5 good looking kids around my age. After the war but years before they moved in, apparently, the h had had an affair with OW at work.

oh How do I know?

We ALL KNEW b/c the wife let it slip out enough...she'd make snarky remarks about him or imply things about him were "Not so heroic" etc....

if we asked him about being a POW, or any war story or about one of the medals he had received,

she'd change the subject or interrupt every time. At first we thought she was protecting him from reliving it, but no, she wasn't...she was punishing him some more... and she was far less subtle than she realized. Heck, I was only a teenager yet I sensed such a bitterness in her...

thing is, no matter what happened in their past, as of THEN/THERE, we all detested HER - and admired HIM...we felt she effectively pushed him into the arms of OW w/her bitter ways and her resentments

b/c who wants to be with a woman who would punish her h (and thereby her children) for all those years?

30 years later and I still recall it vividly and NONE of her 4 daughters are still married, (2 never did marry) and the son lives FAR away from her. The Colonel passed away and was finally treated like the war hero he was. She could no longer deny him that...

To me, she made the worst of choices. She stayed married but refused to forgive OR look at herself...so they were stuck in hell.


IMO, you need to decide EVENTUALLY, (no rush!!)

to Either move on and leave the guy, b/c for some people it's just something they'll never be able to move past, OR learn from,

OR stay married and TRY to learn to forgive.


Staying married and holding onto that pain and bitterness is the worst answer for ALL concerned.

Don't become my neighbor. Don't think you know your h's pain. that's mind reading...rarely helpful. maybe never.

Forgiveness is a process. I never saw forgiveness growing up so I had to learn it. But it has been so freeing.

Without it, my m would be over, and I'd have learned very little.

I'm a better woman for my "nightmare" experience.

You can be too. Look up endeavor's thread if you can. Her m is surviving an affair and it has NOT been easy at all...but it's getting better...

And if you want to do the Div Busting method, THEN DO IT...don't confuse yourself or mix up a bunch of conflicting approaches and behaviors, and then say "they didn't work"....

Read and choose and stick to ONE choice for at least awhile.

And btw, look at my signature block. My h was gone for 2 years. You've been at this for what, a month? Two?

For a 12 year marriage and 3 kids, that's all you can handle, WHILE knowing you were partly responsible? Come on...you know you have more stamina than that...

BTW, since all you control is YOU, let's work on what you agree needs work. What would you change about you as a partner?


for instance, Why was the marriage sex starved? Did you have anger or were there intimacy issues or body image...?? Regardless, What are you doing to address those issues?

Have you thought about how it felt to be your h when he was getting rejected those nights? Every night you did not initiate, or said no to him, was a night he felt rejected and undesirable...food for thought.

My reaction to your letter was "way too long" and "way too much about your pain" and not enough about your part in this...or that's how I read it...
So I'm impressed he kept it or read it. But I would not write something like that again. How do you feel your C has been, vis a vis DBing?

This is a simple yet radically different approach to marital crises. It's solution based, and short term, so instead of the endless taking of the "history of a childhood" and "why h has mommy issues" or whatever, AND OR

instead of just "getting things off our chest"

we look to see if what we are doing is helping the m, and if so, we do more of that...OR If it's hurting the m, we do less or none of that.

I know it's easy sounding but it's not easy to do. Way too many of us want to rehash the past. So do a lot of t's and c's.

It was eye opening to me to hear my h's version of events that sometimes, were not "insane"...I mean, he really did have a different POV and sometimes he was just as "right" as i was.

So we agreed we did not have to agree on our past...but we DO have to agree on how to go, from this day forward.

And let go of the past...that's part of forgiving and living in the present.

See if you can enjoy the time your family is together for just that...being together. Give him something to miss...

I know this sounds like a lot of 2 x4's and I'm sorry.

I really am sorry for your pain. It stinks big time. Often it's just gut wrenching even when we can step back and say "Wow, I own part of that!"...That is a brave thing to do, and sometimes people feel worse for it!

But I say, see those insights as empowering. The more YOU can change in YOU, the more YOU can reduce the risk of this happening again.


It's good to have people tell you they empathize.

But don't forget to do YOUR WORK b/c that's what YOU control here. Not him.

Be the best woman you can be, be a woman only a fool would leave.

And leave the results up to God.

(Please read the Div Busting or Divorce remedy book asap--I prefer the latter).

And know that If it were not for THIS SITE and this approach

I would have divorced 5 or 6 years ago. I'm glad I'm not divorced. I'm glad I came here...but I changed ME a lot for a long time BEFORE h changed at all...welcome to reality.

Ugh, I can't believe it's only been a week since my last post. Anyway, H is still traveling extensively for work to OW's city. I have been trying to do the LRT and I think I've been fairly successful. I don't reach out to him unless it is something about the kids...I wait for him to reach out first. I haven't been initiating R talks (although he has twice). I also don't make plans that include him although he seems to want to do things with us when he is home.

I sense some cracks beginning to emerge...but, he is saying he needs to see what happens with the affair (he wants me to give him a few more weeks). Otherwise, he will always wonder about it. I completely think this is a joke...very disrespectful and I've told him that I am clearly his second choice which I do not deserve. I had told him to move out...but with his travel, he hasn't made a single move towards that. I've asked him about different options for where he would live, but I can tell he doesn't want to think about it.


what is your goal in pushing him out? I assume you want him to choose you --but he's clearly in the throes of a new affair, so it's not likely. He likes feeling desired and it's so new to him...

The cracks I see are that he is saying more positive things about me and our marriage.

Great^^^.


I asked him if he would move to OW's city and he said,

why are you asking him this? It's NOT DBing...it's pressure. The more you challenge and question his choices,

the more you force him to defend and cement those choices...Stop it.

Learn to deal with SOME ambiguity - b/c we all do. Stop insisting on clarity when it's not possible yet.

"that would be a long ways off, I love you, I love our kids and I like living here". He has also been noticing changes in me--I am going out more with friends, am in better shape (I've lost 20 pounds and wasn't really overweight before this started), and I've been a bit mysterious about what I do when he is away. We've continued to have some affectionate moments and he looks at me like he is attracted to me.

All ^^^ good stuff...keep it going...

But, am I a fool?

what? B/c there are positives? B/c he has not ended the A immediately?

Ever think it's possibly b/c he does NOT know that you are different for real, OR that you are going to keep YOUR changes going if he returns, and he does not want a sexless marriage....


I feel so torn between DBing and putting his possessions on the front lawn while he is on a trip. Has anyone read Torn Asunder? That book talks about making sure the cheating spouse knows the extent of your anger and hurt. I have done some of that...but I feel like DBing may almost be too nice?


Well that says a lot to me...you don't know what pain he feels but you fear it's not enough for you? HE needs to suffer more?

That's not coming from a healthy place or a loving place in you. If you want to be able to hold your head high later on, stay in touch with the love and light within, not the pain and darkness or bitterness...

But DBing is NOT doormat behavior. It can require temporary shelving of some emotions, but so what?

If you "fear" DBing is "too nice"...First -please see that admission for what it is... telling. Learn from it. Was one reason you didn't make love more often b/c you held onto resentments or grudges b/c of something he had done or said earlier in the day/week/month??

How was forgiveness modelled for you in childhood? WHAT DID IT LOOK LIKE?

Here's your option if you have decided he has not felt enough pain for you...

Punish him. Teach him a lesson! YOU Show him the consequences of his actions, which you will determine...and enjoy the misery you can create for him bc after all, HE does not deserve to be happy

and his misery will somehow give YOU peace and joy and happiness...right?

wrong. Don't make this about being "right". Make it about being happy.

I recall wanting my h to "be accountable for what he'd done"...and My DB coach said,

"LIFE is what makes them accountable and life is what shows them the consequences of their actions. It's not the spouse's job to do any of that!"

What you are teaching your daughter's about forgiveness? Do you believe in the concept of redemption? Can your h ever redeem himself in your eyes? Do you believe in love and committment?

Can you redeem yourself? I mean, do you believe you can become the warm loving woman and wife he needs, and you might once have been?

All I'm hearing is you wanting to be the judge/jury and executioner.

Pick an approach and give it a fair shot. But Don't do 4 conflicting approaches all half ass... make sense?


My fonts are weirding out so I'll quote you here....You said:
[color:#666666]
Like I said though, when all trust is gone...it's hard to trust that H could be seeing the light.

(Does anyone else wish the OW would just get hit by a bus???)

RE THE OW getting hit by a bus question... We all know that one...and answer is YES...) but let's look at the other question another way.


the question about trust...


Why should your h trust that if he returns to your arms, they'll be open & warm to him, when they've been crossed and shut for so long?

Why should he trust that you won't hold this over his head, like the sword of Damacles? You've already been telling everyone you meet.

Why should he feel safe and loved when the only thing that got your attention was his turning away from you?

Trust goes both ways...and both of you have some re-building of trust to do.[/color]

[25yearsmlc]

early correction

become a woman only a fool would LEAVE...

and leave the results up to God...

[Nblost]

Thanks 25yearsmlc! I agree with you...I am such a mixed mess of emotions that it's hard to get my head on straight. You are right...I need to pick an approach and live with it. I think fortunately, what I've been showing him is primarily the LRT (not much contact or pressure) and changes in me. I've slipped up occasionally in our conversations but have now really tried to focus on just listening to him. (The letter was written when he wasn't willing to admit this was painful for me and he was thinking he could work on our marriage and the affair at the same time)

I also wanted to clarify that I have only told a couple of my close friends about his affair and one of our mutual friends (who was initially his friend). I'm trying to use my IC, my close friends and this board to vent. We have not told any family, work, neighbors, other friends, etc. I wasn't going to tell the mutual friend, but he noticed I was feeling down and probed about why and I started to cry. He insisted I tell him what was going on and he has been through a similar situation so he had some perspectives (he is now happily married to wife #2)

I agree--I need to show him warmth and affection. He hugs me when he gets home and we hold onto each other for a long time. (I try to only follow his lead...although a few times I have initiated because that is more of a 180). We have had some romantic "interludes" (no actual sex) in bed and I have been very open/turned on in those moments. Last weekend when it happened, he held me afterwards and said, "you are amazing".

Our marriage was never sexless...on average, we were probably once a week. However, my H would have wanted it 4-5 times a week and did feel rejected. I very much own that I let too much of that slip away. (I blamed it on the routine of marriage, 3 kids, his work travel, etc). I also think we talked about our SSM exactly how Michele says not too--I felt like I could never live up to his expectations so I felt very pressured and insecure. He felt like I never validated his concerns or tried. The reality is we should have reacted to the issue much sooner instead of backing away from each other.

I agree...I need to keep going on myself and keep trying to GAL and do some 180s. For Halloween, I put on a fun/cute pirate costume and it seemed to get H's attention. I have tried to be very upbeat with the kids and around the house.

I think I just struggle the most with the fact that I don't think I can live with the affair and him comfortably staying in the house for very long. I know six weeks is NOTHING compared to what so many people on this board are doing. I just think for me...it's too disrespectful and will zap away too much of my self esteem. It's also not reality for him...I feel like I do want him to live his life and know what it will be like without me. He isn't doing that now--he travels for work and his "fun" and then comes home and gets to act to everyone like nothing is wrong at home. I do know this isn't easy on him and I guess you may be saying that the double life may eat at him more than I realize.

I guess for me, if my kids knew what was happening with the affair...I've shown them that I've welcomed their dad home each weekend. However, I don't want to show them that I am willing to be a doormat and keep doing that for months on end. I wouldn't want my daughters to keep enduring the pain.

Our MC (who we only went to once) predicted I would not be willing to put up with the affair for very long. I am confident, I have a great job, great family, etc. and he doesn't know why I would. I guess I am letting some of that vibe come through with my H because I do want him to know the truth that he can't keep having this affair forever. And, every week/month that goes by makes it harder for us to build back and recover.

I do think I need to recognize the positives and try to stay focused on me. I do need to remember this won't change overnight.

It's just so hard (as you all know) to balance.

[25yearsmlc]

indeed it IS hard...

it's fine line between doormat and compassionate patience...

it's a fine line between false pride/anger and setting an actual healthy boundary.

And the line shifts!! And it's blurry!!

I get that...

so try your best to do YOUR work, own your part and let go of the PAST...
and

stay in the present if you can.

8 weeks before my h was planning to leave our family to live in the tundra, which would likely end our m, he had a conference in Palm Springs and wanted us all to go with him.

I balked. Felt weird and fake and like I was "rewarding" him for being about to leave.

But my DB coach said "do it for the kids (both d's were still at home) and give him something to miss"

and so, since it was going to be our last likely vacation as a family I felt I could do it for 4 days.

for FOUR days I could shelve my anger and not "go to negative land"...for 4 days

I could see my h in ONLY a positive light. I could avoid the negative thoughts, for four days

and instead of seeing him as a nerd monopolizing the conversation, I could see the value of his intelligence teaching our d's about medicine and science...

instead of thinking of h as a health nut, I could treasure the fact that he takes care of his body, etc.

You get my point. I stopped all the negative thoughts of my pain and anger and stayed in the moment...and created more of those moments..

Frankly, if I had to do that forever, I could not have been able to do it for a day. BUT I actually comforted myself with the thought that

"I can always be angry at him LATER"....and that, sad to say, got me thru it...

but see, the thing is, after about a day of this, H began to relax and HE began to be more loving and fun. And so did I.

We had a frickin' BLAST those 4 days and the girls have great memories of it...and so did H and so do I.

so I think I got a glimpse of what forgiveness looks like...and that was a turning point for ME and then later...us...

make sense?

[Nblost]

Totally makes sense. And in a way, is why I am glad H is traveling so much...I can gear up and do that for a weekend at a time. I'm also able to create a bit of mystery and he doesn't see some of the mundane/irritating parts of life with the kids.

But,