don't expect fast results but realize this really is mostly about HIM. He's confused now so you need to back off big time b/c pursuing him is a bad bad idea when he's going to see it as pressure. In effect, "Pursuit = pushing him away". May sound counter intuitive but that is why you must read the Div Busting books. I prefer the 2nd one, Div Remedy.
Start reading that asap. I think Ch 1 is online.
Good luck
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
Your H is obviously confused. My early sitch was so much like yours - my H dropped the bomb, told me he wanted to be free, then later I did find that he was pursuing OW. Exactly the same kind of emails - no ILY's or anything sexual, but obviously with a lot of affection.
He also did the same thing about MC. But just like they said here, I felt that he was only using MC as an excuse to say that he tried, so I actually decided not to pursue it and went instead to my own therapy which at least was covered by insurnace, and if anything, helped me vent. And the same thing about breaking up with OW - he did it openly, tell her that no more ocntact, etc. but what happened with us is that he became so depressed, missed OW terribly and then OW was the one wo initiated contact and they went "underground".
Good for you you found this site early, I did not know about DBing until 4 mos. post bomb and so blundered my way through those first 4 mos.
Somehow we are still together, but a lot of damage has been done.
Just wondering, how old is your D?
Me:49 H:45 D:12 M:14 T:18 Bomb: 6/26/10 EA: 9/3/10, fizzled out slowly, now ??? 11/5/11 Retrouvaille Finally piecing.... Its peaceful at last, but we got a looong way to go
Thanks 25years.....just finished reading it and going over the list. Been trying to find a mc who accepts payments today. Feeling extremely anxious and sad today.
Angel, did you use any of the db techniques on the list in this thread? Did they work? If you don't mind sharing any helpful specifics.
speaking for myself, I GAL and detached and did some 180's...in the reverse order.
All helped. Detaching and coming to believe that I was going to be truly fine with or without h, and then believing it was likely to be without him
and still, I'd be alright, was eventually something I must have radiated. The more I believed it and showed my confidence, the better he seemed to treat me. I sent out job applications for 1 year contract work overseas and h was shocked by that.
Said "what's going on?" I said "I always wanted to live in Europe and the girls are fine with it." H said nothing but boy did he look bugged. What could he say?
Frankly, I came to realize my life would be better without h than with him IF he was going to keep on that track of his.
I came to see the upsides of his absence and when he wanted back in, he had some convincing to do.
Here's a post from someone who has an ex h (former MLCer) who now wants back in. He was gone for 6 years but she did not use that time to "wait" around. She has a good life now and is debating what to do.
Here's what she wrote to someone else with a H/MLCer. Note especially the last 2 lines...
It's good that your H is inching out of MLC but it's a long and slow process. It's so important to think about yourself and enjoy your life as much as you can if you choose to wait it out.
My H wanted me to stay right where he left me - it gave him a sense of unlimited time to continue his bad behavior. He didn't want me to get a life without him. When he finally sensed that I wasn't waiting in the wings for him anymore, I think that helped rush the end of the MLC. I wish I had realized this sooner.
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
Thank you ...25years. Because of your post i stood strong tonight.
My h told me he wanted to give us a second chance. I just said..."i dont know. Have to think anout it"
I wanted to jump at the chance more than anything...but I didnt. I wanted to feel hopeful but instead i feel sick.
I'm extremely scared and cautious. Knowing the mind of the mlc'er...he could fall back into the tunnel tomorrow. Maybe i am the rebound for ow. He is sad, does not feel he can be with her now...secret is out...the excitement fizzled. She is out of the country... I'm here. Just speculating.
How did he go from being angry about me uncovering ow, to wanting a second chance? This just does not feel logical nor based in reality.
Thank you ...25years. Because of your post i stood strong tonight.
My h told me he wanted to give us a second chance. I just said..."i dont know. Have to think anout it"
WELL DONE!!! You are not doing this to punish him. You are just revealing the fact that there IS some risk to his behavior. Obviously (well, NOT so obvious to the MLCer though) is that a LBS is hurt & won't endure that forever. Otherwise it's hard for the MLCerto see any downside to their endless indecision....make sense?
I wanted to jump at the chance more than anything...but I didnt. I wanted to feel hopeful but instead i feel sick. I get that^^...understood. It does get better.
I'm extremely scared and cautious. Knowing the mind of the mlc'er...he could fall back into the tunnel tomorrow. Maybe i am the rebound for ow. He is sad, does not feel he can be with her now...secret is out...the excitement fizzled. She is out of the country... I'm here. Just speculating.
How did he go from being angry about me uncovering ow, to wanting a second chance? This just does not feel logical nor based in reality.
welcome to the world of the MLCer...
my single biggest regret (and I have many) is the amount of time I spent on trying to understand what I now believe is fairly incomprehensible.
I focussed SO MUCH ON HIM instead of caring for me, and my kids. I kept asking myself, and every person I could ask this of,
"WHY???" And other unanswerables like "when will it be over? What will happen? How will HE feel? What is HE thinking/doing/planning/feeling?"
Sense a pattern CT? All about HIM...not what I wanted or needed or could do to be happy THEN or what I could do to create a better more fulfilling life for me and my kids...
I wish I had done that sooner b/c it sure felt better than NOT doing it.
I wish to God I had cared for myself better and faster. I can't say exactly what matterd the most to h, and or when. I just know that as soon as I felt better and safer "no matter what", well, first off, I FELT BETTER!
second, that inner feeling of well being or peace within, does make us radiate something that MLCers seem attracted to. Actually most people are attracted to those who seem to have it together inside. You know?
As for h, can't say exactly when but for sure I noticed a shift after he moved up to the great north and found himself, predictably, alone a lot. I was here with our girls in our home in a warm sunny area with friends and a future. I began to really GAL and enjoy the upsides of his being gone. Little things at first, like watching chick flicks when I wanted and not worrying about a toilet seat being up. Sounds silly but it helped to notice this and embrace the little "improvements"...plus I had d's at home with me.
Then bigger things, like not caring about h's career and where to live FOR HIM was huge and liberating for me...finally...
H was doing whatever he was doing in his new "cutting edge" "GREAT JOB"...which he left his family for.
I had a feeling he felt he had a mission. (Hard to explain but I know he had a "task" to accomplish which he needed, insanely, to do. NOT something I'll ever agree with, but it was what it was).
We had seen many mc's and they pretty much told me, in front of h, that h was "acting like a single man" or a "man who values his career over his family." Ouch.
I hated hearing things I could do nothing about, which is why it's HUGELY important to dig deep and hope to God you do find flaws in you that you want to work on. Why? B/c then there's something you can do. You're not powerless. I dug deep and not so deep and there was plenty I could do to become a better woman. Still is.
Anyhow, when that task of h's was accomplished I thought he might wake up. Sure enough that happened. As if he suddenly noticed no one was there with him.
When he had visited us here 3000 miles south, (and see if any of this can apply with you)
I did my best to contrast the negatives he had said or felt, with positives. Intuitively I had not wanted to do that. i wanted to punish him for leaving. Felt I should not be warm and fuzzy b/c after all, he had wronged me and I'd be rewarding him.
BUT the thing is, 1) that didn't work, while he was here being nasty and so
2) I needed to try a different approach. So I gave him something to miss.
We had warm fun times when he was here and our children were with me here living their lives...and then he'd fly back to the tundra/adventure and as for warmth and fun for him, maybe not so much??
When the dark cold winter came, he began calling every day. Sometimes more than once.
I was happy and upbeat BUT WE WERE HERE...& we were busy doing fun things, meeting cool people, going to interesting places, GAL big time.
H eventually felt miserable...the rest is history. Except I did not say "sure come home" or "yes I'll join you" when he first asked. I said things like "How do I know you wont' choose another job/person/thing/hobby to do over me/us again?" How do I know you wont' be a jerk again (or words to that effect).
H said the things I needed to hear, over time, before I agreed to try. Then we went to Retrovaille about a year into piecing. For us it was very helpful.
My guess is that if you can pull it off, and it's often Mother Teresa hard...
be as upbeat and warm and loving/interesting as you can be BUT also mysterious and not quite so dang available to him...(IOW, don't say "I'll love you forever" and keep reassuring/pressuring him, b/c that may be how long he takes with this and at this point, it's a turn off for him...)
any man who says "don't get your hopes up" should be listened to. Meaning, don't. You can be warm and loving BUT detached and not available. Haven't you flirted with guys before? Of course...doesn't mean you don't have other interests or friends.
Assume he may leave but be the best woman you can be anyhow. (For one thing, why not become the best woman you can become? I don't think we ought to see our improvements as a "waste of time" if they don't come back.
Second, it increases the chances of him realizing you are a great catch AND that he might lose you so he needs to wake up.
It's a fine line to walk but somehow find the balance between being too available/needy to him, and yet still being a warm woman with lots of fun charm (GAL big time is the most helpful thing for this).
These changes are first done for US, not them...you really need to "get" that.
When you go to the MC, don't argue FOR the m or push hard to convince him. F- that. Do a whole lot of listening to him. He will probably revise the marital history to justify wanting to leave.
They all do this with statements like "I was never happy" never felt loved, always felt bad" etc. (Lots of "always" and "nevers" tosses in...as if that's realistic or fair.)
But when he does that, you have two options that are helpful.
1) if he says something totally out of whack that might not even be true at all,
say "Wow, I don't recall it like that at all, but I'm sorry you felt hurt/upset by that."
2) if he says something that has SOME or a lot of validity to it, and you feel responsible for some or all of it, you say'
"Yes, if I had it to do over again, there are lots of things I would do differently."
Both responses are hard to argue with and both indicate you would not do the same behavior again. That indicates change on your end.
Doesn't mean you don't speak up for yourself if his demands stink for you. You count too. You will soon need to decide what's good enough for YOU.
For now though, since you are here trying to make things work-- Bottom line is he will need to believe, that
marriage to you can be better/different than before. truth be told, don't you want to know that^^ too?
since you are the one posting here, the changes begin with you and we don't even go to what HE needs to work on. He's not here.
You work on YOU and ONLY YOU b/c that's your job. And Be there for the kids b/c they don't need both parents checking out on them.
I know you fear being second fiddle. But he may be thinking, "since OW is gone, I may as well 'try'...." and he's kind of right.
Doesn't do much for your ego but that's an aside right now. You have to do what YOU can for your ego. And if he's 'trying', then do that too, times 100.
If things don't work out, you will have given it everything and down deep he'll always know that. Unlike him, you wont' be haunted by selfish choices...
Do not let HIM determine YOUR happiness. Being upbeat doesn't mean being goofy happy in the face of rudeness.
But inwardly content and pleasant to be around. No moping or lashing out. Anger from you will simply fuel his negatives and help him justify wanting out. You have to lose the anger, at least in front of him.
I have to sum up now b/c it's late--
So, try to be a woman only a fool would leave. And
leave the results up to God.
There is hope. But be disciplined in your DB approach. Don't falter and don't expect results soon. Consistent change + sufficient time = change he can believe in.
If you get to a point where YOU feel you cannot "do this" anymore, we get it. We'll cross that bridge if you get to it.
But you are not there today.
(( ))
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
25years, thank you so much for sharing all of this...it is so helpful and i appreciate it.
It has been somewhat difficult to do 180s and gal here. I cant drive myself due to optic neuritis (ms). H takes me everywhere. When i did have my neighbor come and get me...he did follow me out to kiss me goodbye and acted concerned, then come to find out he was using that opportunity to write ow when i was gone.
I know this is going to sound pathetic, but i dont know how to become the woman he would be a fool to leave, and i'm feeling so low right now because he told me today he loves me because im our d's mother, and has feelings but he is not passionately or deeply in love.
I dont know what to do to change his mind. I do need to work on me, i do need to gal more, but being in the mountains with no way to take off and drive makes it hard. I honestly think if i leave anyway he wont miss me.
I know i sound lame and really a sad person. He is not interested in me anymore. Knowing he wants to pursue other women makes me feel like there is no hope for me. This is also going to sound crazy but i fear that being apart from him will only solidify his feelings of wanting to be free, but if i make myself more available to him then that's just more of the same. I want to be careful about pulling back because in the past i have done this and dont want to create more problems.
You are right, it is all about him. Every day. I walk on egg shells. I am sweet and pleasent, i dont rock the boat. I try to not cry in front of him....doesnt always happen. He did tell me today he doesnt want to discuss r every day, as it makes him feel more miserable.
At this point its as if im trying to be perfect, act right, try to say and do the right things. Been doing this for nearly 2 months and he still wants out. I dont know what to do differently.
I look like hell, and i cant stand the taste of food. He must look at me as some sad little woman. I hate that. He told me he sees me as my caretaker! Not an equal partner he has passion for. I cant make the ms symptoms go away.
I know i am whiney today. Feeling sorry for myself. I am trying to dig deep and coming up empty.
If he doesnt love me, why does he want to go to counseling. He is saying he is open to the possibility of making us work, but inside he said he feels done with me and wants to move on.
Thanks for "listening". I feel lucky to have this space to vent. Here, at least i feel safe.
A question i wanna throw out here. I AM too available to him and i want to try pulling back a little. In my situation, where i cant just take off and drive...i am wondering what i can do. Going to my room will appear as pouting cause that is what i do when we argue and it would be offputting to him.
Would stopping the following possibly push him away further?
- going to him for a hug - starting converations - spending more time outside than indoors where he is - less talking
