I've read that feelings of "guilt" are self-serving, and one never recovers if one is motivated by guilt alone; but feelings of remorse are motivated by true knowledge that one hurt another, and THEIR path to recovery of their identity/self is only going to come if they feel remorse.
I feel like there is remorse in what she said. Just my 2 cents.
Antonia, Thanks I will probably respond in a fashion that you suggested.......it is the part about being open to talking about it if she wants to.
I am not sure I want to hear what she has to say if she did want to talk.
Your comment on remorse and guilt is interesting.....I was talking with another board member today and I recall reading something about the 4 stages/types of remorse somewhere in the archives.
As I remember it, it goes something like this.....
I am sorry I got caught.
I am sorry I caused you pain.
I am sorry I caused you pain and I feel bad about it.
I am sorry I caused you pain and I understand why you are hurt.
Not sure if that is right, if someone else knows what it is exactly, please post it.
I think my XW is somewhere between 2 and 3.
I think that is all she is capable of right now.
I think she still has time "in the oven" still.....she is not done yet.
Cheers
Formerly "missherlove"
Me49 XW49 M17 T19 S16 D20
Expose yourself to your deepest fear; after that, fear has no power, and the fear of freedom shrinks and vanishes. You are free.
I have been following your thread even though I've been "laying low" this summer.
GAG, I was wondering about you the other day.......so good to hear from you. Sometimes layin' low is good.
I hope things are well with you!!!
Originally Posted By: goodattitudegirl
Do you know what XW wrote to your D? Have you talked to D's therapist to ask about the best way to handle that with D?
GAG
No, I do not know what she wrote her. The letter is with me, I will give it to her tonight. We are going to a High School football game tonight.......FUN!!! Can't believe she is in HIGH SCHOOL!!!
Anyway, I am not sure how she will handle whatever her mother has written to her. Typically my D14's reaction to her mother's attempts to connect are "TOO LITTLE, TOO LATE".
My D14 does ask the question aloud to me......."Does she get it??? Does she realize what she has done/is doing??"
Up until today, my answer has been, "I don't know".
Fortunately, my D14 has an appt. with the therapist next week.
Formerly "missherlove"
Me49 XW49 M17 T19 S16 D20
Expose yourself to your deepest fear; after that, fear has no power, and the fear of freedom shrinks and vanishes. You are free.
MHL I do hope that what I am going to write does not come across as judgmental. i think you have done a terrific job of rebuilding your life. But, and there is always a but, i remember very well when you first joined these boards, as a very committed stander and a very hurt man.
You have moved on fast, and could teach many of us old timers a thing or two about getting a life. What concerns me however is those feelings for your wife that you expressed so eloquently. From your daughter's response, I suspect that you have been nursing more hurt than you are probably admitting to yourself.
What lessons are you learning from all of this? Life is not simply the avoidance of hurt - interesting that you have that as your strapline. Maybe your wife is not sincere, maybe you have moved on fully, but it concerns me a little at how fast your feelings for your wife appear to have gone away.
Even if you cannot re-open the wounds, it is vital that your daughter learns to forgive. People we love hurt us and we hurt them, that, sadly is a part of life. Sometimes between a man and a woman it cannot be repaired, but a child only has one mother, and doesn't get another shot at having a second.
Our children matter more than anything else in this. that is what the MLCer forgets, and what we must not. You are a good man and will do what you believe to be right.
Well, first of all, without digging too deep into it, nice to hear an apology I would think.
My opinion for how you should respond would be simply, I got your letter, thank you for writing it. I appreciate the apology or something along those lines.
You asking where this came from - you might not like the answer. Best to let her tell you when she is ready, if you care to hear it.
M, you've come a long way. We all deal with our pain in different ways. Your way works for you.
I dont think you really have to make any kind of a decision about anything right now.
Your xw will let you know if she has anything further to say, regardless of whether you are in a relatinship or not.
Sometimes it is best to just let things unfold. You will know in your heart, without a doubt, what you should do.
I think your xw is going through her journey and this is a step on it. She is going to feel some terible lows coming to grips with what she has done. Still your job to let her walk it.
I keep coming back to even if I was not in this other relationship I am not sure I would want to dig a little because of the potential for pain.
The truth is, I asked the question. But based on just your first post it is obvious there is some desire.
Now whether it is worth opening up for it. Is another question.
In a lot of ways. I feel we have delt with the emotional side of this in similar ways. I can also "box up."
Can it stay boxed forever? I'm not so sure.
I guess the other question I have. Is this the time to even open that box at all?
Perhaps not.
It is a nice gesture on her part. I think it has to feel good for you to hear this.
But for NOW. It's all it is.
A simple reply like you mentioned is probably appropriate.
Maybe I am just self reflecting. I just keep thinking about what is kept in the box. When to face it. What will it mean? TBH. For me. Not even sure what is in it.
But you have stated fear in opening it back up. So it must be something.
Like I said. It's a hell of a position.
Be well man. Enjoy BIG Friday
BITS
Happiness is not something ready made. It comes from your own actions.
I think that Brooklyn and Beatrice have given you good advice. The MLC'er does not like it when you move forward from where they left you. You have certainly moved. Your XW is testing you, to see what your response will be. I believe that you need to lead the way as far as your XW and your D14 is concerned. You must forgive your XW, NO EXPECTATIONS. I think as a minimum you can thank her and forgive, but anything more than that would not be warranted. She has used words not actions and you can use words not actions. Mirroring what she has done. She has not completed her journey yet, nor have you completed yours.
As far as opening the box, well I agree that is something you must do at some point in time. But I thought you had shut the door on your XW? I believe that right now you can not go back and open it back up again so easily.
But you can forgive her. And hopefully she will at least someday rebuild the R with D14
I don't know if this is going to make sense because it happened for me so far past when it should have which is why I am saying this to you.
I am not speaking about my M. I am speaking about my first one.
The only way I can explain it to myself is that our emotions. Our memories. Good and bad. gain such gravity through time. As and when we expereince them. The loger we share time with someone tha more gravity accrues to them. It is compounded trememdously. I hesitate to put a mathmatical formula to it but i would say it is not linear. It increases at an increasing rate as we move through our M.
They really do.
It clusters around our heart like stardust pulled into a star.
They gain such gravity, emotional gravity, from our experience and time with our beloved that it becomes a force that cannot be ignored.
It cannot be shut away and forgotten.
When you do that it will always be tugging on you. Throwing you off course. Making you uneasy when you don't even know what or why the uneasiness comes.
The walking wounded...
How to heal?
When you acknowledge it. Look at it full on. Let its force have its way. Surrender to it.
It loses its power.
It IS ok for you to say
"I love my wife heart and soul and I always will. I will cherish and respect those memories and I will not let this thing that has come to diminish my life, destroy this that I know to be true
for me."
Try it. And see how it feels. The big bad monster of "what was and what might have been or may be yet to come"
Doesn't look so scary.
My dear friend. There is so much joy and love in you I know from knowing you.
Do not kill it. Do not hide it away in a box. Do not be afraid of it. Embrace it.
It is the way out of that dark place where you have hidden it.
This question for me made me realize what a burden I carried.
When I think of my M and the years and the memories do I feel pain or joy?
Which answer adds value to your life and which takes away?
It really is up to you create or destroy.
My goal is to some day be the person my dog thinks I am
It's wonderful that you have gotten an apology from XW. At the very least it is a peek out of the tunnel.
I agree with Cadet that your XW has dipped her toe in to temperature check.
I don't think you need to give much thought about whether you'd reconcile or not at this point. I read nothing in the message that she sent you that she was thinking along those lines.
Personally, I would be thrilled if my H sent a message like that because I would take it like he at least had started to come out of himself enough to start to survey the destruction his choices had caused.
I agree with the others that a short note accepting her apology, forgiving her, if you truly can, and thanking her for it would be the way to handle this at this time. It is the groundwork that is laid for whatever future R you decide to have with XW.
From there, you will be able to view her actions without really investing your heart again. As this unfolds further you'll be able to judge whether or not she is truly waking up and willing to do the work it would take for you to even consider reconciling. You have a lot of time to come to a decision, MHL.
I truly hope this is the beginning of the bridge that helps your D and XW start to rebuild a relationship with.
As far as guarantees that something like this would never happen again IF you were to R with your X, well you don't get one, none of us do with any R...
You're a good man MHL, and I wish you all the best.
Um, hello? Can we get some applause for this GIFT??
Did you see it? It's a genuine APOLOGY FROM A WAW.... Clap clap clap--
what?!!? We thought they didn't exist...
So MHL
Of course this knocks on the door of your heart. Of course it does. Part of you, at least, is reeling. Too complex to address all that now.
So here are the two things that leap to mind when I read your thread.
First, she asked for nothing in the letter, not even a cup of coffee to "talk".
To me, that is a great sign. She knows she is no position to ask for anything but maybe that you not burn her letter.
I believe she wants to begin her journey to a better place within and part of that is making amends.
I truly believe she IS sorry, and at least to some extent, she gets it.
And she gets that she wasn't "ok in the head" for some time back then...
So kudos to her for the introspection this took
and the humbling nature of writing anything like this ever.
You know, it's SHE who could have been the one to say "too little too late" and used that to justify not reaching out at all.
Which brings me to my 2nd concern. YOUR D14.
Such a tender age (my youngest is that age and just began high school too).
Mothers matter. Forgiveness matters. Your d will be watching what YOU do even more than usual. Reassure her as much as possible that your w did/does indeed love her. And I KNOW your does. I can't imagine a mother not loving her 14 y/o d...(Hmm, literally I cannot imagine it so maybe I'm off base there...)
I for one say "Thank you God, and thank you MHL EXw, for showing that it can be done."
It's not the first time I've seen it however. Of The 3 others I know (yes, 3 WAS's who later called their exs) 2 simply felt real remorse
enough time had passed and the dust had settled, that they called their ex's to say "really sorry I hurt you"...
I don't think either of them wanted (or expected) to reconcile so much as to reach out and say that they now "got it."
The other one did want to reconcile and he reached out and they did reconcile. Both sitches happen, obviously.
PS fwiw, my ex bil left my older sister 9 years ago, w/3 kids after 22 yrs of m. He broke her heart. My sister worked full time the whole m, as a nurse AND put him thru law school.
She is a fun attractive woman who is kind and loving to all. And she is beautiful. He was a fool, period. He was always a taker. Funny and smart, but selfish and remarkably self centered. You Get the picture?
so he leaves...she sobs, some years pass and they both remarry.
Shockingly, He's NOT happy with His "new" wife, whereas my sister is happier with her 'new h" of 6 years, than she could ever be with her uber tense arrogant 'anger management candidate" h...
Here's a vignette.
when the family dog was dying, my sister and her ex h didn't think having their new OPs around would make it comfortable for their children so
they each asked their new spouses to be scarce. My NEW BIL, the one who "Gets" my sister, was out the door (of his own house) without a word of complaint while my sister's exh came over.
Together, the "original" family thanked the dog, caressed and loved her and the vet came over and they all said goodbye and cried.
To his credit, my ex bil then took the dog and "handled" that part of the event. For awhile, they felt close to each other but it was bittersweet.
Later, I heard that my ex bil had to stay in a hotel for 2 nights b/c his new wife was furious that SHE had not been invited for the dog's departure.
He called my sister (HIS EX W) and shared this with Her..(he sought comfort from her of course...his new w hurt his feelings...sheesh..but hey-we don't kick a guy when he's down right?)
Anyhow my fav part is this.....
My sister asked him if he recalled what THEIR mc had told them about unconditional love and her efforts...and if he ever thought about it.
Ex bil said "Yes I remember it. And I think of it every single day of my life."
A part of me is very sad for him but a part of me is righteously satisfied with the karma of all this. Fact is
Most WAS's don't ever tell the LBSer what they really think about their choices, later on.
My sister never "lost it" with her ex, she was dignified and showed a quiet strength throughout her ordeal. Maybe it made her more approachable.
I'll never know. Even though my sister went thru hell and her kids were deeply hurt
she's truly much happier with her h now than she ever would have been with her tenstion filled hair trigger tempered ex...
he did her a favor.
MHL, good luck on this part of the journey and with your precious d.
Know that no matter what else, This was a good thing. Savor it a bit.
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
