I've got 54 days to receive a miracle.

[AJM]

Once again Tad, I find myself seeing and agreeing with 25 on this. Do yourself a favor and re-read that post until it sinks in.

Don't read into things, and continue to detach. Be the man you are, and stop worrying about your actions towards your spouse. That worry is killing you and in the end, your chances of being happy and therefore ....

Focus on you Tad. The rest will take care of itself, and until you believe that, you will be unattractive and generally no fun to be around. At a subconscious level if nothing else.



AJ

[tadpole1025]

Thanks Antonia, Cadet, 25 and AJ.

Special thanks to 25 for ripping me a new one.

Yes, it was a positive baby step and nothing more. It was a baby step in the sense that we actually had a conversation....a normal one. But.....that was all...just a conversation.

This is all so hard.

I'll keep you posted.

Now, I'm off to re-read 25's post!

Tad

[dl443322]

Tad, listen, I know this is difficult. And we were all in your shoes at one point. Different stories, different people, but all LBS's.

I know dbing seems contra to what you think you should be doing. You feel you should be holding on to whatever thread is tying you to your wife because if you let go, then she is gone.

Here's the thing. By her leaving, she is telling you that she wants space. Now she may think that you are the enemy and your marriage was horrible and blah, blah, blah. Just words. But the underlying action is that she feels something is wrong. Doesnt quite know what, so blames the person closest to her. If I get rid of him, then I'll be happy. And then when that doesnt work, she will try something else.

If you dont leave her to figure this out on her own, I can tell you two things. One - she will feel you are not hearing her. What is wrong with Tad? I keep telling him that we are done and he keeps hanging on. He is waiting around and accepting whatever little crumbs I throw him.
He is just not hearing me. He doesnt listen to me. It's been that way for years. More blah, blah, blah.

Now I'm not saying that your marriage might be saved if you let her go. I cant predict that. But I can tell you two things that will happen. You will get saved and become who you were meant to be and she will have to figure out for herself (if she chooses to) what is wrong.

From a dbing standpoint you want her to see you differently. And it doesnt matter if she never sees you, she will find out. You want to show her a new Tad, a different Tad. Someone strong, confident. self assured. Someone who is GAL and moving forward.

What happens is that you have worked on you. You have changed and grown. So that if she ever chooses to reconnect, you will have done the work needed to deal with that.

Holding on is not the answer.

Do something different, Tad.

Let her blow in the wind for now. You take your journey. Let her take hers. If it's meant to be in the future that you look towards each other, it needs to be with two different people than you are today. Otherwise you wind up right back here.

You can do this. Let her go.

[tadpole1025]

Thanks Brooklyn.

What you say does makes sense....just so damn hard.

I'm down today, but a little better than I have been.

I want so much to send her the letter on Tuesday for our anniversary, but I know it will be seen as pursuit. NOT sending it would be "doing something different."

I am almost 11 months post bomb and 9 months since her move out date. I foolishly thought that we would be making strides by now.

I still pray to God everyday to soften her heart and to let me do the right things. Sometimes I feel like he is ignoring me.

I still find it so hard to believe that someone who you shared so much with for so long and was your best friend and lover for so long can turn on you.

I am trying so hard, but sometime it is so hard to try.

Have a great week everyone.

Tad

[tadpole1025]

I just picked up S16 from her house. She actually came out to the car and gave a bag of fruits and vegetables to me to take home. These are the actions I just don't understand. Why would she even do this?

I guess I'll never know.

I simply thanked her and told her that I was here if she just wanted to talk.

She said:

"Well thank you for the conversation the other night and keeping off the subject of us."

Can I ask: why they dont want to talk about "us?" Is it because of denial or guilt or both or something else?

I still believe things could be so much different if she would just stop talking to OM. He is like an addiction. And quite honestly, such a frickin goon.

As you know, I've written W a letter for our anniversary on Tuesday. I don't think I will send it, but I have to send it to someone so, I will post it here. Before you hit me with a 2X4, I just want to say that I KNOW that it sounds desperate and pursuing. I have not sent it either. I was just writing from my heart a few nights ago. It is rather personal and kind of sappy and I apologize in advance.

Ug. Here it is:

--------------------------------------------------

W,

Today is a very sad day for me. I’m basically in a lose/lose situation. If I didn’t contact you today, it might be seen as insensitive. If I did contact you, it may be seen as pursuing. Well, I’m taking my chances. This day will always be significant to me. There isn’t a day that goes by when I don’t think of you. I can still remember the feeling I got the first time I looked into those big dark beautiful eyes. I remember our “dating” days and the early years. Life took over and we got comfortable and took each other for granted. I worked my a$$ off all the time. Not because I wanted to, but because I needed to for us and our wonderful little family. Basically, life happened and we got too busy for us. It happens, but……it can be corrected. It happens to many couples that have been married a long time. True love never really dies though.

Twenty-six years ago today, we took vows before God to love and care for each other and be there for each other in sickness/health and good times and bad until death do us part. I continue to stand and believe in you and us. I believe in the sanctity of marriage. I want so badly the chance to read the vows I wrote before you and everyone. We have been married for 9,490 days. In just 45 days, you want to put an end to it. I don’t know why you are so angry and hate me so much, but I’m willing to do anything to make it right. We need to talk things through. I’m down to my last gasp. Take your time that you need and work on you and I will work on me. Hopefully then, we can work on us. I realize that right now you don’t want to, but why not see where it goes? If you think about it, we really have nothing more to lose, but everything to gain.

I am very proud of you and all you have accomplished. I hope to be right behind you soon when I start college after the first of the year.

You deserve someone who can meet your needs and loves spending time with you. I can be that man. I’ve spent the last several months working on me, going to counseling, learning what I did wrong and what I can do better, building my relationship with God and our sons, learning how to communicate better and learning what it takes to be a better husband and dad. Let me show you the man I can be. It will take time, patience and work, but I believe that you/us are worth it.

I’m just asking for a delay. Please don’t rush this. Let’s just keep things how they are for now and work on ourselves and us. Let’s rebuild our friendship like you originally wanted to do. Let us do things together every now and then and communicate. I’m just asking for a chance to show you.

I know that I made some mistakes during our marriage and at the beginning of this mess. I also know that I am still making some, but I am getting better.

On our last anniversary when we went out to dinner, I told you with tears in my eyes how sorry I was that I couldn’t afford to take you to Hawaii. I meant it. There is so much that I would love to have done for you, but it just didn’t work out. It makes me sad. I would love a chance to try it again. You deserve it.

You are the most amazing person I have ever known and have been my best friend for more than 26 years. You are a wonderful mother to our children. I have so much that I want to say and talk about, but you don’t want to hear it. Please talk to me. I’m here for you to talk to without criticism and anger. I mean that, but we must be open and honest with each other when you are ready. Many marriages can be saved. Ours is one of them if given the time.

It makes me sad to think of the way we are right now. It makes me sad that you hate me so much and are so angry towards me. It also makes me sad that you have a picture of me in your office that is covered up with a post-it-note. Yet, you have a picture of OM on your phone and computer. You say that he is not a factor, but he is. All I’ve ever asked is for you to quit communicating with him and work on us. I’ve been asking you that since October. It also hurts me that you were bragging about him to your own kids and showing them pictures of him before you even moved out. It is like an addiction for you. I feel like you are just trying to totally erase me and us. Sometimes, I’m actually afraid to talk to you because I don’t want to say the wrong thing and upset you.

I would just like a chance to save what we had and I know in my heart that the best is yet to come if you give me the chance. I have faith in you, me, us and God. We can do things on your timeframe. Just please don’t give up on us.

I’m always here for you with an open door and an open heart.

Please grant me a delay.

Loving you always,

Tad

--------------------------------------------------

Like I said, I KNOW it says a lot of things that it shouldn't. I just had to send it to someone.

Fire when ready.

Have a great week everyone. Tomorrow starts week #2 of my new job.

Tad

[irishblessings]

Tad- I am so sorry for this pain. Last September was our 25th and the day went with no acknowledgement from him - it was a very tough day. Since that time - he has gotten his divorce and has moved on into this crazy life he created. Words from me will have no impact on him - so I keep them to myself.

I guess I am saying this because I am finally getting to the point where I know what I want for myself in the future. I know who and how I want to be. And I want this with or without him. Your dreams have to become yours for awhile. She is not there right now. If you get busy working on your path - away from the toxins in her life right now - you may reach your point sooner rather than later.

I have this secret fantasy that I become the best version of myself - and one day XH shows up full of regret and remorse. The great thing about this fantasy is Iit doesn't matter if reconciliation occurs or not because I will be able to offer my very best to someone who wants me.

I would encourage you to not send the letter. Whether you acknowledge the date or not - she KNOWS how you feel about her and your marriage. You deserve healing.

[25yearsmlc]

I just picked up S16 from her house. She actually came out to the car and gave a bag of fruits and vegetables to me to take home. These are the actions I just don't understand. Why would she even do this?

I guess I'll never know.


A woman with the screen name "rysmom" here, got some some veggies from her h. She wonders the same thing you wonder. He left her in 07 and lives with OW...openly. You think it means he secretly wants her to pursue him? I don't. I think she's wasting her time doing nothing but waiting. Not really GAL and not making herself a better partner to be with...

Here where I live, we have 5 fruit trees that went bonkers this year and producted a boat load of fruit. We have given the neighbors tons of bags of fruit and I don't want to sleep with or marry them...it's just a gesture and a way to not waste food.

I simply thanked her and told her that I was here if she just wanted to talk.


SIGH...more pursuit. You couldn't just thank her? really?

She said:

"Well thank you for the conversation the other night and keeping off the subject of us."

THIS IS CLARITY FROM HER. IF YOU IGNORE THIS B/C OF YOUR NEEDS, THEN YOU ARE PUTTING YOUR NEEDS AHEAD OF HER. HOW WILL SHE SEE THAT?

Can I ask: why they dont want to talk about "us?" Is it because of denial or guilt or both or something else?


Makes NO difference "why".

What do you KNOW? You know she does NOT want to talk about the r.

Maybe it bores her. Maybe she thinks you haven't changed or won't.

You radiate neediness and pain, and I cannot imagine that being pleasant to be around...and you do blame her for all of it. Which is Just not attractive.

I don't know what else there is to say.

I posted a long post to you but it's like you skimmed it for "secrets" to get her back but

the only way to do that--- IF IT IS POSSIBLE--- is to back off

but you don't want to do that.

You want us to tell you THE sentence or THE action to take to get her back.

The secret is there is no secret.

Back off. Leave her alone. GAL...for real.

I still believe things could be so much different if she would just stop talking to OM. He is like an addiction. And quite honestly, such a frickin goon.

Do you see how your own behavior is addict like? So I guess you have that in common.


As you know, I've written W a letter for our anniversary on Tuesday. I don't think I will send it, but I have to send it to someone so, I will post it here. Before you hit me with a 2X4, I just want to say that I KNOW that it sounds desperate and pursuing. I have not sent it either. I was just writing from my heart a few nights ago. It is rather personal and kind of sappy and I apologize in advance.

Ug. Here it is:

Do not send this. Just don't. I don't want to spend the time saying why b/c if you don't know, then this is so pointless...
suffice to say your goal will be further from you if you send this, not closer.

I suggested a ONE SENTENCE note IF ANYTHING...and this is what you want to write? All about you and your pain??

The woman just thanked you for NOT talking about your r...so you want to send her THIS???

Geez...just stop it.

--------------------------------------------------

W,

Today is a very sad day for me. I’m basically in a lose/lose situation. If I didn’t contact you today, it might be seen as insensitive. If I did contact you, it may be seen as pursuing. Well, I’m taking my chances. This day will always be significant to me. There isn’t a day that goes by when I don’t think of you. I can still remember the feeling I got the first time I looked into those big dark beautiful eyes. I remember our “dating” days and the early years. Life took over and we got comfortable and took each other for granted. I worked my a$$ off all the time. Not because I wanted to, but because I needed to for us and our wonderful little family. Basically, life happened and we got too busy for us. It happens, but……it can be corrected. It happens to many couples that have been married a long time. True love never really dies though.

Twenty-six years ago today, we took vows before God to love and care for each other and be there for each other in sickness/health and good times and bad until death do us part. I continue to stand and believe in you and us. I believe in the sanctity of marriage. I want so badly the chance to read the vows I wrote before you and everyone. We have been married for 9,490 days. In just 45 days, you want to put an end to it. I don’t know why you are so angry and hate me so much, but I’m willing to do anything to make it right. We need to talk things through. I’m down to my last gasp. Take your time that you need and work on you and I will work on me. Hopefully then, we can work on us. I realize that right now you don’t want to, but why not see where it goes? If you think about it, we really have nothing more to lose, but everything to gain.

I am very proud of you and all you have accomplished. I hope to be right behind you soon when I start college after the first of the year.

You deserve someone who can meet your needs and loves spending time with you. I can be that man. I’ve spent the last several months working on me, going to counseling, learning what I did wrong and what I can do better, building my relationship with God and our sons, learning how to communicate better and learning what it takes to be a better husband and dad. Let me show you the man I can be. It will take time, patience and work, but I believe that you/us are worth it.

I’m just asking for a delay. Please don’t rush this. Let’s just keep things how they are for now and work on ourselves and us. Let’s rebuild our friendship like you originally wanted to do. Let us do things together every now and then and communicate. I’m just asking for a chance to show you.

I know that I made some mistakes during our marriage and at the beginning of this mess. I also know that I am still making some, but I am getting better.

On our last anniversary when we went out to dinner, I told you with tears in my eyes how sorry I was that I couldn’t afford to take you to Hawaii. I meant it. There is so much that I would love to have done for you, but it just didn’t work out. It makes me sad. I would love a chance to try it again. You deserve it.

You are the most amazing person I have ever known and have been my best friend for more than 26 years. You are a wonderful mother to our children. I have so much that I want to say and talk about, but you don’t want to hear it. Please talk to me. I’m here for you to talk to without criticism and anger. I mean that, but we must be open and honest with each other when you are ready. Many marriages can be saved. Ours is one of them if given the time.

It makes me sad to think of the way we are right now. It makes me sad that you hate me so much and are so angry towards me. It also makes me sad that you have a picture of me in your office that is covered up with a post-it-note. Yet, you have a picture of OM on your phone and computer. You say that he is not a factor, but he is. All I’ve ever asked is for you to quit communicating with him and work on us. I’ve been asking you that since October. It also hurts me that you were bragging about him to your own kids and showing them pictures of him before you even moved out. It is like an addiction for you. I feel like you are just trying to totally erase me and us. Sometimes, I’m actually afraid to talk to you because I don’t want to say the wrong thing and upset you.

I would just like a chance to save what we had and I know in my heart that the best is yet to come if you give me the chance. I have faith in you, me, us and God. We can do things on your timeframe. Just please don’t give up on us.

I’m always here for you with an open door and an open heart.

Please grant me a delay.

Loving you always,

Tad

--------------------------------------------------

Like I said, I KNOW it says a lot of things that it shouldn't. I just had to send it to someone.

Fire when ready.

Have a great week everyone. Tomorrow starts week #2 of my new job.

Tad

[tadpole1025]

Thanks Irish and 25.

THIS IS CLARITY FROM HER. IF YOU IGNORE THIS B/C OF YOUR NEEDS, THEN YOU ARE PUTTING YOUR NEEDS AHEAD OF HER. HOW WILL SHE SEE THAT?

Yes, I know. I just wonder if we'll ever be able to talk.

25, I didn't skim it for "secrets." Matter of fact, I've read it many times. I come here to vent and update and get some insight if I can. I KNOW there is no secret formula. If there was, none of us would be here.

Do not send this. Just don't. I don't want to spend the time saying why b/c if you don't know, then this is so pointless...
suffice to say your goal will be further from you if you send this, not closer.

I'm not going to. Like I said, I just wanted someone to see it since I am not sending this to her.

I suggested a ONE SENTENCE note IF ANYTHING...and this is what you want to write? All about you and your pain??

Yes you did. This was written before your suggestion.

[25yearsmlc]

tad,

I don't mean to be a hard a$$ with you, believe it or not. Sorry if that post hurt your feelings. But I hope it prevented other hurt you'd get had you sent it.

You asked us for feedback about the letter. Remember? Well...you got some feedback.

I just want to save you from making a mistake at this time, b/c you have little room for them. (Not to say that if the div goes thru, all is lost. All is not lost. Several WAWs take a 2nd look at their former spouses when they have the freedom to do so.

Right now, she feels trapped and forced. More pursuit from you just reinforces that trapped feeling. Makes her want to run away...faster

Your w knows your anniversary is near. She knows you know.

BUT as of NOW, your W wants NO R TALK. Your letter was 100% all R talk. So that's that. No brainer.

SIDENOTE---someday ---sooo- NOT NOW--If you feel you must write her a SINCERE letter of apology or regret, or pride or love or whatever, do it after the div is final.


We know You want to delay the divorce! We get it. That's why you wrote the letter now AND why it is = pursuit and is therefore tactical. The letter is Not an expression of heartfelt love.
Expressions of heart felt love don't have tactical goals...
That's another reason the letter would not have attained your goal.


Also, never start a letter talking about your pain. IT stops the reader from wanting to read anymore...

Another reason was the letter was quite UNpersuasive is b/c nothing in the letter demonstrates

why or how MARRIAGE TO YOU today, and from this day forward, would be better or different than when she left.

This KEY ELEMENT is...KEY!! It has been hammered and hammered but hasn't sunk in yet.

But If you and the dynamics w/her are no different
than she won't have a reason to return AND even if she did come home,

what's to prevent her bolting again? IF you have changed, what external signs are there of that to HER?

One conversation is not enough to prove change in you, obviously. Build on those.

Change + time = change she can believe in.


In speech or writing--
Brevity is powerful. If only politicians realized this! The few who do, are well remembered and quoted. They project clarity and confidence and strength.

The ones who ramble on, get off message, rant, lecture, etc. are misunderstood and misquoted-OR- the only thing they say that is remembered - is what offended.
PLUS--
She does not want to hear about the M.
That's what anniversaries are about; i.e., the m.

Also-
Comparing yourself to OM will backfire. It forces her to deny him and or to defend and advocate for him. Do you want that to happen? You want to hear that?? Your pain from that would be self inflicted...

Tad, You do have free will.
Make truly different choices and start feeling better.

Honestly, I think that is the main thing that will help you.

So, if you want to VENT HERE, then VENT HERE...but you said you were thinking about sending it..and you said you wanted "feedback".

Hope we stopped added pain.

Life will get better IF YOU LET IT. I swear. But yeah, you have to buy a ticket to win the lottery.

Hugs buddy.

[seeking answers]

Can I ask: why they dont want to talk about "us?" Is it because of denial or guilt or both or something else?

Tad, they don't want to talk about 'us' because in their mind there is no 'us'. For you to talk to her about your R creates pressure. MLCer's can't take pressure. If they come near and feel pressure they turn and run even farther away.

The bag of fruit and veggies may have been her way of showing appreciation for you leaving 'us' out of the conversation. That is only speculation though, as we'll never know what their intentions are because MLCer's are a confused lot.

MLC takes as long as it takes. There is no way to know how long it will be. One thing is for sure though. It will take long enough for you to turn your attention to yourself and work on those things that stung in what she has said. Not for her, not as a tactic to win her back, but to make you the best Tad you can possibly be.

You're so worried about the divorce, and I understand your fear, that you keep showing her more of the same old Tad that she ran away from. It hasn't worked for you, but you keep doing the same things. That is the definition of insanity, Tad. Doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. I know how crazy this can make us, but we are the only ones that can stop letting it.

You want to know if she thinks of you. Probably, yes. Ask yourself this though. Have you given her a different Tad to think about or the same Tad she ran away from which would keep justifying, in her mind, what she did?

I don't know if you've read any of the 'marriage restoration success stories' that are on this board, it seems there is one similar theme that runs through them. It isn't until the LBS drops the rope all together that the MLCer takes a look back. That sometimes includes a D Tad. Ask yourself what is your W going to see when/if she looks back? Is she going to see a man that has let what happened defeat him or is she going to see a strong, confident (not arrogant) man who moved forward despite what happened?

You are the only one who has the power to change your perspective, Tad. Turn it toward working on you. If your W is determined to get her divorce, there is nothing you can do to stop it. It does not mean that you stop working on you. It doesn't mean that all is lost. It doesn't mean that you'll never love or be loved again. It may even be by your W when she finds herself and finds out the grass wasn't greener. What shape will your lawn be in when she looks back, Tad? That can only happen when you let her go and tend to it for yourself.

You keep asking the same questions and we keep answering the same way. I not sure what you're looking for Tad. Is it hope? That can only come from inside you. You can do nothing and still have hope, but why not let the situation give you gifts as you move forward instead of only despair? We can't give them to you my friend, those are for you to find.

No 2 x 4s on the letter Tad. I understand your need to say what's in your heart. Just keep it for yourself and don't send it because really, there isn't anything in there that your W doesn't already know or will find out eventually. At this point though she will just view it as more of the same. Pressure which piles on to the guilt she already feels, which cause her to turn your words into reasons to run some more.

Leave her to her journey. Your interference will only slow it down. Yours is what you should be focusing on. We will be here to walk beside you as long you want us to be.

(((Hugs)))